FYI. Dealership service depts.

[Jacko3]

Well said! Very nice advise.

[SVTCOBRA]

I think you have the misconception that folks on this board think techs are greasy rednecks....My neighbor is a BMW tech. One of my best friends is a retired mechanic now teaching at a local community college.

I think you are preaching to the choir.

But, it's always fun to rant, so rant on!!

[soul_hfk]

what did u not understand steve ? the part that if its under warranty or the part where i fix it or have a freind that can?

heres something that doesn't make sense how kids are fighting and give up theres lifes in the middle east and dont make 90-120 $ an hour hell them people building the car are lucky if they make that a week.... im 1 who doesnt think its worth what your getting and im not saying your wage cause your most likely getting 20-30$ an hr


Modified by soul_hfk at 11:14 AM 11/7/2008

[awdjdmtalon]

what did u not understand steve ? the part that if its under warranty or the part where i fix it or have a freind that can?

heres something that doesn't make sense how kids are fighting and give up theres lifes in the middle east and dont make 90-120 $ an hour hell them people building the car are lucky if they make that a week.... im 1 who doesnt think its worth what your getting and im not saying your wage cause your most likely getting 20-30$ an hr

Modified by soul_hfk at 11:14 AM 11/7/2008

Ok lets look at this now that you bought it up.

I served my time in the Army. I did 10 yrs. 4 of which werein an anit terrorism unit. SO don't preach to me about our boys and girls serving in the middle east.

No they do not make tons of money. After 10 yrs and as a Sgt. I was making 32k a year. That is nothing. They don't do it for the $$$$. Some do it for the college $$$. But not the pay.

Most of them do it out of patriotism and a strong love and devotion for our country. nuf said on that.

Now that the people building the cars makeing less then $120 a week. Highly doubtful. Japan has a very competative free market. And they make a good wage. So I think you are way off base on that.

As for my wage. Well I'm not going to discuss that. But lets say I make a decient living, for where I live.

I can tell you that techs can make between $12 and $25+ an hour. But we not hourly emplyees. We get payed on what we do, not the time we are here. If there are no cars to work on, and I stand around for 8 hrs. Guess what. I make ZERO DOLLARS! So it is not like sitting in an office pushing paper and having a guarenteed set paycheck a week.

So don;t think that tech are there making a killing off your oil change.

[zozoka1212]

I understand Soul.

Here is how I see. The dealership rate is high. Not because how much the tech guy makes it is because how much the dealership puts a top of that.

Think this way.

I am in a business with complete machining. Commercial and automotive. We have over 2000 costumers some of them are huge costumers. Include Nissan, GM, Unicor(US army parts) Toledo, just to name a few. My shop has some rate variation. It is from $50 to 90/hr. Set up people makes around 25-30/hr. Operators makes around 16-24/hr. Supervisors make around 30-34/hr. Maint. crew makes 24-35/hr. Manager makes around 150k a year.

With all these the owner still have a huge chunk left. Obviously otherwise he would not do it.

Lets talk about equipments. We have over 20 spot welders, 5 laser cutters, over 100 cnc mills and lathes, Welding robots, Painting robots, etc. I think we can say the investments in tools and others are bigger here then at most likely in any dealers. Even the maint. have those huge Snap on toolboxes with full of snap on tools. If I won't forget I snap some pictures next week. They are huge. All paid for them.

I know you think yes because we have a steady production line and we always do the same. Well not. We have over 2000 costumers. Some only put in orders once a year maybe less for 200-300 pcs. We do it and we have profit on it. We set it up we machine the thing weld it paint it ,etc whatever it takes to finish it and it would cost you not more the $90/hr. To go up to 90 is really rare here. We seen daily people come in and place orders and they drop there jaws how much we asking for it. The best part is you see the same guy coming in happy 3-4 months later and ask you if we can do something new for him a new project.

So why is it 90 at the dealers? Where the money from the left over between the tech's hourly wages and the 90 bucks. Utilities?

You don't want to know how much we pay in the shop for utilities. For the laser cutters we had to get new generators, cables because the normal indusrial type could not handle it. So you can imagine how much they sucking.

I know 99% of the people have no problem about your wage they have problem with the money on the top of that.

So please guys don't get offended by costumers. They are not pissed at you they are pissed at your dealership.

All the works should be categorized at the dealer with different rates. If something is more difficulte it shold be higher. If something simple then it should cost less. Not talking about oil changes but some basic like changing out cabin air filter and stuff like that.

I hope that helps to clear it a littlebit. We all appriciate what you guys do it just doesn't seem to be fair to pay $90 or more.

zozo

[Jacko3]

Ok lets look at this now that you bought it up.

I served my time in the Army. I did 10 yrs. 4 of which werein an anit terrorism unit. SO don't preach to me about our boys and girls serving in the middle east.

No they do not make tons of money. After 10 yrs and as a Sgt. I was making 32k a year. That is nothing. They don't do it for the $$$$. Some do it for the college $$$. But not the pay.

Most of them do it out of patriotism and a strong love and devotion for our country. nuf said on that.

Now that the people building the cars makeing less then $120 a week. Highly doubtful. Japan has a very competative free market. And they make a good wage. So I think you are way off base on that.

As for my wage. Well I'm not going to discuss that. But lets say I make a decient living, for where I live.

I can tell you that techs can make between $12 and $25+ an hour. But we not hourly emplyees. We get payed on what we do, not the time we are here. If there are no cars to work on, and I stand around for 8 hrs. Guess what. I make ZERO DOLLARS! So it is not like sitting in an office pushing paper and having a guarenteed set paycheck a week.

So don;t think that tech are there making a killing off your oil change.

awdjdmtalon:

I also served in the US Air Force for 4 years. I had a blast and a great 4 years. They paid for all my colege and education and i don't regret being a member of the Armed Forces one bit. Though I miss the team work, camaraderie, and the free food at the chow halls or mess. I also miss being able to work on my car with free tolls at the hobby shop, and I also miss buying all the relatively cheap but high quality stuff at the military base exchanges. E.g, shoes that go for over $100 can be found at the military base exchange for about $50. The same with watches and many other goods.

Anyway, I don't see an issue with the dealership charging those high rates so long as they are not based on too much greed. I think I have outlined above in an earlier commentary, how people can get by on these sort of things.

[fbpem1]

This thread was brought to my attention a little bit ago and i figured i would chime in on this. i know i'm new to this forum and such but i am not new to working at a dealer been doing it for quite a while in fact with infiniti for quite a while.

what did u not understand steve ? the part that if its under warranty or the part where i fix it or have a freind that can?

heres something that doesn't make sense how kids are fighting and give up theres lifes in the middle east and dont make 90-120 $ an hour hell them people building the car are lucky if they make that a week.... im 1 who doesnt think its worth what your getting and im not saying your wage cause your most likely getting 20-30$ an hr

Modified by soul_hfk at 11:14 AM 11/7/2008

Now you go way off in left field about the military aspect of things granted yes a good tech makes way more money than your average military guy but heres the thing we don't get the perks they do at all, housing allownace, amazing medical care, etc. etc. Thing being those are two totally differant career paths. You mention people fighting in Iraq or where ever else in the world the USA happens to be invading at that time. Thing is...they choose that career path by either 1 not having any other skills so they took infantry, or they just wanted to do that. Now don't get me wrong i'm not knocking the service at all by any means, but i do know its definatly not for me.

So by your logic i can compare bill gates to a mcdonalds burger flipper and say its not fair? thats essentially what it boils down to. Two totally differant careers/jobs that have nothing to do with one another but they are two differant choices made by two differant people. There is no doubt a trade pays and thats the easiest way to make money because your marketable but don't get salty with people who choose that route.

On to your comment about your car only going to the dealer for warranty work, i see that all day long on many forums granted i don't care because in all honesty i would not want you as a customer anyway reason being the most likley of scenarios would be just like the subaru wrx mentioned earlier the "its not my fault" or "i don't know what happened" when you know damn well you blew the trans you did something you did this. if its legitimatly the cars fault or a design flaw i have no problem fixing it. Although if it is neglect, abuse, whatever, i will kick you out the door or you pay simple as that. Becuase you can't blame the product for abuse or mistreatment or not maintaining your car correctly.

Case in point i had a customer not by belts once, they were cracked heavily and 3 weeks later she was raising hell and claiming defect becuase her a/c didn't work, well guess what its not going to work if the belt gets cracked so bad a/c compresssor clutch engages and puts more load on that belt and it breaks off.

With your friend fixing your car i understand that i do that for my friends as well although i do have the training, correct tools, know how, experiance, and a plethora of information at hand to do so. Joe mechanic in his garage and backyard probably does not. Trust me one day you will be into a dealer for a non warranty issue your friend can't fix and it might just end up being a neglect issue. Funny how that works save money now spend money later.

There is a definate differance between dealer maintained cars and the other catagory as i like to call them, that only come in for big major things they get kicked out of an independent shop for or thier friend can't fix/diagnose. Ask any good dealer tech, i am sure the other two dealer techs in here can vouch for that.

My rant is over now just for now though. now time to get out and watch the reply to this one

[awdjdmtalon]

We have what is called price matrix. It is based on the job type. You aren't going to pay 90 an hour for a cabin air filter. You WILL pay 90 hr for diag. There are different rates for different jobs.

I hope that clears it up some. So when you see the $90 hr labor rate, keep in mind that that is for daig, and some major repair, that are complicated and time consuming.

That $90 goes to tech pay, service writer pay, shop manager pay, utilites, special tool, good will repairs. ect.

So it isn't that the dealers what to just pile on a larger charge to make $$$. Granted we do make a profitt, but it is not a HUGE profitt margin.

And we as tech do not have our tools supplied to us. We buy all our own tool. I have over $20k in tools w/ my tool box. So we have our own expenses too.

[fbpem1]

we have a grid matrix as well but it works a little differant and since they change it all the time i can't explain what it is now.

heres a picture for the hell of it of some of the cost inqured by a tech needed to do his job correctly thats a KRL series snap on stainless steel top and side box and snap on cart go look up the prices on the stuff on snapon.com and see thats not including tools or anything just box and accesories. I'm sure i am well capped over 20k just like you awdjdmtalon.

[BrandAidDesignG35]

Welcome to Nico fbpem1! Chime in anytime, this is General Discussions baby!

I do agree that there is a lot to be said for "dealer maintained cars", they have better resale value, and often, like my Dad, he takes his car in if it makes one squeak or creak... But at the same time, he has a good relationship with the Nissan shop, and Gets deals and jackets and stuff from being a good customer.

I too have a good relationship with my mechanic, he's actually the service manager, so he gets me good deals, and the work comes with full warranty and he's super cool He has many cars, but his favorite is his 911. He was impressed when he saw my car last year Went from a 94 Altima to the G35 + 98 Altima. He's so far done my front wheel bearing, full brake job, rotors pads, front rear, tire rotation, wheel alignment F/R etc for $460... I thought it was a pretty good deal

If Stevethetech, awdjdmtalon, or fbpem1 were near me, I'd certainly try to bribe you to work on my car, but I understand that if you're working on my car, you're going to get paid for the work you're doing... And in all fairness, would be happy to pay you whatever you want for your quality work, I don't think that everyone here is knocking your positions, carreers, or whatever...

But I think the general mindset is, that if you know a friend who is a technician, and he's willing to work on your car, than it's a win win for both parties, Extra cash under the table for the tech, and a slightly lower cost for the car owner.... This is speculation, and I understand that some of you may not pursue an "after hours" career under the hood, but in my experience, it can be a fun, bonding experience to work on cars with friends, automotive professionals, and technicians, buddies, etc.

I don't know everyone's positions, but I think you all can understand where I'm coming from.

[awdjdmtalon]

Nice box. I just got a KRL1032 triple bank snap on box/ w stainless top. I had a Matco box the same size as yours, but out grew it.

If anyone is wondering about prices of toolboxes. Mine was $11,000.00 before the trade in of my old box. Yes we trade them in. They are like cars. And there is a good market for used boxes.

The Snap On guy had my old box sold at his next stop. If you take care of it, it has good resale value like your cars.

And I have no idea how much I have in tools. I would say that 10k maybe a low estamate.

[notalk]

Try this next time you have your car in for work. As if you can get a "tour" of the shop. Tell them that you are courious as to what it looks like, and to see where all the "majic" takes place. I'm sure if they are not swamped, that they will be more then happy to walk you through. (here is a hint. do it when you make a wait appointment, and as you are walking around the shop, stop and talk w/ the tech working on your car. Seem interested in what he is doing, ask 2-3 questions and leave it at that.) If the tech thinks you are truely interested in the repair of your vech, most of the time they will come out and talk to you directly, or at least stop and tell you that your car is done. And don't forget to ask his name.

Yes there is the lack of communication between SW and techs at times. And that is were a good tech will go back and ask the SW for clairification. And if need be having the tech talk directly to the customer. (techs know how to ask the questions poperly to lead you to describe the concern acuratly) But sometimes we do make mistakes. Just like eveyone else. Only we (namely the dealer) gets bad mouthed for it. How many times has McDonalds screwed up your order, but you still happily go back?

Steve is right. We get sterotyped as greasy rednecks w/ long hair and 3 teeth. Now I do know some that are like that, but I can tell you. That they are 1% of the techs in dealerships.

Andy(infinitigkid) has met me, and can tell you I am not that 1%. And we are in a rural area of VA.

So loose the misconception of greasy rednecks, and have faith in your techs.

I appreciate the suggestion, and, no, I never thought of mechanics as greasy rednecks. I worked my way through college in the parts department of a Porsche dealership. (They also provided a Showroom Stock C car for me to drive during the summer.) I worked my through graduate school as a part-time mechanic in an upper end Porsche specialty repair shop. The managing partner of the dealership is a friend, and he personally ordered my G37. Having been in their shoes, I think I know what not to ask of my dealer and how to describe problems. I also think I know how valuable their time is and try not to take too much or get in their way.

The last time I was in my service advisor could not answer a question I had, actually I questioned the accuracy of his answer, and the service manager was walking by. The service advisor asked the service manager, who confirmed my understanding was correct and the service advisor's original answer was not correct. The service advisor never introduced me to the service manager. And, the service manager made no attempt to meet the person in the advisor's cubicle. While this dealership is an Infiniti Premier dealership, it seems the service personal, excluding the techs, does not really seem interested in the customers or the customers' satisfaction.

As I said I do appreciate your suggestion, but the service advisors at this dealership know I have seen the insides of service departments and parts departments. They know I have a fair amount of experience working on cars myself (up to and including national winning race cars). The service advisors and service manager just really do not care. I am fortunate that I have three dealerships within 45 miles of me. So, I have some alternatives. It is just disappointing that the dealers and Infiniti North America do not really seem to care about the customers in this neck of the woods. I still find it difficult to believe my German cars were better built and the German dealers treated me better. I hate having the nagging doubt in the back of my mind that buying an Infiniti was a mistake.

[zozoka1212]

we have a grid matrix as well but it works a little differant and since they change it all the time i can't explain what it is now.

heres a picture for the hell of it of some of the cost inqured by a tech needed to do his job correctly thats a KRL series snap on stainless steel top and side box and snap on cart go look up the prices on the stuff on snapon.com and see thats not including tools or anything just box and accesories. I'm sure i am well capped over 20k just like you awdjdmtalon.

I am totally familiar with all Snap on. That's all we using in the shop.

That is a small toolbox. I'll take picture when I've go back to work next week. Lot bigger and all paid by the company and we still making money. Believe it or not tooling is not a big cost in my company. All set up people all supervisors,all maint. personal getting there tools free from our company.

As I explained myself too. The shop rate we have goes to H.R., operators, Financial girl, buyer set up person, cleaner, etc etc. We all have the same what you have and lot more believe me. Here is an example we bought 2 new machines lately cost was $600K. What was the last time your dealership spend that much money on equipment? Probably when they built the place. That is why I am saying it is not fair price.

If you guys only get paid for pc not hourly then it is even bigger bs to me. Right now I am in charge for the whole afternoon, include maint, set up, operators and all the production. My guys get paid same amount of money if they cleaning or making parts aka making money for the company and we still capable to make money.

I take my car to the dealer every time. I love warranty. That is one of the reason I've been buying new cars for the last decade. That's why I always saying to buy a new car what you can afford and you know what you get into. If you are out of warranty then you end up with unexpected expenses. Such as repair. But if I was out of warranty and had trouble with my car I would find a small shop with really good reputation and would build a relationship then go from there.

As I said before I have no problem with paying good amount of money for a skilled people. The money on the top of that is bs to me.

zozo

[zozoka1212]

We have what is called price matrix. It is based on the job type. You aren't going to pay 90 an hour for a cabin air filter. You WILL pay 90 hr for diag. There are different rates for different jobs.

I hope that clears it up some. So when you see the $90 hr labor rate, keep in mind that that is for daig, and some major repair, that are complicated and time consuming.

That makes more sense.

zozo

[fbpem1]

That is a small toolbox. I'll take picture when I've go back to work next week. Lot bigger and all paid by the company and we still making money. Believe it or not tooling is not a big cost in my company. All set up people all supervisors,all maint. personal getting there tools free from our company.

the box isn't the biggest but it is not very small, its filled to the brim both the side box and every drawer of the tool box, its everything i need, at least 18k in tools, a dealer tech that specializes dosn't need a huge tool box since everything is the same to take apart really. I work on Nissan/Infiniti and the occasional honda (moms) and my own mazda and thats just about it. You won't find a single SAE american socket or wrench in my box haha.

[awdjdmtalon]

HAHAHA!!!! I agree. That is the average size box in a dealer that works on one line of vech or import/euro cars. I would say that was small if you worked are a domestic dealer. Those poor guys need a special tool for everything. And then the manuf. changes stuff up every 2-3 yrs on them.

I'm like you. NO SAE tools on my box either. But we do use a lot more diff. type sockets then you import guys. Damn Germans love the allen and torx head bolts and screw.

[zozoka1212]

I was just joking you with the size. They are the good size you can buy extension on it. Anyways went to the shop to take a picture.

Just don't try to roll them. On flat you can but our shop is like 1/4 mile. There is a little ramp in the middle with 5-7% slop.

Snap on tools are really good. We have lifetime here in Canada on all Snap on tools. The guy here once a week with his track.

This is the cleaners toolbox.

[BrandAidDesignG35]

I miss working in Ontario, everything there is HUGE!!! Including the paychecks...

Zozo, are you guys hiring any cleaners... lol Nice tools sets BTW everyone

[awdjdmtalon]

Mine is the size of the black one. Only I don't have the hutch and top cabnet. But mine is Candy Apple Red and Chrome. The old school hot rodder in me came out when I was picking the color.

[zozoka1212]

I love the red. Maybe I am old school too. But I am open for any colo. Well almost any. One of the guy bought the little one just to go to stations. He bought the purple. WTF.

We were making fun of him a hole week.

zozo

[awdjdmtalon]

Ok lets see if I can get the pic of my box to post up.

[SteveTheTech]

I covet your box I am working out of zozo's cleanup guys box and an old Craftsman top and bottom. I do not buy things on credit and am currently working on saving for a house. Plus the convenience of being able to roll out on a moments notice if needed. I am over crowded now but just cannot bite off payments for a used car to store tools, I plan on holding out for the perfect deal.

[zozoka1212]

Nice I like it a lot. Can't see many of them here. All different colors but not like yours. I also like the blue ones. Sexy.

ahhahahahah

Steve,

It matters more what you have in your head then in your toolbox. Good to see you know your priorities and saving for house. To have a family nest on your own is more important than a fancy car or toolbox. You are an awesome guy.

zozo

[SVTCOBRA]

I likes that yeller one!!!!

I have a Craftsman top/bottom, but I'm not a mechanic, I'm a greasy redneck programmer!!!

[awdjdmtalon]

Steve.

You should be able to pick up a good used Mac Tech 1000 box for abot1500-2k. They are a little smaller then fbpem1's box. Even Matco makes good boxes that are cheaper then strap on. I would have gottne anothr Matco box, but we don;t have a dealer here anymore.

After trade in of my box, I only had to finance 4500. And I make a payemt of 60 a week on it.

[SteveTheTech]

I've looked into a few of those and they are not bad, I am spoiled by the strap ons though. Plus our guy comes on friday the only day I usually have cash on me.

I am going to hold off for one like you have I really like the size and room to grow. My space now is budgeted well and the Matco has less total room than I currently have.

I just found this in the new catalog and I think I am in love....

[awdjdmtalon]

Gettin a box w/more room then you think you will ever need is that way to go. And before you know it, it will be full. That is what happened to me.

I started w/ a craftsman top bottom, then went to the Mac tech 100, then to the Matco I just traded in. The Matco was 54"w 45"H.,27"deep. The snap on one is 72"W x 47"H x 30"deep. And after moving into it I had 3 of the small drawers empty. But I did space stuff out so I can find it easier.

Now for the shameless Snap On plug. Right now when you buy a box up to $4999 you get a $300 gift sert. to use on the truck. If you buy a box over $5000 you get a $1000 gc. Think of all the tools you can get for a grand. Like a set of wrenches, a set of sockets and a hammer. HAHAHA.

But seriously. When I got mine they were doing a 10% gc. So i got $475. I got a 7 pc snap ring plyer set, 6 pc radiator hose pic set, Mini file set, and a double flaring tool.

I'll try and get pics of my old box up later today.

I looked at the ad for the box you like. I was kinda eh on it. If I had a ton of battery powered tools, It might be worth it. I think the bottom drawer would be a better use of space for them, and get a 3rd row of drawers.

Take a look at the Classic 76. it is not as tall or deep as mine but jusst as wide and a lot cheaper. And it is still snap on.
Modified by awdjdmtalon at 10:31 AM 11/9/2008