Hey everybody,
i have posted a few times regarding a CA18DET into B12 sentra swap. I've been sitting on a U12 TMIC CA18det engine (i think its the Mark II U12 motor right?), KN13 CA18DE trans, and ECU/harness from an s13 for a while, wanting to swap them into my 89 B12 sedan.engine not so pretty haha...
However i couldn't find any of the intermediate parts i needed (from a KN13 Pulsar SE)
So, my plan for a while was to find a wrecked KN13 SE when I got my tax return.
Finally, that is done! I found a 5 speed 88 Pulsar NX SE in Oregon, and got it shipped here (not cheap haha...)




The KN13 isn't even wrecked (although there is a small amount of passenger side front fender damage) and it even starts and drives!(it does have a blown head gasket, and boy you can tell) However, seeing as my new KN13 "parts car" is much rarer, and in some ways nicer than my daily driven B12 (less miles, less body damage, paint in better condition, etc), and since I could perform the swap into the already-CA18DE equipped car with less work and less moving around of all the damn parts in the engine bay, i've decided to change my project from B12 CA18DET to KN13 CA18DET. Also it helps that i can keep my B12 running this way (as i dont have a second currently running car, that is kinda necessary haha...)

So, to come to my questions, I have found from searching through the web CA18DET muck that I can use the DE cars harness with the DET, as long as I add 10 ohm resistors before the injector plugs on the harness? Is this true? It seems too easy, it seems like there might be more sensors on the DET, or something I would have to add. Anybody got any insight into this? I have emailed Dee a few times, and Stephen as they are FWD DET experts, (you guys are awesome and have been incredibly helpful, thank you thank you!). Also I know there are a couple people with DET swapped Pulsar SE's (livlyjay, liquidneon, etc), so i'm hoping one of you will lend me access to your brain of knowledge
I also understand the ca18de ECU will not safely run the DET, so I have been trying to figure out what to do about engine management. My budget is not enough to cover a $1k+ haltech or SDS standalone, but I have been looking into having my CA18DE Pulsars ECU sent to JWT and eprommed to run the CA18DET. That would only be $600, way off from $1500 for the SDS. Obviously I would love the ability to self tune for more fuel and boost further down the line, but as of now my budget is not quite big enough to start rebuilding the engine and adding extra parts, so I plan on running stock boost for a little anyways. Also, JWT said they can retune the ECU for more boost/fuel for only $100 (although I do have to send it back to them, obviously)
I know Dee has had bad experiences with his DETs being run by JWT, but the posts he refers to that in are anywhere from 9 to 5 years old, so I think they may be better at tuning the DET now than in the past. Anybody else had experiences with JWT DET ecus?

A few more questions. Do any of you DET equipped pulsar guys have problems passing emissions? In AZ they only do a half assed visual inspection and a sniffer test, so I figure as long as its running a proper air fuel ratio with a new cat it should pass just fine
And finally, does the U12 motor really bolt directly in with all the brackets and mounts from the Pulsar DE engine? Is there anything I need to source from another car? I would really like to start my swap as I think i finally have all the needed parts to get the engine physically into the car, but I want to make sure I have every needed part and resource so I can not have a half-disassembled car sitting in my drive way for 6 months (long enough to forget where all your plugs, hoses, etc go when you're done haha)
Thanks if you bothered to read the whole thing, I know its long haha.
-Conley

Alright my friend, let's do this. First of all, JWT should be better at tuning as I got my first CA18DE ecu done by them 11 years ago and that was a disaster. You can actually put the CA18DET in your pulsar and keep the boost extremely low and setting your base timing to 12 degrees BTDC instead of 15. Save your money and buy aftermarket. Trust me when I say that the difference and flexibility as well as the elimination of a bunch of the factory crap is "Priceless". You'll enjoy it more and will have the ability to have your car be very competitive when the opportunity presents itself. Just like you spent money to buy the pulsar and get it shipped to you, save your money and do the swap with authority. Just my $02 and it's still alot..........

So, you think i should pass on the JWT idea? And you think the stock 8 lbs (?) of boost will be safe with the DE ecu? That would basically be leaning it out a bunch right? Anyways, it's not really imperative that the car be running, so I can wait to get a proper system to safely run the engine as well.
When you say aftermarket, i want to know, what systems do you like? I know you are partial to SDS, which system did you use? Am i correct in that i would need the SDS EM4F? the one that controls fuel injection and distributorless ignition? Is there any others you would consider? I have seen that MegaSquirt is cheap, but it also looks quite complex and I have never tuned an engine before (which is half the reason I wanted to go with JWT) and I don't want to pick the hardest system to tune.

conley wrote:So, you think i should pass on the JWT idea? And you think the stock 8 lbs (?) of boost will be safe with the DE ecu? That would basically be leaning it out a bunch right? Anyways, it's not really imperative that the car be running, so I can wait to get a proper system to safely run the engine as well.
When you say aftermarket, i want to know, what systems do you like? I know you are partial to SDS, which system did you use? Am i correct in that i would need the SDS EM4F? the one that controls fuel injection and distributorless ignition? Is there any others you would consider? I have seen that MegaSquirt is cheap, but it also looks quite complex and I have never tuned an engine before (which is half the reason I wanted to go with JWT) and I don't want to pick the hardest system to tune.

If you're in no rush to boost the car right now, then I would pass on the JWT pakage. Flexibility is the key with this and any motor. if you don't have any flexibility over your tuning system, then your motor will belongeth to the wolfster when it comes to upgrades. The good thing is you have pioneers that have paved a modest path for you up and coming boosters to make sound decisions. You will hear folks bragging about HKS this and Tomei that, but none of that means anything if your engine management system relies on a chip programmed for an option of parts you provided to the chip burner. Not trying to toss off SDS or any standalone for the most part, but the sweetness is in the pudding. I've been using SDS since 1991 after failed attempts with JWT modifying my pulsar ECU and I don't regret it whatsoever.

It has allowed me to be my owner tuner. Instead of spending money with a company like JWT and either not getting what I want in performance or worst, me whacking an engine, I can tune to suit my needs and if the engine whacks, I have no one to blame but "Dee". Knock on wood, I have yet to cause anyone's engine to blow because of my tuning and have yet to have an engine come back to me because of a poor build, so I can tune on the wild side with no adverse effects. Just choose wisely and understand the benefits of each. My biased opinion: the standalone wins all day.

Love to see another CA18DET swap into a Pulsar! I did this swap in my '87 and loved it (until I killed the weak little CA16 transmision ). Hell, I still love it, even without 5th gear!

Anyway, I'll be following this build so you had better keep us posted! The folks on here (Dee especially!!!) are full of useful info. Also, I'm sure you've happened across it, but if not there is some useful info on KN13 CA18DET swaps over at www.nissanexa.com.

To answer your question about the mounts, I had no problems whatsoever. I'm fairly sure the U12 and S13 blocks have the same mount holes (Dee, confirm or deny?). With my S13 engine, I just put stripped off the RWD mounts and put the FWD CA16 mounts on. Everything bolted up just fine!

As for tuning, I agree with Dee on going with a stand-alone. I'm not sure what Dee's thoughts on it are, but I am thinking about going with a NIStune board when I get around to building my Pulsar up. With this board you don't have to go through all the trouble of building a Megasquirt system, can use your existing ECU, and it costs less than even a JWT chip.

After hearing what you guys, and Stephen (campgroundman) have said, and checking out the SDS websites install PDFs, I think I have decided to go with the SDS system. The ability to self tune, and to not have to rely on pre-programmed values in an ECU that i have to mail away to change, is what did it for me. I was hoping to not spend that much on the engine management, but it looks like the way to go in the long run. As of now, the car and engine are still sitting, I want to install a new timing belt, oil and water pumps and f&r main seals. I don't plan on doing a full rebuild but what else should I go ahead and replace on the motor before I stick it in the Pulsar? And as for timing belt and oil pump, should I go for OEM nissan or is there a good aftermarket option?

Edit:
Also, this part is broken on my DET, i think its an idle control or something, does anyone have the real name of it or a part number?
Finally, as for the water pump, should I get one for the CA18de or the CA18ET?

conley wrote:After hearing what you guys, and Stephen (campgroundman) have said, and checking out the SDS websites install PDFs, I think I have decided to go with the SDS system. The ability to self tune, and to not have to rely on pre-programmed values in an ECU that i have to mail away to change, is what did it for me. I was hoping to not spend that much on the engine management, but it looks like the way to go in the long run. As of now, the car and engine are still sitting, I want to install a new timing belt, oil and water pumps and f&r main seals. I don't plan on doing a full rebuild but what else should I go ahead and replace on the motor before I stick it in the Pulsar? And as for timing belt and oil pump, should I go for OEM nissan or is there a good aftermarket option?

Edit:
Also, this part is broken on my DET, i think its an idle control or something, does anyone have the real name of it or a part number?
Finally, as for the water pump, should I get one for the CA18de or the CA18ET?

Going that route, you will enjoy it more (I do) . As for the part in qustion, I have a few extras that I'll let go for the cost of a couple of crack rocks...LOL. As for the belts and pumps, oem is just fine,

Cool, is it a valve to bump up the idle for air conditioning? My pulsar doesnt have ac, anyways. Is it something I could just do away with, or do I need to have it? Should I go with a CA18ET water pump or a CA18DE pump?

conley wrote:Cool, is it a valve to bump up the idle for air conditioning? My pulsar doesnt have ac, anyways. Is it something I could just do away with, or do I need to have it? Should I go with a CA18ET water pump or a CA18DE pump?

It's actually the base and you will have a vacuum leak if you don't change it. The CA18DE's water pump is fine in your case. BTW, that valve is an idle-up unit when the compressor is engaged.

I'm dragging this thread back from the dead! I am yet another who desperately seeks CA18DET power in a Pulsar NX! I've had the engine and car for years now with little progress save from collecting needed parts.
Anyways, after a few more years I've gotten a bit wiser (at fixing things, mostly) and I've finally enough cash saved (and a lot of info on the subject) to finish this long in the tooth swap!
I have the CA18DE out of my 1988 Pulsar, and I want to put in my CA18DET I am planning on a few things already like main crank seals and a turbo rebuild, and I have OEM oil and water pumps, timing belt, and I'm sure a couple other things (its been a while ha) to put in before I install the engine.
What do you think, should I also replace the head gasket while I'm at it? The engine was sold as "Under 60k miles and in good running condition" but I've never seen it run. Any other parts I should replace while I'm at it?
As for a brain, I'm planning on getting an SDS system with the 570CC Siemens 2.5ohm injectors, fuel pump, 2bar MAP, and air temp sensor they offer on the site, just for the ease of knowing Racetech wouldn't sell it if it was s***. I know there's a small amount of sensor plug wiring, and a bracket needs to be made for a hall sensor, but otherwise, is there any major roadblocks to using SDS with a CA? I'm only looking to get, maybe 210 to 240 WHP.
P.S. What kind, and size of intercoolers have you guys used?

The head gasket is fine. If the engine has really been setting that long though, I would be VERY worried about compression and oil consumption after it's installed and running. It's highly likely that the cylinder walls have rusted up some and the engine will probably need torn down and re-ringed. It's also probably going to leak oil and water from every gasket and hose on there. That is a LONG time for a motor to be setting around.

You can install it as is, but I think you're going to be REALLY frustrated with it a few months after you do.

I wouldn't be too worried about a standalone right now. Put that money towards a rebuild with new gaskets, seals & hoses everywhere. You'll probably have to get the injectors cleaned and replace the idle control valves as well. Get it in the car and running in stock form first. It's SOOOOO much easier than trying to do a swap AND modify it at the same time. A modified engine swap is REALLY hard to diagnose problems on because there are so many variables.

Thanks for the help. I wasnt sure about pulling apart the bottom end. I done a lot of repairs on my B12 sentra so I'm confident about doing this, but ive never rebuilt an engine. I had assumed the head gasket would be a smart thing to do just in case. I am dismayed to hear I should get the block cleaned up and new rings, I was basically gonna redo everything head and up, but as you said, i dont want to hurry my way into a poorly running engine. I've been patient about this for 3 years, I can wait a little longer. I did figure on rebuilding or replacing the turbo, and replacing all of the gaskets, seals, and hoses, I already have some of what I need (fortunately my GF has a good friend at a dealership parts counter) I haven't made a full list of what I need yet, I was going to do that with the FSM during disassembly. Machine shop be the place to take an engine to get the block honed?

As for injectors, I was planning on buying new ones from Racetech, I thought 570cc would be more than enough at 85% duty cycle, but Dee says I should go bigger. I want about 240 whp. I wouldn't mind room for more, but hopefully it will pass emissions. What size ya guys recommend, should I stick w low impedance? Any specific injectors favored?

If you pull the head, you should be able to tell pretty quickly what kind of shape the cylinders are in, but you'll HAVE to replace the HG then. From there you should be able to tell whether it needs honed or not. If it does need honed, you can take it to a shop, or for less money, you can buy a flex hone and do it yourself. This is assuming you only have minor surface rust. If the cylinder walls are badly rusted, it may have to be bored out. That will require a machine shop and new pistons.

As for injector size, are you going to be running gasoline, or E85? High impedance is easier to deal with (no resistors to mount), and if you're buying a standalone, that's the perfect time to switch. I get my injectors from Detchwerks and I've never had an issue, but getting them from SDS is fine too.

Don't worry too much about emissions and injector size. The SDS can control the injectors well enough to get it to idle properly even with pretty big injectors.

When using a standalone engine management unit, at the minimum, I recommend at least a 750cc injector. You can run smaller injectors, but when you get greedy and needy (and you will), you're going to have to purchase new injectors, install them and re-tune the ECU for the new injectors. I would check the compression of the bottom end to see where it stands. As I stated before, I wouldn't be so quick to rebuild just yet. If the compression is good, get the turbo rebuilt before installing the engine. Drive it until something lets go and at this time you should have a better understanding of where your application is at in terms of driveability, performance and you'll also have a snapshot of reliability.

Okay. I'm gonna look for minimum 750cc, and high impedance it is. I checked out the Daetchworks on their website and the only injectors they show for the CA18DET are low impedance, obviously because of the stock wiring. Do you use injectors from another car on yours Float? Will top feed injectors for any Nissan from that time period fit? I am going to use gasoline. Is E85 more popular out there? Ive never even seen a station that I can think of.
I had already taken the timing belt off, but put it back on last night. The motor is currently on a stand, and I just picked up a leakdown tester. Would a leakdown test be okay instead of a compression test? If I should do a compression test instead, I looked into doing that outside of the car, and will just hook up the motor and starter to a trans and do it while they are on the garage floor, unless anyone has any safety objections.
Where have you guys sourced intercoolers from, what size, and do you mount it in front of the radiator? there looks like a decent amount of room there especially as theres no AC condenser on this car.

I'm running low impedance injectors. If you call them and tell them what your situation is (fits a CA fuel rail and manifold, but in high impedance) they'll have it.

Why would you want to run high impedance injectors? Low impedance is a lot better at managing flow rate.

I had read something to that effect on SDS' tech articles. I have no personal preference as of now. I was going to do a leakdown test but my air compressor had the wrong fitting and all my extra fittings were too big to thread in the tester. So tomorrow i shall get the correct one and try again. I just pulled off all the old chopped up hoses and injector and engine harnesses. Looks better already!