Full-Race's new R14 build thread

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full-race geoff
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Full-Race's new R14 build thread

Postby full-race geoff » Fri Apr 15, 2011 12:34 pm

Hi everyone, it's been about 1 year since our last update on my R14 (AWD-RB26 swapped S14 240SX). We got that car pretty well developed but its at the point where it cant go too much farther and still be a "Street car". I've been so busy with the BorgWarner EFR turbocharger development that there's been no time to work on my personal projects... so ive been itching to build a dedicated ultra-lightweight track prepped race car to see what Full-Race and this R14 swap is really capable of. This thread will document that journey with photos and info. The biggest initial hurdle is to retain a full 240sx chassis, and move the engine back 7" using a lightly modified off-the-shelf R14 kit.

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The next challenge to design a front suspension that will provide improved performance and be much less weight than modified skyline front suspension:

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Our target is to be on the track, next Feb/March 2012. please leave comments and let us know what you think!
____________________________________________________________________

1) we started by organizing all the parts required for the build:

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^^donor R32 GTR clip, purchased for $3800 on ebay

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^^complete R32 GTR rear suspension with factory LSD and ATESSA pump, included with the clip

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^^R14 conversion kit frame rails

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^^R14 transmission mount

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^^^the crossmembers and suspensions disassembled from the R32 GTR clip, ready for a lookover and installation into R14.2

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^^^base model S14 (no sunroof) stripped down completely shell stripped

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^^^placed on rotisserie

2) Before we start we needed to know how far back can the RB26 move without losing AWD? This will provide proof of concept for the vehicle and also allow us to identify the exact location for the engine/transmission

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^^^first we needed to cut the RB26 Front differential/oilpan combo down to length. Fortunately Full-Race has some GIANT bandsaws here for cutting our thickwall merge collectors before CNC machining. The entire RB26 diff fit perfectly

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^^^next, we did a test fit on the shortened front diff moved 6.75" forwards

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^^^what it will look like in the car

3) Next we prep the chassis. I have built many cars of the years, and the worst part is always prepping the chassis. Removing sound deadening, undercoating, rust protection etc is dirty and laborious. I considered acid-dipping this chassis, but heard many horror stories of cars that continue to leak acid from the seam sealer for many months after the has already come back from paint. My good friend Andrew Wojteczko from Auto Analyzer in Canada suggested to media blast the chassis - so we took it to "The Stripping Shop" in Phoenix, AZ. these guys had the entire chassis immaculate and ready for fabrication.

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^^S14 chassis stripped of all paint, undercoating and sound deadening. Ready for installation of R14 kit.

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^^R14 conversion kit frame rails

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^^R14 conversion kit frame rails installed on passenger side

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^^R14 conversion kit frame rails installed on drivers side

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^^R14 conversion kit frame rails installed, verifying alignment with stock subframe bolts

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^^R14 conversion kit frame rails installed, alignment verified


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^^punch alignment marks to guide drillbit

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^^start drilling new subframe bolt holes, a 1/2" unibit drillbit and a good quality 1/2" high-speed-steel drillbit is your best friend here

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^^checking GT-R subframe fitment

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^^clamping down R14-LHD steering rack

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^^R14-LHD steering rack installed

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^^trans mount test fitted

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^^R14 kit installed, ready for engine mockup



4) Next we have to make clearance for the engine/transmission from the firewall and trans tunnel. We decided that we want this swap to come out factory, so the only way to do that was to surgically remove the entire firewall/floor from the GTR-Clip we had here, and graft that into the S14 chassis, except moved back 7".


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^^we cut up the remains of the gtr clip, carefully removing the floor, firewall and trans tunnel. We cut much more than we actually needed initially, to make sure that what we did need would be intact

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^^^next we cut up the S14 with fresh R14 conversion, to remove the firewall and transmission tunnel

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^^^smallish S14 tunnel compared to giant hulking R32 floor, will make working on the car MUCH easier, especially now that we have a getrag 6 speed trans form an r34 gt-r

5) Now it is time to get the motor in it's new home, 7" back. I believe very strongly in clean swaps, so I wanted to do this as OEM factory as possible. We used the stock motor mounts and stock motor mount bracket, just relocated the point:

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^^you can see the stock GT-R mount point on the right, and the Full-Race fabricated mount point on the left.

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^^engine getting dropped into place

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^^OEM skyline motor mount and bracket, in the new 7" back position.

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^^fabricated passenger side bracket, had to do this to clear differential

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^^GTR floor in place before getting prepped for installation

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^^another view of how far back this engine now sits
Last edited by full-race geoff on Fri Apr 15, 2011 2:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.


full-race geoff
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Re: Full-Race's new R14 build thread

Postby full-race geoff » Fri Apr 15, 2011 12:35 pm

6) Front suspension is a critical element for GT-R's. The stock R32 nissan suspension works, and is simple but is not lightweight, and can not give high performance at very low ride heights. The R33/R34 suspension was vastly improved over R32, however it still is not light enough nor does it follow the exact path that we are looking for. the following pictures help explain this better

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^^stock R32 GT-R front susp

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^^stock R32 GT-R + R34 GT-R front spindles

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^^R14 front susp, basically the same as stock R32 GT-R

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^^^another R14 we built, and a different view

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^^^basic idea for new suspension setup. Still using stock GTR lower control arm, spindle/hub and brakes


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^^GT-R spindle, with upper section removed

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^^GT-R spindle next to new spherical bearing

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^^GT-R spindle lug machined down to accept spherical bearing

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^^GT-R spindle w/ spherical bearing inserted on lug



this is where we stand on this, lots more work to come this weekend/next week

7) Once the firewall is contructed and chassis is rolling, we will send it to Get Nuts Labs in Las Vegas, NV for rollcage and chassis stiffening. some of their work:

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and some others i really like:
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we will take a hybrid of these photos and make sure it is very lightweight, stiff and most importantly SAFE for our driver. Lots of pics to come of this soon.

8) DCCD Pro -- most people on this forum dont care about subaru swaps, but anyone who does a late model STi swap into an old skool subaru will require some way to control the center differential (torque split). The R14 swap is no different. I came up with a clever solution which allows us to tweak torque split based off of hydraulic pressure. The problem with this is that it is not as responsive to changing conditions as an active g-sensor system. As a result i started to research what STi enthusiasts do and how to get around this hurdle... that's when i stumbled upon DCCDpro.com and met Jeff Reid, the owner.

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FAQ: http://dccdpro.com/main/?page_id=3
install details: http://dccdpro.com/main/wp-content/down ... %20UNI.pdf
online store page: http://dccdpro.com/zcart/index.php?main ... b2d7334966

I sent a test rig to jeff which he could hook up on his laboratory bench and experiment with:

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and after several months of experimentation jeff has the system functioning perfectly. He will make a few small tweaks before sending me the formal prototype but we are well on our way to having a mappable and functional active-center-differential.

thanks for reading, feel free to post up feedback/ideas. btw - my front suspension project will be done for 2wd S-chassis also
Last edited by full-race geoff on Fri Apr 15, 2011 3:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Full-Race's new R14 build thread

Postby breadbox » Fri Apr 15, 2011 12:41 pm

Nice work. How much less accessible is the motor at that point?

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Ajax
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Re: Full-Race's new R14 build thread

Postby Ajax » Fri Apr 15, 2011 12:50 pm

Are you a wizard?
This looks to be an amazing build; I look forward to drooling at my desk for the next few months.

full-race geoff
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Re: Full-Race's new R14 build thread

Postby full-race geoff » Fri Apr 15, 2011 4:05 pm

no, not a wizard - thanks for the compliments tho!

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Re: Full-Race's new R14 build thread

Postby milto0n » Fri Apr 15, 2011 4:47 pm

wow :spitout:

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Re: Full-Race's new R14 build thread

Postby jsturges18 » Fri Apr 15, 2011 5:48 pm

sweeeeeeeeeet :D

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Re: Full-Race's new R14 build thread

Postby OutToWinPAHC » Fri Apr 15, 2011 6:30 pm

Amazing work again guys, fabrication skill are second to none.

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Re: Full-Race's new R14 build thread

Postby PapaSmurf2k3 » Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:24 pm

Good looking stuff guys! Do you have any performance goals set? Lap times? 0-60 times? Handling Gs? Or is this all sort of a "lets just freaking do it and see how awesome the result is" type of build :)

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Razi
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Re: Full-Race's new R14 build thread

Postby Razi » Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:27 pm

Wow, fantastic work!

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Re: Full-Race's new R14 build thread

Postby induetime » Sat Apr 16, 2011 1:04 am

Nuts! That's all I have to say.

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Re: Full-Race's new R14 build thread

Postby Ace2cool » Sat Apr 16, 2011 1:46 am

Wow, this is gonna be downright awesome. :yesnod

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Re: Full-Race's new R14 build thread

Postby full-race geoff » Mon Apr 18, 2011 6:20 pm

thanks for all the kind words everyone! The floor is in 100% and we will start on the trans mount this week.

We are going to use the Nismo JGTC Silvia as the rough draft for the cage, take a look at some of the photos here: http://nissanroadracing.com/showpost.ph ... stcount=62

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Re: Full-Race's new R14 build thread

Postby PapaSmurf2k3 » Mon Apr 18, 2011 6:25 pm

That battery is ominously close to the driver... is that legal?

full-race geoff
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Re: Full-Race's new R14 build thread

Postby full-race geoff » Tue Apr 19, 2011 9:56 am

it is legal only for this type of battery, but ours will be in the trunk anyway!

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Re: Full-Race's new R14 build thread

Postby kouki munster » Tue Apr 19, 2011 10:18 am

Image

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Re: Full-Race's new R14 build thread

Postby Brandon1605 » Tue Apr 19, 2011 3:31 pm

Makes all us regular joes look so sad, lol. Beautiful work!

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Re: Full-Race's new R14 build thread

Postby AZ89two4Tsx » Tue Apr 19, 2011 3:46 pm

^ Werd to that.

Outstanding work.

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Re: Full-Race's new R14 build thread

Postby Ace2cool » Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:53 am

Any updates on this?

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Re: Full-Race's new R14 build thread

Postby badbob2121 » Thu Jul 28, 2011 5:56 pm

This s14 has always been a favorite... to be honest the Dec 2006 issue of modified mag that had this car on the cover is still sitting next to my crapper :)

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Re: Full-Race's new R14 build thread

Postby 240TKE128 » Fri Jul 29, 2011 3:25 pm

This is an awesome car already cant wait to see more.

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Re: Full-Race's new R14 build thread

Postby alms24sebring » Fri Jul 29, 2011 6:02 pm

Really great guys. I cant wait to see the finished product. Hardcore builds are like nothing else.

Any updates?

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Re: Full-Race's new R14 build thread

Postby Mercury_Hg » Fri Jul 29, 2011 6:21 pm

It's car p0rn.

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Re: Full-Race's new R14 build thread

Postby full-race geoff » Sun Jul 31, 2011 3:21 pm

thanks for all the kind words everyone! the car is currently at get nuts labs for the chassis work (that guy is BUSY!!) and Full-Race is in the middle of a move... we got a great deal on a huge building and the new car will be finished there. Anyone who needs full-race equipment now is the time to pick it up, were discounting a lot of stuff so we dont have to move it all into the new building!!

the huge development for the R14 conversions is that the ETS-pro 4wd controller is almost ready - that is THE missing link for making AWD 240 converisons a reality for normal people to build/install/race. With this device it will make my R14s far more competitive on the track. Full details here at the bottom of the page: the http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/150416-upgra ... ecu-4.html Ill keep the grey R14 going and racing, updating it with EFR turbocharger, ETS-pro 4wd controller, carbonetic rear LSD, and electric power steering (in the trunk). I will make sure to photo that and keep the build thread updated!

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Re: Full-Race's new R14 build thread

Postby AZhitman » Sun Jul 31, 2011 3:55 pm

Geoff's lying - He IS a wizard. :)

This is how I know:

"mappable and functional active center differential". :dblthumb:

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Re: Full-Race's new R14 build thread

Postby kouki munster » Sun Jul 31, 2011 7:35 pm

AZhitman wrote:Geoff's lying - He IS a wizard. :)

This is how I know:

"mappable and functional active center differential". :dblthumb:

And the lack of that is why I haven't put more effort into doing an rb26 swap, Hmmmmmmm............. now the question is do I continue on with my supercharged cobra 4.6 plans or do I unload that stuff and look more into the rb26. :gotme

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Re: Full-Race's new R14 build thread

Postby full-race geoff » Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:34 am

no wizardry here! The fact is Jeff Reid did all the wizardry developing the algorithm for the ETS-Pro center diff controller. if anyone is a wizard, its that guy. Im just a really hardcore car enthusiast -the R14 conversion was made so anyone who can do an RB motorswap can make it AWD and double wishbone front susp

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Re: Full-Race's new R14 build thread

Postby Coolwhip » Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:44 am

Geoff, loving this build man!


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