fuel rail removal for G50

[ponzy]

if the wheather permits, i'll start doing the plenum job on my 1994 q tomorrow(jan27). Now my question is how to remove the rail from the runners? or is it self-explanatory once i got the plenum off? cause i wanna send it for fuel flush and have it tested and cleaned too the same time ( from our sponsor DW)

I'll be printing all the info/tips/instructions i got from here, tonight and have it ready just in case i ran into some trouble while doing that. i'll post some info if i encounter some problem, hopefully, you guys will help me..... and i have 2 weeks (two half days on SAT/whole day on sun= 3 full days) to do this job:

1.) Removing and cleaning the plenum;2.) cleaning the EGR \valve and tube?;3.) cleaning the throttle body; basically all the jobs listed on http://www.q45.org;4.) remove the fuel rail with the injectors on it and have it flushed. (BTW, i'll be changing 2 injectors).5.) change the spark plugs; then after that timing the CAS (?);6.) change the valve cover gasket(there's no leak actually but i figured it it's gonna be lot easier to do it since i 'll already on it esp. the driver side.;

Hopefully, i'll be done with those in two weeks from now cause the wheather is not getting friendlier up here in east coast.

1994 q45 standard with TCS; 104 k mi.

thank you so much guys............in advance......

[elwesso]

Yeah its really easy, youll need to remove all the fuel hoses in the back (or just cut them)... Then its just held on with a few bolts and thats the end of it...

Check out Ross aka ceningolmo's plenum thread. hes got a ton of great pics if you havent already seen them.

[goody90q45]

There's 8 bolts holding the fuel rail in and each of the bolts has at least 2 plastic/rubber spacers/insulators and 2 metal washers.

After cutting the fuel hoses (much easier than dealing with the clamps) be careful when lifting the fuel rail out that you capture all of these loose parts before they fall into the valley of no return or worse yet one of the intake runners (which I'm sure you've sealed off long before now). You might be able to buy the metal washers from a hardware store but I'm sure the spacers would be a stealership item only. Good luck.

[ponzy]

thanks guys for the replies... anyway, i did start this afternoon at around 4:00 pm and just finished (11:45pm)to call it a day. i did'nt do much as it was very cold at 42 degrees but feels like 30.

The things that consumed most of my hours is removing and replacing the hood struts. It took me about almost 2 hours to figure it out and installed it properlly and later found that it's broken too (too frustated).

Then i worked on the fuel pump, but to my disaapointment, i cant remove the rear seatback for any reason. I did averything's under TANGALORA thread/article about R/R on fuel pump but can't do it, prolly i'm too exhausted to continue and besides my hands are with dirt and grease (from doing the hood struts) and dont wanna mess up the apholster on the rear sundeck so I decided to focus on the plenum next. my question is can I do the fuel pump R/R on the trunk? or it's still advisable on doing it through the rear seat?

I was able to remove the throttle body through cutting all the hoses on it, hopefully it's not that expensive on those hoses ( 2 big hoses and 2 small ones on both sides---- gonna order those from JOE tomorrow(monday). I found it too tight for the hoses on both sides to pull them out since i was'nt able to improvised a hose puller, so decided to cut all of them.

i removed all 16 bolts form the plenum; 4 long bolts(1.5 in) from the IAC, 4 small bolts and 1(14mm) on wiring from the EGR sensor and 2(14mm) long bolts(1.75 in) from the EGR sensor. so far that's it for now, i'll continue tomorrow.... how many bracket are there on the plenum before i can pull it up? or can cut all those hoses? Is it easy to put a new one on those conncetions (but it's too tight to pull it out in the first place)?

hope you guys can help me out or give me some advises.....thank you so much...

i'll send pictures next time.....

tomorrow, hopefully i 'll be done with plenum and be able to remove the rail and have it shiooed to DW. and then. i'll start on resealing the valve covers and putting NGK sparkplugs.( which i doubt i can finish it by tomorrow).

[maxnix]

You need to study Cenigllingmo plenum posts.

The seat comes out easily, but the parcel shelf is best released from inside the trunk. Study the posts while you are warm and attack each step after a warm-up.

[ponzy]

update: i did the de-pressurezation as to what tangalora and everyone here is suggesting. The battery was removed before all those job begun and I kept the gas cap off for the whole night since sat night.

1.) i was able to pull the plenum off with cutting most of the hoses ;2.) i was able to remove the fuel rail. but it came with a big problem: as i was cutting the fuel line from the back of the fuel rail (#7 side-driver side)fuel kept on pouring and prolly a gallon poured until i clogged it with a bolt (i removed from fuel rail and intake runners). there's no fuel came out on injectors. My concern is whether the "flooding" on engine valley caused by a cut fuel line on the location i stated above will cause hydrolocking the engine? 3.) 5 injectors has broken plastic tips. is there anyway, that i could buy just the plastic tips? i'm supposed to change 2 injectors (3 and 5) but ironically and devastatedly #1,2,6,7,8 has broken tips. PLEASE do reply....... i am afraid i've caused more harm than good on DIYing on my Q...

THIS IN NOT TO SCARE NICO MEMBERS TRYING TO BE DYI-HARD. IT IS ACTUALLY MY PURPOSE ON TELLING MY STORY FOR OTHERS TO KNOW TO BE CAREFUL AS TO NOT DAMAGE THE ENGINE AND CAR.

thank you so much....how am i be able to post some pics here?
Modified by ponzy at 6:15 PM 1/28/2007

[maxnix]

In for a dime, in for a dollar.

Might as well plan to go all the way in and replace the KS and harness, all hoses.

Deatsch can help with you injector tips. Might as well send them in also.

And you will see the necessity of cleaning the plenum, IAC and EGR valves, and TB.

[ponzy]

i did bought a knock sensor/ harness but not all the hoses....but now, i guess i have to buy all those hoses cause most of the hoses i did cut were not the ones i ordered from JOE(the man!). The reason i removed the rail is to have it serviced to DEATSCH. Max do you think i have flooded the engine? i know it poured outside the engine(engine valley) but i just wanna make sure i have'nt done any damage on the engine cause i dont know how to check it while everything's out. and besides i did put back in the gas cap last night when i was done and did removed it this afternoon and just left it off tonight. thanks for the reply

[ponzy]

WES and JESDA thanks for the replies, but im still anxious on what had happened. if you guys can picture out what i have described above, do you think i have flooded the engine? # 5 injector tip had an oil on it when i inspected the removed fuel rail. And WES, can't do the car tomorrow, i'll be back on it by next weekend. I hope i can call you next week when im on it. I dont have a garage or a driveway so my OYI(q45) is on my friend's backyard(about 10 mi from my work/apt). THANK you so much......

[maxnix]

Max do you think i have flooded the engine? i know it poured outside the engine(engine valley) but i just wanna make sure i have'nt done any damage on the engine cause i dont know how to check it while everything's out. and besides i did put back in the gas cap last night when i was done and did removed it this afternoon and just left it off tonight.

Leave the tank cap on after it is depressurized.

As long as gas didn't go into the cylinder, no danger of hydrolocking. do clean the valley while you are there. The gas in the cylinders should evaporate anyway. Do change oil before you start it up, or as soon thereafter as possible.

[elwesso]

actually you want to leave the cap to the gas tank off because if you dont fuel will start spilling out anytime the temperature changes!

[kisakron]

Hey Ponzy I just changed an injector this week for the first time and i ripped the the lower o-ring but didnt know it. A lot of fuel leaked into the cylinder but no hydro lock. However, i removed the spark plug and with a piece of long plastic tubing I shot some compressed air into the cylinder. I am glad my cigar was out at the time, because I decent spray of fuel came out.As the others have recommended do change the oil, mine looked like kerosene after it had been cut with the fuel.

[Q451990]

Loosening the gas cap for the duration is absolutely a must! I depressurized Q1 once, and then left it in the driveway all unbolted waiting for parts. Someone actually came to my front door saying (did you know gas is running down your driveway?).

It was summertime and pretty hot, so the expanding gas was pushing it's way right out... must have had a gallon or so trickle out.

Heath

[ceningolmo]

You need to study Cenigllingmo plenum posts.

LOL - Brian don't bother trying to type my screen name. It's too long and stupid. Even I don't type it very often. Just "Ross" works fine for most people...I'll follow up with a link to the article if there is any confusion.

I don't want you putting your fingers in a pretzel trying to spell Ceningolmo.

[ceningolmo]

Fuel will spill out if the wind blows, if you sneeze in the vicinity of the engine, if you fart past 8PM, or if it just feels like it. Even with the gas cap left off... fuel still would just randomly pour out of my fuel hoses.

I taped the ends of the fuel hoses closed after the third time I found a puddle. Trust me... just plug them and tape them. It's easier in the long run.

Spend some time reviewing some of the pictures and info in this thread...trust me, I went through some effort to make sure I documented things pretty well for people who do this job in the future. You might find some things that are helpful.

[ponzy]

thanks ross....i'll save my anxiety for now....and release sometime this weekend when i continue my plenum job. BTW, up to now i did let the gas cap off. i guess it's okay, no more dripping of fuel. .......

Hey Ponzy I just changed an injector this week for the first time and i ripped the the lower o-ring but didnt know it. A lot of fuel leaked into the cylinder but no hydro lock. However, i removed the spark plug and with a piece of long plastic tubing I shot some compressed air into the cylinder. I am glad my cigar was out at the time, because I decent spray of fuel came out.As the others have recommended do change the oil, mine looked like kerosene after it had been cut with the fuel.

i'll do that before i start the engine when i'm done.

[ponzy]

update:

i have shipped my fuel rail and injectors to DEATSCHWERKS. right now i am still awaiting email form them and from WES re: ECU

hopefully, i'll be receiving those by thursday next week.... ( david........please send it back to me by thursday )

[ponzy]

update:

this afternoon was below 30 feels like 19....i've woked on my car for about 2 hours and fortunately was able to remove the rear sundeck and so was able to continue removing the fuel pump from the tank. but, there's goes another problem. the screws that clamp the pump from the whole assemply (inside the tank) was stripped. so i decided, to continue the re-installation tomorrow. buy some new 1/3 inch 4-5mm screw from advance auto parts (was looking in my small toolbox with lots of screws, nothing match/fit what i need), and if it's only 20's degrees, prolly i'll finish up everything with the fuel pump R/R, tomorrow.

[ponzy]

it was 5 degrees outside, never did anything on the q today.....

[maxnix]

Another advantage of having the rear parcel shelf removed is that one can clearly inspect the tank for any sediment, even a mist. If discenible (not absolutely clear to the bottom), remove and steam clan, then go after you rebber lines (replace) and metal ones (blow out with compressed air).

[ponzy]

ok......gotta be going to finish up the plenum job... this weekend.....it's been a month..... i know it took me too long but here's next week with nice 40 degree weather, hopefully i'll be done by that. i finished up the "pump" about 2 weeks ago. i jsut orederd from joe last week some of the water hoses and some air hoses i cut: 11826+C; 14860NB; 14055M; 14055 MA; 14056NB; 14056N; 14056NA; 2 brake booster line; 11823-60U61(11823+C)Got the DEATSCH injectors;changed the knock sensors,done r/r fuel pumpbought a 'gates' fuel hoses about 6 ft (dont know their ratings?)

here's now, dealing with the vaccum hoses..... i posted a new thread with regards to the vaccum hoses. are they really measured in metrics or the standard's? i brought the cut vaccum hoses and none of them matched with the ones in pepboys, advance auto and some local shops.. or maybe they just dont have stocks for those? anyways, ill look again tom.

these are the part codes: hopefully someone will give me some ideas as to what are their equivalent inner diameter sizes: ( i got it from WES' under plenum hoses diagram)

22320HA22310B (L=100); (L=110); (L=190); (L=70); (L=80); (L=60)

22320HC22320HD22320H22320HE22320OU

i'm a really bad *** trying-so-hard DIY, but at least im doing it myself.Never did the sparkplugs and resealling the valve covers as i planned to before, but i need the car rollin'. so prolly, i'll do those next time. Spark plugs was changed 40k miles ago. Checked the valve covers and it has signs of leaked oil but i guess it's not that bad.

ok thanks everyone, hopefully i'll be done by this weekend.
Modified by ponzy at 8:55 PM 2/28/2007

[maxnix]

Man, if you are like me, the very thought of going back in for the valve cover gaskets later is way too daunting.

Do it now and minimize your pain.

[ponzy]

update:

i was able to put it back in last night. all of them just to find it more worse, there's still check engine light on, wild vibration ( RPM= moving high-low/ 1500-1000). i am suspecting a vaccum leak. i tried the air pats cleaner test but there's no positive result(engine reving up)---- engine constantly reving up and down.. i have used a standard size vaccum hoses but i am pretty sure it's really tight. actually i dont know where to start asking questions, but here's first: i didnt spray some elec parts cleaner on the plugs of knock sensors and it might have been tainted with anti-freeze while i was installing it. could it be a reason? cause i figure out those plugs were like magnetic?any help and ideas where could i go wrong? hard to describe cause as of now i am still pissed off. started 2 pm saturday and ended up a leak by 11 pm

testing.....pic inserted:....testing......

[ponzy]

testing...........

[ponzy]

actually i have a hard time installing the vac hoses bet TB and plenum and might mis matche those hoses. i have the diagram as to the plenum but dont have with re: TB vac hoses. can someone give me a diagram or a pic of vac hoses from the TB...and to where its connected as per the plenum.

thanks everyone......

[maxnix]

Ponzy, you are living my nightmare.

Did you check Ceniglomo posts with pictures? Best source I know besides my own pictures.

[3Q Jay]

i've just been thru the plenum for the second time....i see your car has tcs. makes it a bit more complicated, but very do-able.

i see a loose hose and a loose 5mm allen head bolt for the elbow to TB. we'll assume those have been fixed since your picture.

there are two vac lines to the bottom of the TB. the back one has a sleeve about an inch long over part of it.

the front one is a pain to hook up, why i cheat and cut the new one about an inch longer. there are actually 4 hoses that connect the TB to the 'plenum'--2 vac and 2 coolant. on 1 of the 2 coolant the other end actually goes down in the valley, the other is the tight 'U' shaped hose between the EGR plenum port and the TB.

post up lots of pics and we can get you thru the reconnection process.

[ponzy]

thanks all... but i guess i'll have to wait till weekend cause it gotten cold again here about 0 degrees with windchill and besides it's in my friend's backyard about 20 miles from my home. anyways, ill post up asap be the end of this week.

my concern is: could it be possible for the symptoms caused by a leaked injector from pinched o-ring? i haved moved 2 injectors #6 and # 4. i replaced the #6 and # 4 with new ones and saved a DEATSCH used injector # 4 as a reserve. symptoms are.........: engine reving up and down.......feels like sucking air?;MIL is on. ( i wish i had those OBD 1 scan tool to check it/ dont know how to check through the ecu light warning---by driver side?) RPM readings keep coming up and down from 1500 - 500 revolution in a second. (constant)if it's leaky injector, i am kinda worried about hydrolocking the engine. i am planning to change the oil first (again). buy some swivel small mirror (to look for the suspected leak vac hose) and finally if those were negative i'll do the plenum again. do i have to have a new gaskets installed again eventhough gaskets i have used was brand new --- TB (2); IAC; EGR?

thanks all for the replies..........jay i'll post up pic next time again ..thanks

[ponzy]

i took everything out again this afternoon, i took out injector #4 and i think it's not seated properly so I re-seat it again. and also i missed the small vac hose under the center of the plenum(more oriented on the TB side) to be connected to the egr tube (small hose about 2-2.5 inches). i still used the standard sized vac hoses. Fired it back again, considerable less shaking but check engine light is on and it started with 1250 rpm until it warmed up a little bit and it's base rpm is 650. the problem is it's kinda fluctuating again to around 450 - 650 (approximate). i drove it to a local shop for a change oil, did some BG moa flush. while in there i asked them to drain the old oil then put a new oil and BG moa on used oil filter( i know it's not a good idea but still did it). idle the engine about 5 minutes and drained it again. They put a mobil new oil/filter. when i was driving it, it felt a little bit faster (i guess) but the rpm fluctuates bet 450 - 750 when braking and reaching from 25/30 mph - full stop(0 mph). Before the plenum job, there's no vibration when in neutral, and now i felt a little bit vibration. i also felt when it changed gear, the rpm suddenly drops from 2750 rpm to 2000 rpm ( speed around 40-50 mph) while gearing up. but i never felt any hesitation. I am suspecting a foul spark plugs since i was too chicken to deal with it and never changed it thinking a 40k miles plugs will still be ok.; or a MAF sensor.; or a coil pack.; or something else.whatever it is, i really need the USB-consult and DATA scan to figure it out. An $80 usb-consult and $25(?) DATASCAN is i think far better than going to the dealer and have it check for codes for $120.

anyways, thanks all for the HELP. i never thought a newb like me will be able to pull this project quite succesful ( since i was able to put it all back together . although i never re-screwed back the clamp screws on the egr tubes on both sides. ) if it were'nt for you guys and this forum, i would'nt be able to do this. i know the original problem was still there despite a plenum job, injector flushed and everything done, i still felt rewarding on dealing this car myself.... i know there's gonna be a lot more backaches and expenses on the way.......but for now i'll just wait for the usb consult and checked for the codes.

p.s. i forgot my camera so was'nt able to get some photos of those. i still used the new gaskets i've used last week.
Modified by ponzy at 9:40 PM 3/11/2007