Fuel Pump Issues on my 1990 Nissan 300zx, please help guys!

Nissan 300ZX technical discussion forum: Maintenance, performance, installations, modifications, how-to's and troubleshooting.
redcat_88
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2012 6:34 pm
Car: 1990 Nissan 300zx

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Hey guys, I'm having problems with my Nissan 300zx, the car won't start. I have already checked to see if the timing belt was either broken or out of time and it is fine. The car does not start and when I crank the engine there is a small backfire (explosion) from I think the fuel pump but Im not sure? :rolleyes: ...what do you guys think it might be? fuel pump, fuel injectors, fuel pump relay, fuses?? please help me guys!!


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300ZXttZMAN
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Car: 1990 300zx Twin Turbo 5 spd pearl white.

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Welcome to Nico! My name is Mark.

You should make an intro thread in the Z32 general section.

I saw that you posted in the Z32 tech section. Normally we try to encourage members not to double post but its alright cause your new to the forum.

Did your car show any signs of struggle before it just completely quit starting?

I highly doubt its the fuel pump.

Follow these instructions to see if you can eliminate the fuel pump as being an issue you can put a pressure sensor after the fuel filter on the drivers side fender well here is the instructions on how to set it up but you will notice he is driving the car you will just try to start it and watch the gauge.
Nick (ASH-SPEC) wrote: FUEL PRESSURE

In order to check the fuel rail pressure, you need a pressure sensor put inline with the fuel line to the fuel rail. The pressure sensor defined above will allow us to do this, but we have to connect it in. Since the fuel system always holds some degree of pressure, even when the car is not running, we must ensure that we don’t unhook a line a pour raw fuel into the atmosphere, or into a hot engine bay. We start first by cutting off the fuel to the filter as such.

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Since the rest of the system is also under pressure, we must clamp off the other side where we are going to disconnect the fuel line from and tie in the pressure gauge. We also use a rag here because even in this short piece of hose, there remains enough pressure to spew a catastrophic amount of fuel out and start a fire. Ideally, one would do this while the engine is cold. Relieving as much pressure as possible by removing the gas cap also helps.
Once done, place your rag as follows and loosen the hose clamp and remove the hose from the filter.

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In the VG30, as well as most other fuel injected vehicles, have an operating fuel pressure of ~3bar. 1bar = 14.5psi so 3bar is effectively ~43.5psi. The aspect that complicates this simplicity is the fact that the manifold is not always at 0psi. In fact, it is rarely at 0psi. Since the tip of the injectors is inside of the manifold, this means that the vacuum or pressure that the injector tip 'feels' also affects the fuel delivery. Since the ECU controls the duration of time that the injector is held open, it assumes that the fuel pressure is always the same, there must always be a 43.5psi differential between the fuel rail pressure and the manifold pressure. This is to ensure that no matter what vacuum/pressure the manifold is under, an 'x' millisecond pulse of the injector will always deliver the same amount of fuel. You can see what I mean here:

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Ok, now that you have everything connected, you are ready to test your fuel pressure. You can see in this picture that there is about 10psi of pressure on the gauge. The engine is not running here and hasn't been started since the install of the gauge, but you can now see why I pinched off the hoses. 10psi of fuel pressure will puke enough fuel to start a Sonny's BBQ in your driveway so BE SAFE!

Now, in this picture you can see that the fuel pressure is appx. 33.5psi. Remember the pressure differential I was talking about? Well, at idle, the manifold is at about -10psi of pressure. In order to maintain linear fuel delivery, there must always be approximately a 43.5psi pressure differential; so 35 + 10 = 45psi. We are good here.

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This next picture is a demonstration of how the fuel pressure regulator works. The hose I am holding in my hand is what connects the fuel pressure regulator to the manifold. The fuel pressure regulator is the device that maintains this 'pressure differential' such that the fuel delivery is linear per pulse-width of the injector. Since I have unplugged the FPR(fuel pressure regulator), the FPR 'thinks' the manifold is at 0psi. You can see here that the fuel pressure has now risen to ~44psi, as it should.

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I want to point out that since the fuel pressure control systems are a 'passive' system and not 'active', there will always be slight variations in fuel pressure from what you see here. However, there should not be anything greater than about a 5psi difference in these tests. This is primarily what makes the difference between one Z and the next - some fuel systems simply work a little better/worse than the next Z, but the actual effect on the system as a whole is marginal as long as there aren't large variances.

I have setup the fuel pressure gauge as well as a manifold pressure gauge to demonstrate how the fuel pressure regulation system works in finer detail.

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You can see here that the fuel pressure is slightly higher at 0psi of manifold pressure than it was in the original test. This is due to the fact that the ECU ALSO varies the fuel pump voltage (which affects its output). You can see here that at 45MPH with the manifold at 0psi, the fuel pressure is at 55psi. This is actually a little on the high side as we should be seeing a fuel rail pressure of ~44psi at 0psi of manifold pressure, but this is due to the fact that I am still using a non-turbo fuel pump controller in my car (my car was converted from non-turbo). However, this is not bad, if anything, it is simply safer. In this condition you should see at least 44psi at the fuel rail. If you see less than 44-45psi, you have a problem and it must be fixed.

In the following picture you can see that the manifold is at 5psi of pressure and we ALSO see that the fuel pressure has risen up from 55psi to 60psi. This is the fuel pressure regulator at work. Since the manifold is at 5psi more pressure, it also raises the fuel rail pressure so that the fuel delivery per injector pulse-width is consistent. This is important as the ECU is assuming that no matter what pressure the manifold is at, 'x' millisecond of injector pulse-width will ALWAYS deliver the same amount of fuel. This is very important when tuning a car too.

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The next test is running the engine at 7000RPM, which is at 95% of its operating range. You can see that the manifold pressure is at ~15psi and the fuel rail pressure is at ~65psi. This is 10psi more at the fuel rail than when the manifold was at 5psi of pressure. 55+10 = 65psi of fuel rail pressure. This is consistent with what we should see.

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IMPORTANT!! : The engine is running at 7000RPM here in the above photo. This is when the fuel system is at 95% of its expected delivery rate. You have to consider that as the engine RPM increases, so does the fuel rate. When I converted my non-turbo to turbo, I used the non-turbo fuel pump. It worked great at ~14psi. However, when I raised the boost to 16psi on the non-turbo pump, as the RPM increased to around 5500RPM, I began noticing the fuel pressure falling off all the way down to 45psi! This is VERY BAD! The reason this occurred is because the non-turbo fuel pump was unable to keep up with the demand of fuel at higher RPM. It maintained ~65psi until around 5000RPM and then sharply fell off at 5500RPM down to 45psi at the fuel rail. This is a catastrophic failure waiting to happen because when the fuel pressure falls, so does the fuel delivery. This is not a problem with the fuel pressure regulator; this was simply the non-turbo pump falling short of what was needed. I corrected this problem by putting a twin-turbo fuel pump into my car.

THIS IS THE PHENOMENON THAT YOU DO NOT WANT TO SEE!
You want to ensure that the fuel pressure is maintained ALL THE WAY THROUGH THE RPM RANGE that your engine operates within. If it does not maintain this pressure, the fuel delivery will fall and this will cause a lean condition. Lean conditions lead to detonation, broken pistons, burned valves, and catastrophic engine failure.

This test concludes the 'fuel delivery' aspect. If your fuel system does not maintain proper pressure, you simply need a bigger pump.

-Ash Powers
ASH-SPEC Performance & Tuning
Good luck! Let us know the results.

:bigthumb:

redcat_88
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2012 6:34 pm
Car: 1990 Nissan 300zx

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Hey Mark,thank you so much for the reply. I will definetly begin to post where you mentioned I should and discontinue posting more than twice. Your reply was really helpful and you were right, it wasn't the fuel pump itself, the fuel pressure sensor read the correct psi, as it should. But I continue to have the same problem, you mentioned that you didn't think it was the fuel pump to begin with, what do you think my problem is? Before the car quit on me, I didn't have any prior issues...

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Welcome to NICO. I'm going to move this thread to the Z32 forums where others can chime in if needed.

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300ZXttZMAN
Posts: 7807
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 4:07 pm
Car: 1990 300zx Twin Turbo 5 spd pearl white.

My Daily: 2008 Frontier NISMO package, 4x4 Crew Cab.
Location: Sulphur, LA 70665
Contact:

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I personally think its the injectors based off my experience its not uncommon for the early style injectors to just crap out sometimes more than one which is more than likely the case in your sitituation since the car can still run on 5 cyclinders.

Basically there is no real answer as to what the problem is. What you have to do is just start trouble shooting and most like to start at the cheapest/easiest then work your way up as needed.. Which I will try and help you with as much as I can since your new. :)

Alright so now what you want to do is follow this step-by-step process:

First you need to bookmark this site. Its very useful and many many many people still use it today.

Now do this. Read the entire second post then follow the steps. You will need another hand and instead of using a screwdriver might I suggest you go purchase one of these (should be able to find one at any parts house) since you are going to have the engine turning over and it will be louder the stethoscope will help cancel out some background noise. But the flip side to that is since the engine is not running on its own it may be so loud that the stethescope allows you to hear way to many things. Which in turn will cause you to not be able to "dial in" and listen for the tick of the injectors so you may have to use the screw driver. If both of those methods fail then put the tip of the stethoscope on the metal shaft of the screwdriver as far away as possible from the engine and see if that helps.

Then let me know what you find out and we will take it from there.

Good luck!

:bigthumb:


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