OK guys and Gals,
First off lemme apologize as this may be considerd long, but anyone who can offer aid in this scenario will need the info.
I have the entire engine back together on my KA24DET project and here is why I stand (in deep **** lol). I have tried starting the car several times, always with the same result. The car will idle for about 5-10 seconds at a time, is unresponsive to accelerator movement and won't go above about 1000 rpms before it dies out on me. It always starts right back up, but just will not stay running. The timing is set to 20 BTDC and here are the following conditions:
I have pulled the plugs and they are charred black and SOAKED with fuel. I have let the engine stand for a period with the plugs out to 'dry up' and retried with the same result each time. I have a code grabber and have pulled a very bizarre code which does not appear in my Factory Service Manual.
Code is: P1105 Fuel Pressure Solenoid Malfunction<Mitsubishi 2.0L Engine(Turbo)Engine(Turbo)Engine. This is exactly how it appears on my data scanner.
My Setup is thus:
1. 255 LPH High Pressure Walbro Intank Fuel Pump2. Denso 660cc Side Feed Injectors in Stock Fuel Rail3. JWT ECU Programmed for 660cc injectors and Z32 MAF4. Z32 MAF5. 8.0:1 Forged Pistons/Forged Rods6. T03/T04 Hybrid Stage III wheel/.48 Housing7. Blackstone FMIC
I have spoken several times with the folks at JWT and all the way through this project I was told I would be fine without a FMU or RRFPR. I am starting to wonder if this is correct since I seem to be DUMPING fuel into the engine.
Any ideas? Anyone else experienced this problem? If so, what can I do to solve it, or better yet could anyone provide me with a 'ladder' of processes to go through to try and locate the actual problem?
If you need more info please let me know, my brain is mush right about now so I may have inadvertently omitted something vital.
Any help would be invaluable!!
Thanks!
Marc
Fuel Problems
I dont have any stand alone or piggy back systems in place. I am going to be running 15-20 psi, this engine was built from the ground up for it. Thanks for checking the thread out and trying to help me brother, I am at a loss on what to do with this vehicle 
My last turbo car was a '86 Grand National and they only EVER do so much before they blow up LOL
Thanks again!
My last turbo car was a '86 Grand National and they only EVER do so much before they blow up LOLThanks again!
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s14inwashington
- Posts: 13
- Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2003 1:38 am
Hey, we just did a turbo KA at my shop with 550cc Blitz SR20DET injectors and it had a similar problem. Youre dumping way too much fuel because you have NO way to adjust the fuel pressure. even with any reprogrammed ECU, ecen if the injector duty or signal is changed, the walbro still pumps like a mother. I have a fuel rail that i modded for an external FPR. i cut the stock one off the rail and welded an elbow on and ran a SARD adjustable FPR mounted to the firewall and it ran perfect. the fuel pressure was so incredibly high it wouldnt even start, that was the problem. I have seen civics with the same problem. Try putting in the OEM injectors to limit the fuel and see what happens. I can sell you one of my custon fuel rails, let me know what happens with this situation.
I'd say get ahold of a FPR, hook it up on a higher setting and see how it comes out. You are definetly dumping way too much fuel into the engine, tuning it down will be the key. You also might want to look into a S-AFC or something like that for some fine tuning, sounds like you've got the budget for it.
From what I have seen and heard from reliable sources...the walbro pumps don't pump enough to overrun the stock FPR at idle...only the Z32 pumps.
If it was my car...these are the things I'd check...1st, TPS voltage at idle and WOT. 2nd. MAF voltage when it idles.
Is this an S13 or S14? Are you sure the MAF ground wire is good? Will it crank with the MAF unplugged? Give me some more info and maybe I can help.
Dennis
If it was my car...these are the things I'd check...1st, TPS voltage at idle and WOT. 2nd. MAF voltage when it idles.
Is this an S13 or S14? Are you sure the MAF ground wire is good? Will it crank with the MAF unplugged? Give me some more info and maybe I can help.
Dennis
OK gang here is what I have tried so far. Called Ben at JWT again and he told me to check leakage around the injectors by pulling the fuel rail from the intake and leaving it hooked up, then turning on the key to see if there is leakage=NONE. I have checked MAF wiring once again and still looks good. So it seems the overall opinion here is FPR? I am plumbing in a fuel pressure gauge tomorrow to see if there is something nutso like 5-6 bar of fuel pressure. I am going to try one last wiring trick Ben told me about, I will keep you guys apraised of the situation. Thanks for all the input, its nice to have somewhere to go and ask questions and receive knowledgeable answers OH for the record gang, its a 96 so an S14..would have rather had an S13 but this one had 12k miles on it and I got it for $6200...just one of those deals ya can't pass up!
Thanks again!
Marc
OH for the record gang, its a 96 so an S14..would have rather had an S13 but this one had 12k miles on it and I got it for $6200...just one of those deals ya can't pass up!Thanks again!
Marc
I disagree...the ECU is designed to run the injectors at stock fuel pressure. The size of injectors doesn't play any role in whether the fuel pumped by the fuel pump at stock fuel pressure will overrun the fuel pressure regulator. With injectors larger than 50lb, the minimum open time may still be a little bit longer than you would want, but a) the car will still run and b) lowering the fuel pressure wouldn't be the solution, since that would lower the amount of fuel given everywhere, not just at idle.
I still think it is something other than the fuel pressure or fuel pressure regulator, for what it is worth. Chase that down until you don't think that is it...then I'll be happy to help. If that is your problem...then I guess I was wrong. Only time will tell.
Dennis
I still think it is something other than the fuel pressure or fuel pressure regulator, for what it is worth. Chase that down until you don't think that is it...then I'll be happy to help. If that is your problem...then I guess I was wrong. Only time will tell.
Dennis
OK! We have some progress! The car will now idle for as long as I want it to, it just won't take any accelerator at all. The fuel pressure gauge I plumbed inline show 41 lbs at idle with the vacuum line to the regulator remove. Fuel pressure seems within limits correct? I am going to check ignition timing next just to see if it could be off by that much to make it unresponsive. Any further thoughts? Please continue to toss in anything you think MAY be important as your advice thus far has gotten me over one hump!!!
Thanks Gang!
Marc
Thanks Gang!
Marc
WD, for some reason the car didn't 'like' my wiring setup. All I did was desolder the MAF, remove the negative on the battery to reset the ECU, then resolder MAF, then rehook ECU, for some reason that 'cleared' whatever the issue was. NateDogg thanks for the advice, much easier way to check for leaks that's for sure!
Also, further progress! I got my timing light out and set the timing again to 20 degrees BTDC on the dot which brought the life back into it, then I rerouted the MAF to give it a longer run before the intake, now about 18" by using my old Injen CAI to mount the MAF to. For some reason it seems to like this setup, the car is taking accelerator now and has responsiveness again. Can't really explain that one, I know they should be at least 6" from the intake, but now it is running like a champ. It is still pig rich, but I think a SAFC will solve that problem if I need it to later on. I am going to get this thing tuned in some tomorrow on the street, then make an appointment with Passen Motorsports in Columbus to get some dyno time in for some real tuning. I will keep you guys posted on what it does and maybe post the dyno sheet if anyone would be interested in seeing the numbers? Thanks to everyone that offered aid on this scenario, it was a huge help in itself, plus made me run through things in my mind that could be adjusted and it has paid off
Two things I would ask you all to ponder on for me if you dont mind:
1. I am now getting like 40 psi on fuel pressure at idle, not 43.5 which is baseline and also what Ben at JWT mentioned. Is this going to be a problem?
2. Has anyone else seen an extremely rich condition like this with a similar setup? Also kind of confusing that it is that rich, being that the fuel pressure is down 3.5 psi. Any thoughts?
Thanks again all!!
Marc
Also, further progress! I got my timing light out and set the timing again to 20 degrees BTDC on the dot which brought the life back into it, then I rerouted the MAF to give it a longer run before the intake, now about 18" by using my old Injen CAI to mount the MAF to. For some reason it seems to like this setup, the car is taking accelerator now and has responsiveness again. Can't really explain that one, I know they should be at least 6" from the intake, but now it is running like a champ. It is still pig rich, but I think a SAFC will solve that problem if I need it to later on. I am going to get this thing tuned in some tomorrow on the street, then make an appointment with Passen Motorsports in Columbus to get some dyno time in for some real tuning. I will keep you guys posted on what it does and maybe post the dyno sheet if anyone would be interested in seeing the numbers? Thanks to everyone that offered aid on this scenario, it was a huge help in itself, plus made me run through things in my mind that could be adjusted and it has paid off
Two things I would ask you all to ponder on for me if you dont mind:
1. I am now getting like 40 psi on fuel pressure at idle, not 43.5 which is baseline and also what Ben at JWT mentioned. Is this going to be a problem?
2. Has anyone else seen an extremely rich condition like this with a similar setup? Also kind of confusing that it is that rich, being that the fuel pressure is down 3.5 psi. Any thoughts?
Thanks again all!!
Marc
If your fuel pressure is low, I'd question the gauge. The stock FPRs are pretty good. Another alternative would be to swap in another...in case something messed that one up. The only way it could be something other than the gauge or the FPR is if the pump just isn't pumping enough (bad pump, low voltage to pump, or restriction in fuel lines). If that is the case, when you get into boost, the fuel pressure won't go up as it should.
It may be a little rich just because of the size of the injectors. If the minimum open time for the injectors causes them to dump more fuel than you'd like, then it'll run rich at idle. That isn't anything to really worry about.
But the low fuel pressure isn't going to cause much of a change in fuel given...since fuel flow is related to the square root of pressure drop...so if fuel pressure actually is 40 instead of 43.5, then you are going to be sqrt (3.5/43.5) *100% = .647% off, which is negligible.
What do you know...he didn't need an adjustable fuel pressure regulator.
Dennis
It may be a little rich just because of the size of the injectors. If the minimum open time for the injectors causes them to dump more fuel than you'd like, then it'll run rich at idle. That isn't anything to really worry about.
But the low fuel pressure isn't going to cause much of a change in fuel given...since fuel flow is related to the square root of pressure drop...so if fuel pressure actually is 40 instead of 43.5, then you are going to be sqrt (3.5/43.5) *100% = .647% off, which is negligible.
What do you know...he didn't need an adjustable fuel pressure regulator.
Dennis
Damn Dennis, you got this fuel thing goin on man Thanks for the advice! Probably is the gauge, but if its that negligible I wont worry about it. I have full plethora of gauges in car to keep an eye on things, so we'll play it by ear. Any experience with the SAFC? I used one on my 2002 WRX and had great results since they run pig rich too. Probably will end up with another one in this car at a future date just to get the max out of it and still be able to run safely, the SAFC gives alot of control like that. *we bow down and give thanks to God for EGR guages*. 
More to follow!
Marc
Thanks for the advice! Probably is the gauge, but if its that negligible I wont worry about it. I have full plethora of gauges in car to keep an eye on things, so we'll play it by ear. Any experience with the SAFC? I used one on my 2002 WRX and had great results since they run pig rich too. Probably will end up with another one in this car at a future date just to get the max out of it and still be able to run safely, the SAFC gives alot of control like that. *we bow down and give thanks to God for EGR guages*. More to follow!Marc
Make sure you really need the AFC before you get it...ie run the car under boost on the dyno with a wideband O2.
If it runs rich at idle because the injectors are big, and their min open time is more fuel than you need, then an AFC can't fix that. If it runs rich under WOT, then that is the sort of thing you can adjust with an AFC.
Thanks for the compliment. I just try to help and give sound advice. Besides, I have a turbo KA (and a great memory), so I have been through a bunch of this stuff as well.
Thanks,
Dennis Kalman
If it runs rich at idle because the injectors are big, and their min open time is more fuel than you need, then an AFC can't fix that. If it runs rich under WOT, then that is the sort of thing you can adjust with an AFC.
Thanks for the compliment. I just try to help and give sound advice. Besides, I have a turbo KA (and a great memory), so I have been through a bunch of this stuff as well.
Thanks,
Dennis Kalman