Fuel Management

[Valdis]

What would you guys suggest for fuel management? I've never had a car tuned before but it's my understanding that you need some kind of fuel management unit to have this done.
Is the APEXi Super AFC NEO Engine Management system any good?
Am I correct about needing something like this to have my car dyno tuned?

EDIT: I have been told to "chip the ECU".. not sure what that means. Would doing that be a better option then getting an AFC controller?

Thanks,

[NolimitZ32]

Everything you need to know about your Z32: everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-z32-t508376.html

[Valdis]

Everything you need to know about your Z32: everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-z32-t508376.html

Already checked there... didn't find the answer to my question.
Did not find anything about tuning or fuel management systems...how about pointing me in the right direction?

[Valdis]

Thanks for all the help NolimitZ32 ... As always, a well of information.
I found my answer on another forum so no need to rack your brain over this horribly difficult question.

[Ace2cool]

Hey smartass, it is in there. "destroying the world in your z32: tuning tips" under the subcategory of "the cheap stuff." Not our fault you want to be spoon fed the answer.

[Valdis]

Hey smartass, it is in there. "destroying the world in your z32: tuning tips" under the subcategory of "the cheap stuff." Not our fault you want to be spoon fed the answer.

Better then being a dumbass I guess.
I asked about the APEXi Super AFC NEO Engine Management system and if that was a good option..no response just a link
I then asked if getting a reprogrammed ECU would be a better option then getting an AFC controller? ... again, no response just a link.

I thought my question was specific enough to get an answer.... Such as "This is what I use" or "No, don't get that.. get this instead"..
It's really sad when the most effort someone will give is in response to me being a "smartass". If someone asks me a question and I know the answer, I'll give the answer, not post a link to have them try to sift through. It's like if someone asked me a networking question and responded with a link to the Cisco website.
I've already told you that I'm not a mechanic and know very little about cars, I went through that article and found nothing about fuel management, there is a small section on ECU's but there's nothing there that tells me which would be the better option between the 2.

[Ace2cool]

Generally, if the only thing we talk about is one thing, that's the best option. We won't even consider offering the other option. That's just how a forum works man.

I'm sorry, but Anton is a very knowledgeable member on here, and often responds to posts with very helpful information, and your response to him was a bit coarse. To go as far as underlining his SN and posting regarding him in a very sarcastic response, then to follow up with the fact that you found the information on a different forum is very disrespectful. Very smartassed.

[Valdis]

Generally, if the only thing we talk about is one thing, that's the best option. We won't even consider offering the other option. That's just how a forum works man.

That's the issue I'm bringing up.. Nobody "talked" about either option.. just a link.
I know how forums work and just posting a link is lazy and insulting... Unless the article linked to is a direct reference to what was asked. In this case if the link would have led to an article called "Fuel Management systems vs ECU maps" or something to that effect, the link would have been valid.
Hell, even a simple copy/paste of the valid info would have made a world of difference.
You may call this "spoonfed", I call it "common courtesy".

What I found out last night and what I was told here today, is the same advice.. so I'm glad the recommendations are the same.

[ThisIsSparTTa]

I'd just lock the thread before this turns into too much s*** slinging. OP should first consider a flashed ECU. JWT and SpecialtyZ are 2 of the highly respected guys, but certainly there are others out there. Greg@SpecialtyZ was especially helpful with some extra questions I had, and went above and beyond IMO. You can get an AFC after the fact if you want, but you need to know what you're doing with them, and need to hop on a dyno to get the proper settings. A better solution would be trying to get a "group buy" on one of these tuners to come out to your area and they will adapt their stock program specifically to your car on a dyno to get the best possible results.

[Z-owned]

haltech would be the only stand alone really worth considering otherwise nistune or a pre-programed chip from someone like already mentioned, SZ, jwt, ztuner, ash etc. are you best options

[Valdis]

I'd just lock the thread before this turns into too much s*** slinging. OP should first consider a flashed ECU. JWT and SpecialtyZ are 2 of the highly respected guys, but certainly there are others out there. Greg@SpecialtyZ was especially helpful with some extra questions I had, and went above and beyond IMO. You can get an AFC after the fact if you want, but you need to know what you're doing with them, and need to hop on a dyno to get the proper settings. A better solution would be trying to get a "group buy" on one of these tuners to come out to your area and they will adapt their stock program specifically to your car on a dyno to get the best possible results.

I called Greg and asked him about this (your group buy idea)... I know they travel around the country to car shows and events. When I spoke to Greg he said the closest he's coming to Wichita is St. Louis.
I was also going to check in to shipping my car to Greg, have them tune it and ship it back to me.
It was suggested to me not to do that because the cost per hp gained vs. getting a preprogrammed chip would not be worth the $$.

Sounds like I'm going to get my ECU flashed by SZ. Right now I have a '96 ECU but that will be changed to a '95 here very soon... I'll just have him flash it before he ships it to me.

Thanks for all the advice, from everyone.

[Z-owned]

96 with obdII may have you a little screwed as i dont think you can just throw in a ecu from a 95 etc, may want to talk to Greg about that.

[Ace2cool]

^This. Update your info so we can accurately provide information. There's not a whole lot out there for the 96, as the OBDII version of the car was only sold in the US for one year. You definitely can't just swap out ECU's.

[Valdis]

96 with obdII may have you a little screwed as i dont think you can just throw in a ecu from a 95 etc, may want to talk to Greg about that.

Already have, Greg has it all worked out for me.

This is the email from Greg....

You want to have functional VTC to have a good power band.

Here is what would be required to make it all work as plug and play.......

JWT 500 cams $950
JWT HD valve Springs $350
BDE early VTC Sprocket pair $475
Early VTC front cover plate pair with hardware (used) $10
VTC O-rings $5
JWT Cam adaptors $25
JWT VTC springs $14
VTC solenoid Right $158
VTC solenoid Left $158
Wiring specialties ECU harness $425
Early used ECU $300
Socket and program ECU $200
Intake Valve Cover gaskets Pair $36
Upper manifold gasket $8

Shipping ground would run about $30

$3200 for the parts, which I have... just saving for installation fees. This will add VTC to the '96 I have, upgrade the cams past stock (90-95 TT) cams and would replace the '96 ECU with a '95 ECU.
I'm probably going to have 3" SZ downpipes and 3" to 2.5" SZ testpipes installed at the same time.

On 4/26 I'm taking my car to the local performance shop to get my Greddy profec b spec 2 boost controller installed... then I'll take it to the local dyno to get some base whp and trq numbers (before I have the cams, vtc, DP's and TP's installed). I have also purchased some used Stillen 2.0 SMIC's, was thinking about having them install these at the same time as the boost controller.

[NolimitZ32]

Thanks Aaron but there are some members I've given up on. I spent the better time of 2 years digging and reading, "just a link" like the one we have here on NICO is something I would've killed for, but then I'm an automotive enthusiast and want to know EVERYTHING about my hobby, hence why I hand-built my Z in my garage. I don't take offense, Ron White said "can't fix stupid" well a lot of the time I find that you "can't fix self-righteous douche" either. Valdis I hope to go you appreciate your car and that you continue to only let professionals touch it because it's obvious you don't have the desire to learn enough to do anything yourself and you do own a beautiful specimen of a car that I would be very sad to see treated badly.

[Valdis]

Valdis I hope to go you appreciate your car and that you continue to only let professionals touch it because it's obvious you don't have the desire to learn enough to do anything yourself and you do own a beautiful specimen of a car that I would be very sad to see treated badly.

You got that right, IF I wanted to learn enough to do anything myself... then I would. I have said previously that I have other interests/hobbies and I pursue those. Car engines have never been high on my interest level so I never took the time to learn them.
Nobody loves my car more than I do, that's a fact. I would never do anything that would hurt her... so that is why I DON'T work on her
Thanks for the compliments on my beautiful car, to me it's not worth tearing her apart just to learn. I'm not that curious.

And chill out with the name calling, there's no need for that.

BTW, you can give up on me all you want. I really don't care. Though I do want to apologize for the "Smartass" comment I direct towards you eariler... there was no need for that.

[A Paratroopers 300zx]

Just an observation...

It takes a certain kind of person to respond like you did, Valdis. I commend you for keeping your cool and not letting this thread turn into a heated pissing match. Well done sir! Everyone has their own learning style and some are extremely hands on like myself and Nolimit, where others aren't.

It sounds like you have the pocket book to afford having someone else do all the work. That's perfectly fine... as long as it's not a hack job and you don't get screwed! SZ is one of the best contributors to this market with a fortune of knowledge, so I know that won't happen haha.

I can't wait to see what you have in store for this mistress of yours!

[NolimitZ32]

As they say here in the outback, "No Worries Mate" as for the fuel management, simply put, you can use pretty much any piggyback, out of the piggybacks the Apexi units are definitely the best (if you know what you are doing) but if you want peace of mind and no ability to screw things up I'd say go with Nistune.

[Ace2cool]

Can we all have a hug now?

Morgan nailed it. Valdis, very cool response. I'm glad to have you as a member of the community. I apologize for my comments earlier as well.

[NolimitZ32]

[Valdis]

Just wanted to give an update on the current progress of changing my '96 to a '95+.

According to Greg, I need to install VTC... doing this will give me better power in low-mid rpms.

I called my local performance shop and they told me NOT to install VTC.. the reason given to me was this:: For the amount of power I'm going for (500-550whp) I will not need VTC. He told me that when they tune cars with a bunch of power VTC is not used much at all.

I called SZ and spoke with Seb, when I told him what the performance shop told me.. Seb's exact words were "RUN, DON'T WALK AWAY, RUN!!" He told me that was horrible advice and not true at all. (I tend to trust Seb's advice on this)

Seb then gave me an email address of a person who is kinda local (Nebraska, I live in Kansas).. Seb tells me the guy does not own a shop but he does these kinds of things all the time. If Seb trusts him, I do to. I wrote him and just waiting for a response.

So now I'm trying to find a shop or individual who KNOWS what they are doing!! Anyone who can make a recommendation, please do.
If I have to ship my car to SZ to get this done correctly, that is what I'll do. So I'm at a stopping point for now, until I can find a top notch shop. If none are found, I'll be looking for a transport company soon.

[Valdis]

LOL

[Ace2cool]

Like I said, you need to update your info. Car year and location helps us out a lot. Where are you located?

[Valdis]

I've updated my location and car year.... I'm in Wichita, KS

[Ace2cool]

Oh. Yeah. That's gonna be a hard one to find a good shop near. And the cost of shipping a car to SZ is gonna be ballpark of $2K. Hm. I'd say Z1 would be closer, but if you're going that far, then SZ is the better option by far. I don't really know anything north of the mason-dixon line, though.

[Valdis]

Oh. Yeah. That's gonna be a hard one to find a good shop near. And the cost of shipping a car to SZ is gonna be ballpark of $2K. Hm. I'd say Z1 would be closer, but if you're going that far, then SZ is the better option by far. I don't really know anything north of the mason-dixon line, though.

This guy that Seb recommended in Nebraska sounds really good. I've been chatting with him and he knows what he's about. The Branson Z Fest is coming up and he is very busy right now, then when he gets back from Branson he has a an aftermarket mid pipe and Cobb retune on a 2011 GTR, then he'll be able to get me in.
So that will give me time to save up for the other mods he recommened for me... he asked if I wanted him to do the coolant bypass from the throttlebodies (I said "sure"). He wanted to know if the intake had ever been pulled before? ( I don't know what he means by this)..

This is the first part of his message:

Yes I am qualified to do everything you have listed and honestly the hardest part will be installing the new harness in the thick firewall... well... "wall". In terms of adding VTCs I believe the 96' heads have accommodations for them to bolt on but that is a Seb question. It's funny I just had the conversation earlier today on why not to buy a 1996. LOL! The OBDII stuff really scares everyone off I think it's cool you are doing it.

For my goals he suggested the JWT 530's instead of the JWT 700's..

The JWT700s are kind of overkill to make 500-550 WHP yes they will do it however a smaller turbo like a JWT530 or GT600 from Z1 would be plenty and probably less lag so more low end spool up. I probably wouldn't suggest doing the MS Manifolds yet unless you are upgrading turbos though just from a cost savings aspect. You have to pull the turbos off to change the manifold...so you might as well bolt bigger ones on at the same time. You also can't run bigger turbos without larger injectors.

So he suggested I get:

2.5" intercooler plumbing, Ash massives, and larger throttle bodies can all be done without upgrading the turbos especially since the stock 2" is even inefficient on stock T25 turbos. The Stillen intercoolers will help some but the larger 2 and 1/2" stuff is a leap by comparison power wise.

The stock fuel pump is good for over 600WHP so you should be good for awhile unless you just want to be preventative and and put in a new stock one down the road. I am just under 700WHP (on race gas) and now I am upgrading to a second fuel pump to push onto 800+WHP.

The good news is you have the 95+ fuel rail and newer style injector clips so all you will need is 740cc injectors and new OEM o-rings. (These I would definitely do now if budget allows especially since you are getting an ECU with a socketed Eprom...they can put the new tune in now for the injectors.

He told me that since he'll have to pull the engine, his base price is $1000 and we'll go from there. In all honesty, I think he will be cheaper then the local performance shop and will do much better work. Shipping from Kansas to Nebraska is also very attractive.. IMO, the fact that Seb recommended him says a lot.

EDIT: Tell me what you guys think, I think he sounds like knows what he's doing. But then again, I don't know anything about cars and it would be really easy to BS me, did he say anything that sounds questionable or just plain bad advice??

[Ace2cool]

Yeah man, if Seb recommends someone, he's legit.

And that list looks pretty accurate as well. But like I said, I don't know how EPROM works on a 96. OBDII is greek to me. I'm used to swap the chip, new tune, lmao.

[Valdis]

Yeah man, if Seb recommends someone, he's legit.

And that list looks pretty accurate as well. But like I said, I don't know how EPROM works on a 96. OBDII is greek to me. I'm used to swap the chip, new tune, lmao.

That's pretty much the plan. We are going to swap the '96 wiring harness with a '95 harness and put a '95 ECU in the car.

I did speak with someone at JWT and they told me that they have a '96 chip that will support VTC... if so that will save me a ton of money. I'm going to check around about this.

I also need to add that I got my GReddy Profec B Spec II installed yesterday, I was able to play with it for a little bit. Very confusing to me, I was able to find a guide online and it looks pretty solid, it will at least give me somewhere to start.