I've been informed by a mechanic (not technician per say according to Q45Tech's standard), that my '91 Q needs to have the injectors replaced due to misfire problems. This contributes to slight steering column/wheel vibrations & hesitation upon stepping on the gas (even if lightly depressed). Is this an accurate diagnostic? The mechanic didn't actually hook up any device to look into error codes, but based on his knowledge and experience he indicated that this is the most probable cause. I had another mechanic look at the car about 6 months ago while reporting the same problem, and he actually hooked up some device which reported no error codes. This previous mechanic also told me that the car had good compression, so I'm more inclined on keeping the car. Can't find a good Q45 mechanic so far in northern CA...
The current mechanic also inform me that it'll be best to perform a tune-up at this same time. Is there any other recommended jobs that I need to perform at this time, if indeed I will thru with the repairs since it'll be quite an expensive bill? According to the threads I've research, it seems that this car will eventually need: 1) chain guide replacement, 2) plenum hose replacements, 3)addition of a TCU, etc. I'd appreciate any feedback and advise.
Would you recommend looking into used parts from the salvage yard since the injectors are quite expensive to get for these luxury Qs? I got a quote from Joe for $143/per injector, and as you know I need 8. I assume one wouldn't normally recomend replacing only one or two out of eight injectors since this might negatively affect engine performance and legivity as a result of mixing old + new parts, right? That's a $1144 bill for the injectors alone, and who know what kind of other hoses and gaskets it may need when the guy gets through putting the engine back together. Any thought fellas?
Fuel Injector Replacement on '91 Q
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Q45tech
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1995 G20t 5 speed 334,000 miles 16" 2002 wheels - 205/50/16 Sr20ve vvl
Get the to an expert for diagnosis! One who has a Consult to do the POWER BALANCE TEST..........injectors should only be changed if they fail the resistance test [12 +- 1 ohm] or they leak........otherwise they can be eventually cleaned on the car.
Now California gasoline doesn't comply with the orginal injector design specs, so failures are more common..........but be sure before you change them.
Try A can of BG44k injector cleaner [no substitutions*] 3 tanks full in a row before you go replacing them.
24-32 ounces of Techron per 22 gallons might come close for 3 tankfulls.
Never trust used injectors, they may be worse than what you have.
Eventually needs plenum work so you have to equate the repeat labor or just change all $2100 worth of knock sensors, harnesses, hoses, and injectors at the same time.
I would always change the guides FIRST as a broken in engine is pretty worthless.
Now California gasoline doesn't comply with the orginal injector design specs, so failures are more common..........but be sure before you change them.
Try A can of BG44k injector cleaner [no substitutions*] 3 tanks full in a row before you go replacing them.
24-32 ounces of Techron per 22 gallons might come close for 3 tankfulls.
Never trust used injectors, they may be worse than what you have.
Eventually needs plenum work so you have to equate the repeat labor or just change all $2100 worth of knock sensors, harnesses, hoses, and injectors at the same time.
I would always change the guides FIRST as a broken in engine is pretty worthless.
I think I tried one of your suggestions already Q45tech (or should I refer to you as Dennis). I listened to another Infiniti dealership mechanic, and poured 2 Techron bottles (not sure how many ounces that equates to) into each tank-full of gas and repeat the process twice in a row. That didn't seem to solve the problem, and interestingly enough all that did was create a horrible continuous gas smell in my cabin for what seemed like two months; in fact, the gas smell is still there from time to time and I noticed that it subsides but never completely go away when I turn ON the air (either ECON or AUTO). Could it be because the air rushing into the cabin from the air ducts overwhelm the existing gas/fuel smell? I don't know...but lowering the window doesn't seem to get the gas smell out of the cabin either...only turning on the climate control helps. My greatest fear is that the fuel smell will always be present, but just that I'm not noticing it until it gets strong. If that's the case, I'm in fact inhailing tons of brain-damaging fuel additives everytime I take the Q for a drive...
BTW, is it strongly recommended that I save my greens and replace the chain guides before investing into injector replacements as you've suggested? In an ideal world, I would have the money to replace both at the same time but practically what are my options? In terms of repeated labor cost you're referring to, does the scope of work involved for a "chain guide replacement" and an "injector replacement job" essentially the same thing?
BTW, is it strongly recommended that I save my greens and replace the chain guides before investing into injector replacements as you've suggested? In an ideal world, I would have the money to replace both at the same time but practically what are my options? In terms of repeated labor cost you're referring to, does the scope of work involved for a "chain guide replacement" and an "injector replacement job" essentially the same thing?
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Q45tech
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1995 G20t 5 speed 334,000 miles 16" 2002 wheels - 205/50/16 Sr20ve vvl
Totally different things, no overlapping work other than driving car into the bay [on the lift].
Sounds like you have fuel hose leaks in one or more of the under plenum fuel rail connections [there are 5] that self seals when the rubber transitions from cold to hot under hood.
We charge $500 plus parts to change all the 30 or so air, water and fuel hoses under the plenum, then another $70 plus $400 for knock sensors, then your injectors [$1400] say another hour or two, now chain guides $1100 [no oil pan drop] and valve covers [$500-$600].
Everything wrong about the engine might run $4500..........about 26 book hours of non overlapping work .
The under plenum hoses have a life of around 80 -100k or 7 years which ever comes first. By 200,000 miles I had replaced mine twice and fully expect to do it again before 300,000 miles.The knock sensor last to around 180k [9 years].
Driving a car into the ground then chosing to repair sure puts a squeeze on the wallet.
If the car needs all injectors and all the other work I outlined you might be better cutting you losses and getting into something you can afford...........think carefully about dumping $5,000* into a 14 year old car.
* Dealers might charge $7,000 for the work I described.
Sounds like you have fuel hose leaks in one or more of the under plenum fuel rail connections [there are 5] that self seals when the rubber transitions from cold to hot under hood.
We charge $500 plus parts to change all the 30 or so air, water and fuel hoses under the plenum, then another $70 plus $400 for knock sensors, then your injectors [$1400] say another hour or two, now chain guides $1100 [no oil pan drop] and valve covers [$500-$600].
Everything wrong about the engine might run $4500..........about 26 book hours of non overlapping work .
The under plenum hoses have a life of around 80 -100k or 7 years which ever comes first. By 200,000 miles I had replaced mine twice and fully expect to do it again before 300,000 miles.The knock sensor last to around 180k [9 years].
Driving a car into the ground then chosing to repair sure puts a squeeze on the wallet.
If the car needs all injectors and all the other work I outlined you might be better cutting you losses and getting into something you can afford...........think carefully about dumping $5,000* into a 14 year old car.
* Dealers might charge $7,000 for the work I described.
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HeavyDuty
- Posts: 1281
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- Car: 1995 Infiniti Q45
95 Nissan 240SX S14
96 Nissan D21
06 Nissan 350Z Z33
Since you live in San Fran, may I make a suggestion on the injectors?
Pull one of the injector connectors off & look inside at the female spade (where it connects to the injector) for green Gra-doo. Frequently 300ZX's 90-96, as well as my car needed replacement injector plugs and a thorough cleaning of the tabs on the injector.
When I bought mine, it was the difference between limping to the shop & driving it home vs leaving it there & bumming a ride.
Also, notice how tightly the spade fits back on the injector. If when you remove the spring loaded f*** clip...
(I call them f*** clips because that's what I say when they go flying during removal)
If the clip is off & it doesn't push on tightly, take a small scribe & bend the spade slightly to creat more tension. That will make a huge difference, too.
Hope that helped, but Tech is right, make sure it is an injector issue and not a guess before spending money on needless stuff.
Pull one of the injector connectors off & look inside at the female spade (where it connects to the injector) for green Gra-doo. Frequently 300ZX's 90-96, as well as my car needed replacement injector plugs and a thorough cleaning of the tabs on the injector.
When I bought mine, it was the difference between limping to the shop & driving it home vs leaving it there & bumming a ride.
Also, notice how tightly the spade fits back on the injector. If when you remove the spring loaded f*** clip...
(I call them f*** clips because that's what I say when they go flying during removal)
If the clip is off & it doesn't push on tightly, take a small scribe & bend the spade slightly to creat more tension. That will make a huge difference, too.
Hope that helped, but Tech is right, make sure it is an injector issue and not a guess before spending money on needless stuff.
tkd_q45 wrote:Last time I did one they were around $100 a piece. Best to bite the bullet and do all 8 while you have the plenum off.
TKD - I got a quote from Joe just a couple days ago for $142 + some odd cents (basically $143/each). Where did you get yours for $100. I would order that right away if that's the case. It's a difference of paying $1100+ or $800. Could you let me know?
Q45tech wrote:Try A can of BG44k injector cleaner [no substitutions*] 3 tanks full in a row before you go replacing them.
Q45tech - one last question. If I try the procedure you've suggested above, I should pour one BG44k into each full tank and repeat the process 3 times, right? Now, would I get better results doing this while driving freeway miles so that the engine is constantly warm? Would the outcome be less desirable if I drive the three tank-fulls in city driving?
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boomstriker
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If a Q has a miss, I would bet 10-1 odds it's the injectors, and not because their clogged.They start failing at 100k miles and get worse as it goes up.Seldom is it a clog but high resistance from failing coils, so tank additives and 'on-car' cleaning won't help you.They will be worse at idle when the DC is the shortest.They may still open with 40-50 ohms but start missing at idle when they get over 60-70 hot. Over 120 ohms they will quit all together.If it reads higher than 15 ohms, replace it.
There are a million so called remanufactures out there on the web selling 'rebuilt' injectors cheap. DON'T BUY THESE!!! They are no more than someone elses high mile returns that measure in spec and are cleaned, but won't last long and aren't matched.
If money is no object, go ahead and replace all the hoses, sensors and harnesses under the intake, but it's certainly not necessary.I would avoid a shop that feels the need to charge an extra grand to replace items that aren't bad, just because they're already 'in there'. It only takes 15 minutes to pull the intake.
Kirk
There are a million so called remanufactures out there on the web selling 'rebuilt' injectors cheap. DON'T BUY THESE!!! They are no more than someone elses high mile returns that measure in spec and are cleaned, but won't last long and aren't matched.
If money is no object, go ahead and replace all the hoses, sensors and harnesses under the intake, but it's certainly not necessary.I would avoid a shop that feels the need to charge an extra grand to replace items that aren't bad, just because they're already 'in there'. It only takes 15 minutes to pull the intake.
Kirk
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Q45tech
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- Car: 1990 Q45 342,400 miles 22 years ownership with original engine
1995 G20t 5 speed 334,000 miles 16" 2002 wheels - 205/50/16 Sr20ve vvl
YOU OBVIOUSLY KNOW NOTHING ABOUT THE Q PLENUM and how long it takes to remove same with the engine in a car! 15 minutes hog wash! Nor how many old brittle hoses are destroyed and cracked in the process.
Much less how many lower runners require remove to just get the rail out on the bench where you can work on injectors and replace fuel rubber lines at the same time.
We know from experience in dealing with thousands of early Q customers what fails and when..........the last thing we do is force anyone to do anything. We can only recommend. We just make them sign that they fully understand that any subsequant failure of an unchanged hose or knock sensor is not our fault.
If they didn't pay for the part or its changed labor they are on their own even a week after changing an injector.
You would be surprised at how often this happens and a customer doesn't know a cross vent balance hose from a pvc out hose or an IAC Y hose...........same with brittle knock sensor harness just touching it can cause an open sometimes.
The hose you don't change fails obviously.
We never change injectors in the South because they just don't fail, [we have many examples of 250-400,000 miles and never a problem when rail cleaned] unless the car was exposed to non standard gasoline for more than a few tankfuls by being driven out of the area to the West or North Central states.....Ethanol and extreme additives from CA refineries and the states they feed.
Much less how many lower runners require remove to just get the rail out on the bench where you can work on injectors and replace fuel rubber lines at the same time.
We know from experience in dealing with thousands of early Q customers what fails and when..........the last thing we do is force anyone to do anything. We can only recommend. We just make them sign that they fully understand that any subsequant failure of an unchanged hose or knock sensor is not our fault.
If they didn't pay for the part or its changed labor they are on their own even a week after changing an injector.
You would be surprised at how often this happens and a customer doesn't know a cross vent balance hose from a pvc out hose or an IAC Y hose...........same with brittle knock sensor harness just touching it can cause an open sometimes.
The hose you don't change fails obviously.
We never change injectors in the South because they just don't fail, [we have many examples of 250-400,000 miles and never a problem when rail cleaned] unless the car was exposed to non standard gasoline for more than a few tankfuls by being driven out of the area to the West or North Central states.....Ethanol and extreme additives from CA refineries and the states they feed.
boomstriker wrote:It only takes 15 minutes to pull the intake.
Kirk
HAHA
Really, Kirk... I was with you to the end there, but then you lost me.
I'd say that in a car that ALREADY HAD ALL THE HOSES REPLACED so they were SUPPLE AND PLIABLE, you could get the plenum off in 45... maybe
Problem of course, as was pointed out, they are never pliable after 10-12 years- they'll crack. And if they crack and you don't notice it, you're chasing problems and paying for another plenum removal. (And now you have one of those, 'my-car-doesn't-seem-to-run-right-after-you-worked-on-it problems... followed by the 'well'we-told-yo-the-risk-of-not-changing-those-old-brittle-parts' problem).
I did all mine myself (fuel, primary air and secondary air) and figure I spent $400. But I don't fear pulling the plenum to get at the injectors this time around. And I KNOW it will take me longer than 45 to get it off.
Ard
PS To the original poster- I've never found a great Q mechanic here in the N. CA or Sacto areas...
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maxnix
- Posts: 22627
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- Car: 1995 Infiniti Q45
1995 Infiniti Q45t
2000 Infiniti Q45
From a Jeff Leeds Post:
Quote »It is funny, my dad has a good friend that used to own Infiniti of Ventura, sold the dealership about a year ago and now owns Cars 101.[/quote]From reading his posts, I think the mechanic is in Ventura and not NoCA.__________________Brian1995 Q45 & Q45t & 2000 Q45
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Quote »It is funny, my dad has a good friend that used to own Infiniti of Ventura, sold the dealership about a year ago and now owns Cars 101.[/quote]From reading his posts, I think the mechanic is in Ventura and not NoCA.__________________Brian1995 Q45 & Q45t & 2000 Q45
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boomstriker
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WOW!!!! HOLY FLAMMING BATMAN!!!!Maybe I exaggerated a little...Maybe I should have said 'I' can remove the upper intake in 15 minutes. Maybe for some of you that don't do them very often or have never, it will take much longer. MY point was... It's not that big a job.
Q tech.. The lower runners do not need to be removed to get the rail off. Why do you need to remove the rail anyway? The injectors pop out of the rail and the feed hoses can be R&R on the car. Sounds like you're doing a lot of pointless extra work to me.The only brittle hoses I've encountered are the PVC vent hoses on the VC side. Replace 'em. I've never seen a non-flexing coolant hose under the intake get brittle nor have I had a customer have one leaking. The only ones that need to flex are the heater hoses- replace those if you feel the need but the rest are not prone for leaks, so leave them be if they look good.As far as the harnesses, sure the plastic casing gets brittle, but the wires are fine unless you're doing a lot of unnecessary yanking and pulling. Why are you yanking on knock sensor wires while doing the injectors? If you want to measure the sensor, do it at the upper connector where you can get to it.The connectors can be a pain if you don't know how to get them off without breaking them. Maybe this is your problem.
If you're removing extra componants to replace hoses that may leak and sensors that may go bad and destroying every hose, connector, harness, clamp and sensor you touch in the process, I could see why you feel the need to suggest to the customer to replace 'everything' and why the labor is much higher than need be.
Q tech.. The lower runners do not need to be removed to get the rail off. Why do you need to remove the rail anyway? The injectors pop out of the rail and the feed hoses can be R&R on the car. Sounds like you're doing a lot of pointless extra work to me.The only brittle hoses I've encountered are the PVC vent hoses on the VC side. Replace 'em. I've never seen a non-flexing coolant hose under the intake get brittle nor have I had a customer have one leaking. The only ones that need to flex are the heater hoses- replace those if you feel the need but the rest are not prone for leaks, so leave them be if they look good.As far as the harnesses, sure the plastic casing gets brittle, but the wires are fine unless you're doing a lot of unnecessary yanking and pulling. Why are you yanking on knock sensor wires while doing the injectors? If you want to measure the sensor, do it at the upper connector where you can get to it.The connectors can be a pain if you don't know how to get them off without breaking them. Maybe this is your problem.
If you're removing extra componants to replace hoses that may leak and sensors that may go bad and destroying every hose, connector, harness, clamp and sensor you touch in the process, I could see why you feel the need to suggest to the customer to replace 'everything' and why the labor is much higher than need be.
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Q45tech
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- Car: 1990 Q45 342,400 miles 22 years ownership with original engine
1995 G20t 5 speed 334,000 miles 16" 2002 wheels - 205/50/16 Sr20ve vvl
"I've never seen a non-flexing coolant hose under the intake get brittle nor have I had a customer have one leaking. The only ones that need to flex are the heater hoses- replace those if you feel the need but the rest are not prone for leaks, so leave them be if they look good."
Again our observations DIFFER. The rigid coolant hoses swell and ballon to double their diameter in the center........failing - flooding the coolant into the engine valley coating the knock sensor and harness......the acidic steam attacks the knock sensor plastic body.
We almost never see leaking heater hoses unless the motor mounts are not replaced evey 120,000 miles and if they leak the brake vacuum line is usually cracked first.
Some of the lower runners are removed to ease main under plenum coolant hose CORRECT replacement along with cleaning and resurfacing the hose to head metal adapters and knock sensor replacement.
We replace at least 60 sets of KS and harnesses per year for overheats melting and cracks.
We are a PRECISION shop and certainly don't do things the fastest way [like dealer techs], we do them the best way to achieve the highest reliabilty for customers.
All our techs, service writers, and management are salaried and get no overrides/commissions on parts sales --- fairly unique to the automotive industry.............slow but sure. Builds a good reputation.
We probably work on more old Q than any individual dealer in the United States........dealers around Atlanta [there are 5 currently] don't see many old Q as we get the bulk of business.
Because our pricing is lower due to lower labor rate compared to dealers plus we consolidate some jobs to save hours for customers.
We work on at least 30 different [90-96] Q per week [between both shops] and you do how many????????? We have what I believe is the highest mileage Q customer base in US [due to Atlanta high commute mileage].........to me an old Q has to have 200,000 miles to be though of as broken in............ dozens of our customers are over 250,000 miles. We always keep 4-5 Q as parts donors and each of these is stripped to bare metal in 6 months and crushed.
My Q at 264,000 miles is far from the oldest as we have one just retired at over 420,000 miles replaced by a spring chicken of 248,000 miles.
I would love to video tape you taking a plenum off within 15 minutes from the moment in drives into your bay without air tools. Only 16 runner bolts and 19 hoses plus 2 air hose clamps and 4 filter housing clips and the accelerator cables and the TPS and IAC connector. Plus the 6 misc things injector/knock connectors. That's less than 15 seconds per item if you don't breathe. My background includes doing time and motion studies for industrial processes.I always correct my posted times because 90% of members don't have air tools available.
Again our observations DIFFER. The rigid coolant hoses swell and ballon to double their diameter in the center........failing - flooding the coolant into the engine valley coating the knock sensor and harness......the acidic steam attacks the knock sensor plastic body.
We almost never see leaking heater hoses unless the motor mounts are not replaced evey 120,000 miles and if they leak the brake vacuum line is usually cracked first.
Some of the lower runners are removed to ease main under plenum coolant hose CORRECT replacement along with cleaning and resurfacing the hose to head metal adapters and knock sensor replacement.
We replace at least 60 sets of KS and harnesses per year for overheats melting and cracks.
We are a PRECISION shop and certainly don't do things the fastest way [like dealer techs], we do them the best way to achieve the highest reliabilty for customers.
All our techs, service writers, and management are salaried and get no overrides/commissions on parts sales --- fairly unique to the automotive industry.............slow but sure. Builds a good reputation.
We probably work on more old Q than any individual dealer in the United States........dealers around Atlanta [there are 5 currently] don't see many old Q as we get the bulk of business.
Because our pricing is lower due to lower labor rate compared to dealers plus we consolidate some jobs to save hours for customers.
We work on at least 30 different [90-96] Q per week [between both shops] and you do how many????????? We have what I believe is the highest mileage Q customer base in US [due to Atlanta high commute mileage].........to me an old Q has to have 200,000 miles to be though of as broken in............ dozens of our customers are over 250,000 miles. We always keep 4-5 Q as parts donors and each of these is stripped to bare metal in 6 months and crushed.
My Q at 264,000 miles is far from the oldest as we have one just retired at over 420,000 miles replaced by a spring chicken of 248,000 miles.
I would love to video tape you taking a plenum off within 15 minutes from the moment in drives into your bay without air tools. Only 16 runner bolts and 19 hoses plus 2 air hose clamps and 4 filter housing clips and the accelerator cables and the TPS and IAC connector. Plus the 6 misc things injector/knock connectors. That's less than 15 seconds per item if you don't breathe. My background includes doing time and motion studies for industrial processes.I always correct my posted times because 90% of members don't have air tools available.
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boomstriker
- Posts: 64
- Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2003 9:30 am
What mechanic doesn't have air tools? How and why would you want to disconnect the KS and injector plugs before pulling the intake? And how did you come up with 21 hoses???I'm not going to get into a pissing contest about how fast the intake can be lifted... As I said, the point is, it's not that big a job. I'm not questioning your credentials or the performance of your shop. If you've had a million Infinitys go through your shop, good for you.But it seems every time someone posts a question about a quote for repair work, as this one, you reply with an outlandish blind estimate based on your vast experience to replace every componant on the car, because if you don't, it may come back.Manufactures all have recommended service intervals listed to help in keeping failed rubber and wear items from ruining your day. Obviously, the important ones like T belts, brakes, fuel and suspension items should be monitored a little closer and maybe changed out early, but these are only guidlines based on what some engineers came up with after some limited R&D. If your 400k mile Q customers followed all your 'recomendations' and changed every hose, gasket, sensor, harness and componant that you suggest, bad or not, at the intervals you post here, for every system on the car, every time they brought it in to ya, they'd have $80k invested in basic maintenance on a $3000 car!! Who in their right mind would do that??? Some of my Porsche and BMW customers might, but they have more money than sense and are the eccentric type of guys that would look for the most expensive place in town so they could brag to the fella's about a $3000 tune-up on their baby.99% of the drivers just want their car fixed as fast, cheap and expertly as possible. They don't require this millitary aircraft style of maintenance and on a 14 year old car, are more likely to 'just fix what needs fixing'.
I, like most others on this forum greatly appreciate your insite and knowledge. I think it's great that you take the time to post your experiences in an effort to help others. But, I think you should also explain in your posts that these 'high end' estimates for repair are 'worst case scenarios' and give a false impression to many newbies that you must be a millionaire to own and maintain an older Nissan/Infinity. Without knowing the service history of the car, the odometer reading, the amount driven each year, the type of driving/conditions, whether the hoses in question have/are leaking and without even knowing if they are ballooned, you can't make the assumption that all his hoses, harnesses and sensors need to be replaced, simply because you've seen the results on someone elses high mile turd.By your estimates, that's nearly $1500 in additional parts and labor for something that's probably not necessary. With estimates like these flying around, it's no wonder people just drive them till they quit and send'em to the yard.
I, like most others on this forum greatly appreciate your insite and knowledge. I think it's great that you take the time to post your experiences in an effort to help others. But, I think you should also explain in your posts that these 'high end' estimates for repair are 'worst case scenarios' and give a false impression to many newbies that you must be a millionaire to own and maintain an older Nissan/Infinity. Without knowing the service history of the car, the odometer reading, the amount driven each year, the type of driving/conditions, whether the hoses in question have/are leaking and without even knowing if they are ballooned, you can't make the assumption that all his hoses, harnesses and sensors need to be replaced, simply because you've seen the results on someone elses high mile turd.By your estimates, that's nearly $1500 in additional parts and labor for something that's probably not necessary. With estimates like these flying around, it's no wonder people just drive them till they quit and send'em to the yard.
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Q45tech
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- Car: 1990 Q45 342,400 miles 22 years ownership with original engine
1995 G20t 5 speed 334,000 miles 16" 2002 wheels - 205/50/16 Sr20ve vvl
"What mechanic doesn't have air tools?" If you had been here a few years you would see that many here are [try to be] do it yourselfers.
Your use of the word MECHANIC [instead of TECHNICAN] tells me a lot about your mindset and how you have been abused and emotionally crippled by the automotive industry.....don't take this personally! A common US malady.
All I can point out is our experiences and my experiences in owning a Q for the last 14 years.
I never said people buy everything that is pointed out to them.
In fact I can think of at least 3 Q [this year] on which defective knock sensors were skipped. Rarely are people so stupid as to skip leaky plenum hoses --- coolant or fuel. Much of our business depends on being flexible with poor customers....why we keep junkers around to have a supply of cheap parts. Why we offer bring your own web purchased parts deals to Nico members.
As I pointed out we never change injectors as few fail in the South no matter how many miles the car has. So we only pull plenums for leaking hoses or KS.
[KS sensors are $400 but only add an hour $70 if the hoses are being changed or the rail is pulled to change injectors.........how do you get $1500 EXTRA..........we never change them on spec only if they fail ohm test and show a Consult code or have obvious cracks in the plastic body.
We are the least pushy place I've ever seen.........just list the faults we find. We list everything as a protection against the "EVER SINCE YOU WORKED ON IT PEOPLE"
You are correct, less than one in a thousand keep their cars operating as new and most don't care as long as they crank.
Lots of difference between people who WANT to own an early Q and people who are forced by economic circumstances to keep an early Q running because they are stuck with it.
We try to take the HIGHEST ground possible on this FORUM [ENTHUSIAST] and let people decide how low they want to go.
Your use of the word MECHANIC [instead of TECHNICAN] tells me a lot about your mindset and how you have been abused and emotionally crippled by the automotive industry.....don't take this personally! A common US malady.
All I can point out is our experiences and my experiences in owning a Q for the last 14 years.
I never said people buy everything that is pointed out to them.
In fact I can think of at least 3 Q [this year] on which defective knock sensors were skipped. Rarely are people so stupid as to skip leaky plenum hoses --- coolant or fuel. Much of our business depends on being flexible with poor customers....why we keep junkers around to have a supply of cheap parts. Why we offer bring your own web purchased parts deals to Nico members.
As I pointed out we never change injectors as few fail in the South no matter how many miles the car has. So we only pull plenums for leaking hoses or KS.
[KS sensors are $400 but only add an hour $70 if the hoses are being changed or the rail is pulled to change injectors.........how do you get $1500 EXTRA..........we never change them on spec only if they fail ohm test and show a Consult code or have obvious cracks in the plastic body.
We are the least pushy place I've ever seen.........just list the faults we find. We list everything as a protection against the "EVER SINCE YOU WORKED ON IT PEOPLE"
You are correct, less than one in a thousand keep their cars operating as new and most don't care as long as they crank.
Lots of difference between people who WANT to own an early Q and people who are forced by economic circumstances to keep an early Q running because they are stuck with it.
We try to take the HIGHEST ground possible on this FORUM [ENTHUSIAST] and let people decide how low they want to go.
Q45tech wrote:We try to take the HIGHEST ground possible on this FORUM [ENTHUSIAST] and let people decide how low they want to go.
I always view Q45tech's posts in this light: as an ideal to stive for, or one end of the spectrum. Everyone, newbies and seasoned mechanics MUST know the range of possibiities before tehy can make an informed decision.
How many posts do we see here where a 'mechanic' didn't fully inform the owner, a half-assed repair was done, and now the owner is holding the bag. Interestingly, many people will tend to believe the person who tells them what they WANT to hear- and they'll go to one shop after another until they get the answer they want ("Oh, just flush the trans and it should be fine') Still, this site is one where you can count on Q45tech giving you chapter and verse- then you decide, at your own peril, how close you can come.
And on the 15 minute thing: no matter how fast you, me, or the shop can get the plenum off, any non-do-it-yourselfer will be paying for the FULL book time- so it really is a big deal if you get hit with a 4-5hr charge to go back and replace a $5 hose.
Ard
PS I'll disagree with your statement:
Manufactures all have recommended service intervals listed to help in keeping failed rubber and wear items from ruining your day.
The maintenance schedule is ONLY there to get the car to the end of the warranty period, and to avoid any safety related lawsuits. To believe the maintenance schedule is designed to prevent parts failures past 100k is foolish.. IMHO