fuel injector cleaner... damage to injectors?

Post by **domenicostorino** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 3:10 pm

hey guys, quick question.. is it possible that an injector can get damaged because of the use of a fuel injector cleaner bottle in your fuel tank? I have heard that the fluid can damage the injectors o-rings and create a leak...

I "cleaned" my injectors by adding a fuel injector cleaner bottle on my tank and now my car runs slower

I have also heard that a bad injector can cause a clicking sound very similar to a damaged valve lifter or engine knock...

Post by **nghtrain88** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 5:08 pm

different opinions on fuel injection cleaners are floating around.

some say a quality brand will work, others say it gunks things up. I have used it in the past with no problems.

I doubt the cleaner is causing your car to run/seem to run slower.

injectors that are in proper working order will make a slight tick sound

Post by **evildky** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:42 am

fuel injector cleaner is to be added with a full tank of gas, assuming you didn't add it to an almost empty tank there should be no adverse effects, and no a bad injector won't make a ticking sound, a working injector makes a ticking sound but they are burried in the manifold and impossibel to hear without a stethiscope

how's you fuel filter? oil level? been keeping the oil changed? hows your plugs? how about the injector connectors? and the coil pack connectors?

Post by **domenicostorino** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 1:00 pm

new fuel filter, oil changed every 2000 miles... no idea about injector and coil pack connectors, I mean they look visually ok but how do I know if they are working properly?

Post by **nghtrain88** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 1:31 pm

unplug them and check for corrosion.. if so then you can buy a cleaner solution or probably get away with lightly sanding it off.. then apply some dielectric lithium grease to protect from moisture

Post by **revamped** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 4:41 pm

same problem here man....i had my injectors clean by gateway tires for 39.99 and my car did the same thing and it eventually started drinking gas like a alcoholic.. i figured if they clean all of the components with there solutions ....the filter may have caught some left over debris...so i disconnected my battery...installed a new NAPA GOLD SERIES filter 16.99 since nissan didnt have one in stock...and notice a tremendous difference...car returned to normal...try that out too...i think the brand of filters make a difference...i specifically said...no cheap filter..im happy now...

Post by **T45** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 4:47 am

Don't use cheap STP crap and the like. They are nothing more than kerosene. My dad learned it the hard way when it melted his cat completely into a pile of exhaust blocking oooze. Then it took out the rings.

BG44k is the only cleaner that goes in any of my vehicles.

Post by **curtiscr87** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 7:36 am

i used lucas in my 240sx and never had a problem i thought i ran better after i put it in

Post by **backroaddrifter** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 6:23 pm

hey guys can i run full synthetic oil in my car. i just got it this week and found out that the man who owned it before was getting his oil changed at wal mart! so let me know

Post by **supreamS14** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 7:09 pm

Welcome, The search button is your best friend!!! If you dont use it we wont like you but this 1 is on me sin. oil is great but can seep past seals more or will make a leak worse so SEARCH and make your choice!!! I use NOS octaine boost! It clames 60 points=6 whole octaine numbers!!!Who knows if it works that good but my car runs great and my knock sensor reads 0 at 16psi in my 240!

Post by **Yardjass** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:08 pm

Here, this should help. These guys get paid to do this stuff so it should be pretty reliable. This just stopped me from using fuel injector cleaner.

http://consumerguideauto.howstuffworks. ... 00zx-2.htm

Post by **SBC300** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:06 pm

I use this on 225 lb injectors on e100. I have also used it before oil changes in the oil of every motor on every vehicle I have ever owned.

Post by **Towncivilian** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:55 pm

In my opinion, Seafoam is nothing but snake oil. All it is is:

40 - 60% pale oil as a carrier and light lubricant
25 - 35% naptha, a solvent
10 - 20% IPA (isopropyl alcohol) - a solvent and octane booster when used in the gas, which is why some claim a performance increase when using Seafoam, until the next tank without the added IPA!

The white plume of smoke generated by Seafoam when ingested via a vacuum line is the pale oil burning up. Carbon generates brown smoke when burning, which is why you sometimes see clouds of brown smoke emanating from other vehicles on a highway on-ramp during high load for example; if one drives like a grandma, faster carbon build up can result and a high load can purge some build up. Pale oil also coats the catalytic converter and oxygen sensors, which can impact the sensor's ability to sense and the catalytic converter's, well, catalysing ability. Use a fuel system cleaner containing polyether amines, which is proven to clean deposits without leaving behind its own residue (SAE paper detailing PEA). Products which are known to contain PEA are Chevron Techron, Gumout Regane, and Redline SI-1.

Regarding Seafoam's use in oil, engine oil blenders spend millions of dollars in research and development to generate a formulation of oil that is designed to meet API requirements and to do the best job lubricating and protecting your engine. Why throw in some harsh solvent such as Seafoam or other snake oil to upset that formulation? If you keep up with oil changes, you should not have any sludge to worry about in the crankcase, and do not require Seafoam or any oil additives for that matter.

As for top-end cleaning, use a product designed for such a task such as Mopar Combustion Chamber Cleaner or Amsoil Power Foam.

Post by **SBC300** » Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:27 am

Again, I speak about what has worked for me and the people who I have worked for over the last 20 years. I dont give much thought to what the internet says.

Post by **DCaff300ZX** » Sat Feb 11, 2012 12:12 pm

While I agree with the point of Towncivilian's post, unfortunately those of us who have used vehicles cannot know the circumstances the PO created with his own maintenance plan, even from dealer service, so we find ourselves needing to try to "clean up" or renew our used vehicle as best possible before starting our own maintenance program.
I personally have stayed away from multi-purpose cleaners like Seafoam (have heard equal good and bad for it) and tried to stay specific with any additives- I use Lucas oil stabilizer for my 230K NA as well as Lucas upper cylinder lubricant, which also passes as an "injector cleaner" because lubrication is probably the only possibility for our ethanol-ravaged units.
Other than that I use high-quality oil and Shell or Chevron gas, and change oil every 2.5-3K.

Post by **SBC300** » Sat Feb 11, 2012 12:18 pm

Ethanol ravaged? I run e100 and have never felt like it was having any adverse effect on my parts.
What problems is ethanol causing you?

Post by **DCaff300ZX** » Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:21 pm

Yeah- the 10% +/- ethanol added to motor fuel these days and the electrolysis issue that results from the power-on issue with Z32 injectors...the reason for the switched-injector power mod.
Even though I switched the injectors off a year ago in my 230K NA, they are old and leaky (one replaced, another "serviced") and the engine idles and runs 100% smoother with the upper cyl. lube compared to none.

Post by **SBC300** » Sat Feb 11, 2012 2:43 pm

I have never heard of e85 - electrolysis - injector problems. Can you elaborate?
It must be a nismo specific issue. I asked a friend who owns makes injectors and he is not aware of the issue with his injectors.

Post by **DCaff300ZX** » Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:25 pm

SBC300 wrote:I have never heard of e85 - electrolysis - injector problems. Can you elaborate?
It must be a nismo specific issue. I asked a friend who owns makes injectors and he is not aware of the issue with his injectors.

You say E85...perhaps we are talking about different things?
I am speaking of the 10% ethanol added to normal everyday motor fuel at least here in Washington state (and as far as I know everywhere else in the US at least!) that has caused issues with fuel injectors of many makes and models, as far as I know specific to the early 90's fuel injected vehicles where the fuel injectors are in a constant "on" state electrically before being changed to a switched-off state in the mid-90's. This explains what I am talking about:
http://www.twinturbo.net/net/viewmsg.as ... _id=990554

Post by **300ZXttZMAN** » Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:28 pm

Moved to Z32 tech.

Post by **GerryO** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:31 pm

http://maxima.theowensfamily.com/tsb/NTB94-002.pdf

http://www.maeganandjoe.info/temp/Z32/C ... ailure.pdf

Post by **DCaff300ZX** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:58 pm

GerryO wrote:http://maxima.theowensfamily.com/tsb/NTB94-002.pdf

http://www.maeganandjoe.info/temp/Z32/C ... ailure.pdf

Perfect description of what I had read years ago, thanks GerryO!

Post by **6FTDEEP** » Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:06 pm

Thanks guys!

Post by **amc49** » Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:31 pm

I've worked on cars for 40+ years and I NEVER use anything like that. I sold it periodically depending on the job and never saw it really do much either.

In fact I pretty much never use any add-in extra chemicals for anything, it's simple enough to keep cars running fine without it. Just use good fuel and oil.

The E10 sold here commonly works out closer to E20 as there is no regulation forcing it to be exact, they meter in more ethanol as a result to make your mileage drop (more gas sols as a result) and it also reduces the distributor's fuel cost.

Post by **NolimitZ32** » Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:27 am

^This. In all my time dealing with cars professionally and otherwise I have never come across any off the shelf substance that substantially helped, changed, cleaned, raised, or lowered anything (ie. octane boosted, fuel injector cleaner, oil additives, etc.), The only way to properly clean injectors is to remove them from the car and have them sonic-cleaned. As for the ethanol (ie E10/E20) will it eat your rubber components? Possibly, if they are old, over time, it will degrade them faster than E0 fuel would, will you notice, realistically probably not.

Post by **DCaff300ZX** » Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:15 am

I'll just toss in that I have had success with my old NA years ago (from 220K to 234K and death) using the Lucas Upper Cylinder lube, which as indicated above does NOT clean the injectors or repair them, but lubricates them in a way that they will often work better. I'd had two injectors replaced as well as the harness connections, but was unwilling to invest further in such a high-mileage car so I looked at other alternatives and tried Lucas. IF your injectors are shorted out or the connectors shot obviously you will get no possible improvement, but if your condition (old, bad seals, electrolysis damage) allows, as was my case, the targeted lubrication CAN help as with any other lubrication upgrade. The upper lube also quieted the noisy lifters, which eventually stopped ticking altogether (with upper lube used or not) so I do support Lucas upper cylinder lube as a potential short term help device, and a not too expensive one.
But in all cases, repair/replacement is the best option as the lubrication help only lasts until the injector fails further, as it/they will.

Post by **NolimitZ32** » Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:27 am

^ Fair enough.

Post by **amc49** » Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:53 pm

You can stop ticking with any super thick oil at much less cost than Lucas. The Lucas being fuel borne won't even TOUCH lifters.

As well, once ethanol laced fuel has gone acidic from phase separation it can eat rubber to make it like chewed bubblegum. I've had to come up with more fuel pump rubber holder or base fittings than I can count over that. I've seen it eat steel in 24 hours before and with fuel bought that very day.

With any engine cleaners I have to ask the inevitable question...............what is it that one thinks he is cleaning out there? And if not attached to the engine then where does that stuff end up? In the bearings or oil pickup tube and wrong oh so wrong.

If I had any injector problem I would be yanking it to check the flow pattern and try to clean it then under operation and full pressure. I sold plenty of injectors when I was in parts and other than this or that oddball make that was known for them failing the vast majority of all I sold were sold for nothing if you can get into the buyers mind to have him tell you the truth, an art totally to itself.

Post by **DCaff300ZX** » Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:31 pm

amc49 wrote: ↑
Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:53 pm
You can stop ticking with any super thick oil at much less cost than Lucas. The Lucas being fuel borne won't even TOUCH lifters.

As well, once ethanol laced fuel has gone acidic from phase separation it can eat rubber to make it like chewed bubblegum. I've had to come up with more fuel pump rubber holder or base fittings than I can count over that. I've seen it eat steel in 24 hours before and with fuel bought that very day.

With any engine cleaners I have to ask the inevitable question...............what is it that one thinks he is cleaning out there? And if not attached to the engine then where does that stuff end up? In the bearings or oil pickup tube and wrong oh so wrong.

If I had any injector problem I would be yanking it to check the flow pattern and try to clean it then under operation and full pressure. I sold plenty of injectors when I was in parts and other than this or that oddball make that was known for them failing the vast majority of all I sold were sold for nothing if you can get into the buyers mind to have him tell you the truth, an art totally to itself.

I agree with your basic assessment, my issue at the time was the injector and replacing it, or lubricating the injector itself which did work at that time until that injector and eventually another failed altogether (about a year later), surely shorted out as they usually do.
However, I didn't state that the Lucas treatment I used was the injector cleaner PLUS the Lucas upper cylinder lube, two different products and one fuel-borne (injector cleaner) and one oil-borne. The cleaner (<claimed>) cleans and lubes the injectors, the upper lube targets lifters and cam journals/oil-activated cam phasers, etc. The cleaner burns away, and the light extra lubricants seemingly would not be worse for the engine and internals than the lubrication-improving additives already added to most engine oils, IMO.

Now, I am not usually of the mind to use these types of products either (and don't other than this case) but in this case looking at what to do that made the most sense for the least cost I had two things working for Lucas cleaner and lube: My Z guy said it couldn't hurt (and didn't), and to my own mind and knowledge it made sense to lubricate these areas if possible, and if they needed it. The extra high fuel pressure used in the VG30DE and the electrolysis issue are issues that would seem to benefit from lubrication help, if not obvious replacement. A few uses would determine if any help was had (it did help) or not, with the solution of stopping use if no help or continuing if it did help being a viable option.
As for cost, well, as a "regular" guy I don't have a shop/lift/tools/time to mess with this kind of crap, so the $100 or so I spent on this stuff for about a year before the 230K motor gave up the ghost SURELY beat the costs of shop time and diagnosis, injector removal/cleaning/replacement, etc., hands down. Your solutions are definitely worthwhile and good options should a person have those perks, but not everyone is so lucky and this post was to help them and not a seasoned veteran with their own practices and work options.

Post by **DCaff300ZX** » Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:51 pm

DCaff300ZX wrote: ↑
Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:31 pm

amc49 wrote: ↑
Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:53 pm
You can stop ticking with any super thick oil at much less cost than Lucas. The Lucas being fuel borne won't even TOUCH lifters.

As well, once ethanol laced fuel has gone acidic from phase separation it can eat rubber to make it like chewed bubblegum. I've had to come up with more fuel pump rubber holder or base fittings than I can count over that. I've seen it eat steel in 24 hours before and with fuel bought that very day.

With any engine cleaners I have to ask the inevitable question...............what is it that one thinks he is cleaning out there? And if not attached to the engine then where does that stuff end up? In the bearings or oil pickup tube and wrong oh so wrong.

If I had any injector problem I would be yanking it to check the flow pattern and try to clean it then under operation and full pressure. I sold plenty of injectors when I was in parts and other than this or that oddball make that was known for them failing the vast majority of all I sold were sold for nothing if you can get into the buyers mind to have him tell you the truth, an art totally to itself.

My bad- I added info from a completely different problem and product to this injector post.
I used Lucas injector cleaner which lubricates the injector body, which worked well and I stand by my assessment.
I also used Lucas Upper Cylinder lube for a separate oiling improvement issue, which also helped due to my intermittent VTC issue and overall noisiness and lack of efficiency and high heat.

While I agree with your basic assessments, my issue at the time was the injector and replacing it, or lubricating the injector itself which did work at that time until that injector and eventually another failed altogether (about a year later), surely shorted out as they usually do.
However, I didn't state that the Lucas treatment I used was the injector cleaner PLUS the Lucas upper cylinder lube, two different products and one fuel-borne (injector cleaner) and one oil-borne. The cleaner (<claimed>) cleans and lubes the injectors, the upper lube targets lifters and cam journals/oil-activated cam phasers, etc. The cleaner burns away, and the light extra lubricants seemingly would not be worse for the engine and internals than the lubrication-improving additives already added to most engine oils, IMO.

Now, I am not usually of the mind to use these types of products either (and don't other than this case) but in this case looking at what to do that made the most sense for the least cost I had two things working for Lucas cleaner and lube: My Z guy said it couldn't hurt (and didn't), and to my own mind and knowledge it made sense to lubricate these areas if possible, and if they needed it. The extra high fuel pressure used in the VG30DE and the electrolysis issue are issues that would seem to benefit from lubrication help, if not obvious replacement. A few uses would determine if any help was had (it did help) or not, with the solution of stopping use if no help or continuing if it did help being a viable option.

As for cost analysis, well, as a "regular" guy I don't have a shop/lift/tools/experience/time to mess with this kind of crap, so the $100 or so I spent on this stuff for about a year before the 234K motor gave up the ghost SURELY beat the costs of shop time and diagnosis, injector removal/cleaning/replacement, etc., hands down. Your solutions are definitely worthwhile and good options should a person have those perks, but not everyone is so lucky and this post was to help them and not a seasoned veteran with their own practices and work options.

fuel injector cleaner... damage to injectors?

fuel injector cleaner... damage to injectors?

Re: fuel injector cleaner... damage to injectors? (domenicostorino)

Re: (evildky)

Re: (domenicostorino)

Re: (domenicostorino)

Re: (T45)

Re: (backroaddrifter)

Re: fuel injector cleaner... damage to injectors?

Re: fuel injector cleaner... damage to injectors?

Re: fuel injector cleaner... damage to injectors?

Re: fuel injector cleaner... damage to injectors?

Re: fuel injector cleaner... damage to injectors?

Re: fuel injector cleaner... damage to injectors?

Re: fuel injector cleaner... damage to injectors?

Re: fuel injector cleaner... damage to injectors?

Re: fuel injector cleaner... damage to injectors?

Re: fuel injector cleaner... damage to injectors?

Re: fuel injector cleaner... damage to injectors?

Re: fuel injector cleaner... damage to injectors?

Re: fuel injector cleaner... damage to injectors?

Re: fuel injector cleaner... damage to injectors?

Re: fuel injector cleaner... damage to injectors?

Re: fuel injector cleaner... damage to injectors?

Re: fuel injector cleaner... damage to injectors?

Re: fuel injector cleaner... damage to injectors?

Re: fuel injector cleaner... damage to injectors?

Re: fuel injector cleaner... damage to injectors?

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