Front swaybar orientation

[npez]

My TT Z's front sway bar is currently oriented in the front of the cross-member. As you probably already know, this is causing a minor clearance issue with the VH p/s pump. As my VH swap is now front sump the back part of the motor by the transmission bellhousing is completely open.

Do you see any challenges with running a sway bar (not necessarily the stock one) in arrears of the cross-member? I was thinking of drilling 2 small holes (about the diameter of a nut), then welding 2 nuts onto the back of a steel plate then the plate onto the rails (with the bolts now recessed into the 2 holes I will have made on the rails earlier) - this would be similar to the OEM setup in the front, but in the back. The sway bar arms/levers would then go to the factory end-link location with possibly shorter/longer end-links.

I researched the MR2 electric P/S pump and it seems like this will be a major pain. To do it right with multi-speed operation of the pump a Pulse Width Modulated controller will need to be created that receives steering angle as well as vehicle speed and modulates accordingly so the pump is not running full-tilt all the time. Alternatively the MR2 had a p/s controller that can probably be adapted as my car has both VSS and a steering angle sensor on the rack (possibly from the HICAS system), but I'm thinking if the swaybar can be adapted without any suspension dynamics issues, that may be the easiest route to take care of the clearance issue.

I've seen other cars with this swaybar orientation but do you all think it's doable to retrofit mine?

Thanks in advance for your feedback....

Nick.

[Mettler]

Why can't you just run the pump full speed all the time, and have a power steering fluid cooler in the circuit?

[npez]

Why can't you just run the pump full speed all the time, and have a power steering fluid cooler in the circuit?

That would take care of the heat, but noise & current draw still remain. At full draw the pump pulls 80A! So I'm assuming all around if running at full tilt it'll be pulling 30-40A easy. One arguement can be "so what?" on the other hand I've got a pretty hefty audio system as well as the other accessories that collectively can add quickly to the total current draw. The alternator is 140A but that's typically rated cold and at higher rpms, so with engine temps at operating temperature and lower rpms I'm thinking the alternator will be putting out 100-110A on average. So the margins for all the other accessories becomes pretty small.

I'm also of the understanding that the p/s pump is somewhat loud, not sure if anyone has used it and can comment.....

This is my thinking for trying to stay away from it if I can with the sway bar conversion.

Nick.

[Chrispy300]

I've been looking at the MR2 pumps too. They will only draw that sort of current when under load, if they are just circulationg it will only draw a few amps. A lot of the Honda boys do this, and I think it will be the easiest way for what I want, maybe some sort of speed control with a switch in the cabin as well as master on/off would improve things. Have to have a chat with my electrical engineer mates....

As for the swaybar shortening/lengthening the arms will have a big effect on the stiffness. Can't see any problme with flipping it to the rear though. Only one way to find out

[SuperHatch]

As for the swaybar shortening/lengthening the arms will have a big effect on the stiffness. Can't see any problme with flipping it to the rear though. Only one way to find out

Ditto...

Shortening the arms will increase stiffness, lengthening will decrease it...

If yuo flow the bar to the back, the effective stiffness will stay the same and you'll be fine. What I'd be more worried about is the swaybar and the tie rods attempting to occupy the same space during suspension movement.

[npez]

Ditto...

Shortening the arms will increase stiffness, lengthening will decrease it...

If yuo flow the bar to the back, the effective stiffness will stay the same and you'll be fine. What I'd be more worried about is the swaybar and the tie rods attempting to occupy the same space during suspension movement.

Oh... I see what you mean about the tie rods, that could present a show stopping problem....

I'll look around at the p/s pump again, but toyota had to have a good design/engineering reason to build a p/s controller for this pump. Also all itterations of the pump design had that second connector for the PWM signal though the # wires changed from 4 to 3 to 2 in the latter years, they still maintained the low and high speed operation modes for the pumps.

I'll see what else I can dig up. If anyone has used this setup I'd like to hear about impressions, reliability, etc. as getting the pump and just plumbing it up and making the electrical side work is a pretty simple affair. I just don't want to have any "gremlins" haunting me afterwards if I end up needing to go this route.

Thanks,Nick.

[craigztoyz]

You had my attention, but yeah, problem with space on that one.

[T45]

The cheapest way is to use the stock Q pump. I was able to clock it 90* clockwise, cut and trim the mounting bracket to allow more upward travel, drill a hole in the bracket in the exact middle of the number 4 that is cast into it and then got 2 bolts into it from the back side.

I used the Z hose fittings on the Q pump, I had to clearance a little bit on the block to allow for the inlet piping but it's just casting and nothing major. Then on the front of the pump I just modified the stock bracket to get another bolt in the front.

After that it's just a matter of plumbing it in with new lines, lowering the sway bar and off you go. I have a post in the Z section of my build with a pic or 2 that may or may not help.

[npez]

The cheapest way is to use the stock Q pump. I was able to clock it 90* clockwise, cut and trim the mounting bracket to allow more upward travel, drill a hole in the bracket in the exact middle of the number 4 that is cast into it and then got 2 bolts into it from the back side.

I used the Z hose fittings on the Q pump, I had to clearance a little bit on the block to allow for the inlet piping but it's just casting and nothing major. Then on the front of the pump I just modified the stock bracket to get another bolt in the front.

After that it's just a matter of plumbing it in with new lines, lowering the sway bar and off you go. I have a post in the Z section of my build with a pic or 2 that may or may not help.

Ben,

It's funny, because I had read your post sometime ago but I guess the pump info didn't stick. I think that's a fantastic option to keep everything Nissan under the hood with just adapting the stock stuff, and not have to mess with retro-fitting a bunch of things. I think I'll try your mod and see how it works out.

Thanks a bunch for the recommendation.

Nick.

[SuperHatch]

Anyone look into using a stock Q front swaybar with custom brackets?? Both cars have the same front suspension setup, and you might end up with a stiffer bar as a bonus.

[npez]

Anyone look into using a stock Q front swaybar with custom brackets?? Both cars have the same front suspension setup, and you might end up with a stiffer bar as a bonus.

I considered that, but I thought the Q45 probably had a much larger track so didn't look into it much further. I can go investigate the #s and if they're close I'll take my bar to my friend's junkyard and compare it to the various Qs he has there....

I'll let you know...

Thanks,Nick.

[Marquinho]

I considered that, but I thought the Q45 probably had a much larger track so didn't look into it much further. I can go investigate the #s and if they're close I'll take my bar to my friend's junkyard and compare it to the various Qs he has there....

I'll let you know...

Thanks,Nick.

While you're at it, it may be worth your time to check the cross member. If this is anywhere close to fitting, it may just save tons of labor in brackets and engine mounts...

Thanks,Marco

[npez]

While you're at it, it may be worth your time to check the cross member. If this is anywhere close to fitting, it may just save tons of labor in brackets and engine mounts...

Thanks,Marco

Hi Marco,

We've already modified my 300Z cross-member to fit the Q motor mounts. I know last time I looked for crossmembers they weren't in the Q45s I looked at in the junkyard. I think they pull them and sell them. If I find one though I'll take a look. The actual width of the q45 vs Z is only about 1.4 inches different (the Q is slightly wider).

Thanks,Nick.

[SuperHatch]

These posts make me like the JDM VH41 more and more... P/S and A/C are switched so the Z lines would most likely bolt up much easier, the motor is mroe compact making fitment easier, and the alternator being tucked up top and out of the way would probably make your turbo plumbing that much easier as well... ah well, it's nice to dream.

[craigztoyz]

While you're at it, it may be worth your time to check the cross member. If this is anywhere close to fitting, it may just save tons of labor in brackets and engine mounts...

Thanks,Marco

I already looked at that, you could section it and do it, but you would have to reinforce it, and use the Z32 frame mounting area, as the two are not similar.

[npez]

I already looked at that, you could section it and do it, but you would have to reinforce it, and use the Z32 frame mounting area, as the two are not similar.

Craig,

I thought that sway bars use "spring" steel and are heat treated, so any type of heat (welding) would cause it to break at the joint, unless the whole piece got heat treated again.

Is this not the case?

Nick.

[npez]

The cheapest way is to use the stock Q pump. I was able to clock it 90* clockwise, cut and trim the mounting bracket to allow more upward travel, drill a hole in the bracket in the exact middle of the number 4 that is cast into it and then got 2 bolts into it from the back side.

I used the Z hose fittings on the Q pump, I had to clearance a little bit on the block to allow for the inlet piping but it's just casting and nothing major. Then on the front of the pump I just modified the stock bracket to get another bolt in the front.

After that it's just a matter of plumbing it in with new lines, lowering the sway bar and off you go. I have a post in the Z section of my build with a pic or 2 that may or may not help.

Ben,

Would you happen to have a pic of the p/s setup in your car? I'm clocking it 90* but I don't think I'm ending up where you did. If you have a visual it sure would be helpful....

Thanks,Nick.

[npez]

The cheapest way is to use the stock Q pump. I was able to clock it 90* clockwise, cut and trim the mounting bracket to allow more upward travel, drill a hole in the bracket in the exact middle of the number 4 that is cast into it and then got 2 bolts into it from the back side.

I used the Z hose fittings on the Q pump, I had to clearance a little bit on the block to allow for the inlet piping but it's just casting and nothing major. Then on the front of the pump I just modified the stock bracket to get another bolt in the front.

After that it's just a matter of plumbing it in with new lines, lowering the sway bar and off you go. I have a post in the Z section of my build with a pic or 2 that may or may not help.

Ben,

I re-read your post for the 4th time, and I think I'm getting closer. For the feed to end up by the block I think you clocked the pump counter-clockwise by 90*. Doing so I can see how the feed pipe on the p/s hits the inside (closest to the block) rear mounting bracket "ear". I'm assuming this is what you cut to allow the pump to move up a bit more. At that point we end up with one of the p/s pump ears at the 12 o clock position lining up with the front upper bracket and a hole needing to be drilled in the rear bracket to line up with the second threaded hole behind the p/s pump. At that juncture I can also see needing to lengthen the lower front steel bracket to reach the lower ear at about 6 o clock on the p/s pump.

Am I at the right place? I want to make sure before I start cutting.....

Please advise and thanks again....

Nick.

[craigztoyz]

Craig,

I thought that sway bars use "spring" steel and are heat treated, so any type of heat (welding) would cause it to break at the joint, unless the whole piece got heat treated again.

Is this not the case?

Nick.

NickI was talking about sectioning and adapting the crossmember, with the v8 mounts on it, and with it's lowered height for the rack, and it would allow more space for pan. Craig

[npez]

NickI was talking about sectioning and adapting the crossmember, with the v8 mounts on it, and with it's lowered height for the rack, and it would allow more space for pan. Craig

ahhh. Thanks for the clarification..... Hope the build is going well. I'm jacking with getting the VH p/s pump massaged in.....

Nick.

[craigztoyz]

Going well, actually it is on hold while working on a lot of peoples crap. everyone wants to spend money right now to get PM done to get MPG. Good for me, but bad for my projects. Great for kid though, $$$.

I am waiting for my bolts from Summit.

ARP Pinto bolts (2 bags) for crank, ARP Honda Bolts (9) for clutch to flywheel.

Both extreme strength, and a total of 61 shipped 2-3 days. dealer wants almost 7 a piece, ordered.

Hope to have them on Friday, may work on it Sat, make extensions on my manifolds to plumb it up and try the battery.

[T45]

I have the stock Z 90* fitting on the left side if you are looking at the front of the engine. The fitting faces the rear of the car. It hits on a casting ear by the front cover and just needs a lil half moon type clearance given to it. The H.P. line exits on the bottom of the pump. I'm not sure if it's clockwise or counter now but I am pretty sure it was clockwise because the stock hp line used to exit on the right side and was interfering with the Z frame rail.

I was able to get one bolt into the threaded boss in the back cover and then the other one in the back was one that actually held the cases together. There was a small gap between the pump and bracket on that bolt so I just used washers as shims in between the two. That way it held tight to the bracket and also has tension on the pump housing as well.

No pics. Sorry. I should have taken more but didn't think anyone would be interested.

[npez]

I have the stock Z 90* fitting on the left side if you are looking at the front of the engine. The fitting faces the rear of the car. It hits on a casting ear by the front cover and just needs a lil half moon type clearance given to it. The H.P. line exits on the bottom of the pump. I'm not sure if it's clockwise or counter now but I am pretty sure it was clockwise because the stock hp line used to exit on the right side and was interfering with the Z frame rail.

I was able to get one bolt into the threaded boss in the back cover and then the other one in the back was one that actually held the cases together. There was a small gap between the pump and bracket on that bolt so I just used washers as shims in between the two. That way it held tight to the bracket and also has tension on the pump housing as well.

No pics. Sorry. I should have taken more but didn't think anyone would be interested.

Ben,

I found the problem. I hadn't noticed that the infiniti pump has a cast 90* fitting already in there (My Q hoses are still on the pump) so I was referencing the wrong bolt. I was essentially clocking it differently to get to where you're at. I'm going to remove all the q fittings and put the Z one on there. I'll need to cut my Z one because due to my HICAS setup all of my p/s lines are different than yours.

I'll take some pics of the process and post it here for other's reference and of course give you the proper credit....

Thanks,Nick.

[npez]

Ben,

I found the problem. I hadn't noticed that the infiniti pump has a cast 90* fitting already in there (My Q hoses are still on the pump) so I was referencing the wrong bolt. I was essentially clocking it differently to get to where you're at. I'm going to remove all the q fittings and put the Z one on there. I'll need to cut my Z one because due to my HICAS setup all of my p/s lines are different than yours.

I'll take some pics of the process and post it here for other's reference and of course give you the proper credit....

Thanks,Nick.

Ben,

One more question (I hope!). Are you using the factory front top mounting hole on the aluminum bracket or did you cut that off? If I clock the pump to the desired position, while pivoting on the front top aluminum factory bracket (by bolting one of the p/s pump ears to this hole), the small (about 1 inch) "bubble" on the top of the p/s pump hits the front timing chain cover bolt.

I'm trying to make a determination on what axis you clocked the pump. If it's independent of the front top bracket hole, it may end up where you mention, I just want to make sure before I go cutting something that I end up needing.

Please advise.

Thanks,Nick.

[T45]

I cut off that front mount ear on the bracket. That was the only way to get the pump up higher in the bracket and get the bolts to line up. The 2 bolts in the rear combined with the front brace make for a really solid mount. No worries about it being stout.

[npez]

I cut off that front mount ear on the bracket. That was the only way to get the pump up higher in the bracket and get the bolts to line up. The 2 bolts in the rear combined with the front brace make for a really solid mount. No worries about it being stout.

Awesome! I'll go cut it up and see how it goes. Thanks a bunch Ben.

Nick.

[T45]

NO!!!! I MEANT THE REAR MOUNTING EAR!!!

j/k

[npez]

NO!!!! I MEANT THE REAR MOUNTING EAR!!!

j/k

Funny I almost got coffee all over my screen

I'll be cutting the front bracket today.....

Thanks,Nick.

[craigztoyz]

I am really liking the idea of moving the sway bar to the rear, and using a shorter one, that fits well. It is already above the steering rack, and since I know it could be done with the right pieces, want to look and see. It'd mean a lot more front sump space.