Fresh Ka-t turbo smoking(I dont think it is my seals)

[Afliction523]

Hey guys. I am getting a grey/whitish smoke from teh back of my turbo. It smokes alot. I drove the car a grand toal of .6miles, yes not even a mile. It seems that under slight throttle it stops, but the minute i slow down, bam smoke show all over again. I dont have the pcv off of the valve cover connected to anything(possible issue with that maybe) The only reason was that I connected the idle air control valve to the pipe on the intercooler, but did not run anything for the pcv since i have seen alot of people just run breathers.(again prob not the best idea)



I am running a Borg Warner IHI turbo(fresh rebuild and balance from Dammitboy bought off this forum about a month ago)...good guyJGS feed and return linesI am now also running a .060 restrictor at the turbo as wellThe feed is a 4anThe return is a 10an hose going into 1/2 npt adapters as listed on JGS' web site

I also tried a 90 degree fitting going around the other side of my ac compresser giving me a more direct return, i still have oil coming out the back of the turbo outlet. I have noticed after running the car that their is visible oil at the top of the turbo(looking into the inlet) Here is a pic



I dont think that is normal is it?It seems like there is a build up in it. I live right by AMS, and called them but they were not much help. I guess i need to drop more than a few hundred bucks there for any sort of attention.

Here is a pic of my 1st return line setup.

I dont have a pic of the new one but its basically a 90deg elbow flowing right in.

Any one have any ideas?? I really hope to resolve this issue. I think it is something I have over looked. can my return bung facing downward just slightly make that big of a issue. The only reason it is is because that is how the walls of the oil pan curved, and my supervisor who welded it for me prob. did not even realize that it is curved.

Here is a pic of the oil pan before I installed it.I know the welds are not pretty but they are solid. So all you professional welders, please keep your comments to a minimum....

I need your help guys this issue is driving me crazy.

BTW...for the .6 miles I drove the car it was greaaaaaaaaaaat.....no boost leaks and threw me right in my seat.( I never floored it either)


Modified by Afliction523 at 7:57 AM 4/3/2007

[wild_maxx]

well man... to me it looks like your return is the problem. From the pics it looks as if there is an incline in the return before it gets to the pan. Can you shorten the return line so there's not as much slack in the line?

[Afliction523]

It is shortened currenty by about 6in since it is on the 90 elbow. I dont have to go around the ac compressor now. Tomorrow I am going to buy some clear hose(temporary). I will connect it as my return line and that way I can see if the oil is returning. I keep thinking it is since it is slightly facing the ground rather than facing upward. There also seems to be oil in the top of the turbos oiling system like it has built up there for a while. I have a extra oil pan. I just need to figure out where to get another bung tomorrow so I can weld that onto the other pan if need be.

[Afliction523]

I wanted to add another thing. Correct me if I am wrong please. I am learning. If oil is over the shaft height wont it leak? If you look closely at the pic of my turbo where the feed line connects, you can see oil in it. Since it is there I keep thinking its a return issue. Tell me what you think guys.

[Afliction523]

Here is another pic, a bit better

[drEameRvaJ]

My set-up is blowing a lot of smoke too, not sure where it's coming from. I'm thinking it's my return line also, but no one around here that's KA-T that can help me confirm it is.

[gaehrings13]

If everything is right it might have a bad seal. I don't have any restrictors or anything and I don't have any of those problems.

[S13FX]

Has any of the manifold stuff been used before or is this all brand new stuff being used. I remember I had the same problem with all my stuff after running the car for about 10 miles it all went away. The problem might be some oils and dirt on the parts that get hot and their just burning away. And also everything is settling in.

[Afliction523]

Its def. a oil issue. Ive let it run for a few mins, and nope it keeps smoking. I give it some gas, no smoke then poof smoke when I let off. Does anyone know if the oil levil in the turbo is sitting higher than the shaft will that cause it to smoke? Im going to try a clear return line today and see where the oil is going. I also have a 4an feed with a .060 restrictor. I was told by the place that sold the rebuild kits for this turbo to use a 3an feed with no restrictor, and then only use it if i see smoking still. Any input?

[gaehrings13]

Well if the return isn't working correctly you will definantly have a smoking problem. Try that clear hose and see what happens. If it is backing up then thats your problem.

[Afliction523]

As soon as I get off this forum ill get over to the hardware store and try it. Im actually hoping for a bad return...thats ironic. ha

[WDRacing]

Definitly an oil drain issue. With the supply line disconnected, you shouldn't see oil like that in the turbo. It should definitly gravity drain back to the pan. 1/2" fittings at the pan sound to small to me. I used 5/8...Also, the fitting going into the pan should be angled up.

On a factory turbocharged car, the return actually goes into the block and the fitting is still angled up towards the turbo.

I've been toying with a standalone oil system for the turbo. Not a new idea by any means, but I'd like to build one that's not $800 like the ones available...lol. That would let us play with various lubricants and pressures as well. One day...one day.

If you have a restrictor and are still smoking, then retunr is your problem.

Best of luck sorting it out.

WD

[Afliction523]

Ok, well i just put the clear line in for my return and let it idle. The oil fed down into the pan, and it all looked good. As it ran more, it was hard to see but still looked good. I inspected my turbo, and it seems clog fee. My oil still wants to stay in the top of the turbo for some reason though. Maybe it was a rebuild issue when they built it. I used a air compressor to clear it out(at 30psi) and it flowed out fine, not effortlessly but seemed fine. I appreciate your help.

[Afliction523]

UPDATEMy return seems to build up slightly at the bottem, but i still have a 1 1/2 feet of clear return line. The top where the feed line goes starts to back up after running for a while causing the smoke(i beleive that is why) I checked the center turbo housing and it is clean of debris and restriction. I ran the car without the restrictor and even ran longer than before without smoke. Eventually it built up at the top where the feed inlet is and once it builds up there i get smoke. Now could it be possible that the oil sitting at the bottom of the return line is causing a air pocket in the line thus not letting the oil gravity feed down anymore?

[Dammitboy]

Steve, check out http://www.blaastperformance.com regarding their oil drain kit for the Borg Warner/IHI turbo, supposed to be application specific.

K

[drEameRvaJ]

My car is getting fouled with fuel. My spark plugs are all black within mins. of start-up, I don't see how or why, I have a Enthalpy tuned.

But my car smokes, blah, where did you get the clear return line from? I think I need to get one of those clear lines and check my return line, I have a JGS oil kit line.

Blah, too many problems..

[Afliction523]

The kit is the pretty much exactly the same as what I am running. I see the turbo draining(put in a clear line). When I first start the car...no smoke. Then i see the oil in the drain instead of flowing downward, it starts to flow around the whole tube like there is a air pocket between the oil and where it is flowing. It has trouble going straight down the tube. I look the bottom of my oil line and there is some build up . Like I said there is not enough to push up to the bottom of the turbo but maybe enought to make a pressure in the line against the flow of the return off of the turbo.

[Dammitboy]

Do you think your drain line is getting pressurized? From the way your describing it, that sounds strange. Did you disable your PCV system?

[Afliction523]

I think i have figured it out....new theory...bad packing meaterials= going everywhere when i opened the box(post office prob. did not understand fragile. Well all the "spray foam" the turbo was packed in went into the inlet and outlets of the oiling system. I am now attempting to clean it out. There is debris all inside the return portion. Now I am thinking that it is getting cloged as the car is running which is making the return slow down.....and finally oil flowing over the seals.

[Afliction523]

I found some possible gasket maker in there, and put some more compressed air trought. There is a little resistance, not sure how free flowing it should be. Im going to try and reassemble everything tonight and maybe start her up again. This will hopefully stop the build up at the feed line since the return seems clear. This clear return line helps so much when seeing flow.

[WDRacing]

The air should have NO resistance. Its basically a hollow chamber. Just tare down the center section completely, clean it and reassemble it. It's actually very easy man. Snap ring pliars are the only special tool you'll need. The rest are various sockets etc. There's an article here I'll find for you. It's really the best option at this point man. Plus you can inspect the rear oil seal. I have spare internals if you need them, bushings seals etc.

Article, http://www.honda-tech.com/zero...age=1

WD

[Afliction523]

I cleaned out the center, the only resistance was that there were two chambers that the air had to go trough. I got all the crap out of it. I have everything assembled, and working. It flows alot better, I ran it with and without the restrictor. There is resistance in my oil return when I blow into it and then it clears out. This is oil backing up at the bottom. My original idea was that there was pressure between the built up oil, and the bottom of the return of the turbo. Im going to head over to AMS tomorrow and take my extra oill pan there. I will have them weld a new bung on, if they can. I want it to angle upward so that i dont have this issue again. I also will try to get a 45deg fitting, what ever I can to help it flow straight down. Now that I have gone trough everything that was possible I will have to agree with what you thought it was originally WDRacing. I will update tomorrow once I get the new pan on.

[Afliction523]

Here is my current return with a little editing i did to give everyone a idea. Imagine blue line clear, and where the red little lines are on the tube is my oil build up I have now. Any one got any ideas on maybe a better spot or way to do my bung since I want to get it done tomorrow...again. Does this look like the problem. I know to angle it upwards so that the flow will flow in , but i dont want the risk of going horizontal by the ac compressor any ideas???? Can I run it all the way at the back? I modeled this one after the JDS turbo video

[Afliction523]

So guess what guys.....105 dollars later still smoking. New bung, and fittings from AMS 25 dollars. Welding and oil 55 dollars MT90 trans fluid.... 25 dollars. Well the MT-90 was a extra I guess I cant count that. I removed my AC today also. Any way, I am going to tear down the center section since I should have NO restriction says WD, and My supervisor at work. I will tear it down, and clean it with brake cleaner. I bought some snap ring pliers so I should be good. Ill have a update later tonight when the damn turbo is back together.

[Afliction523]

Ill be posting pics of my findings and my new waste of money return setup since my return was confermed good when i showed ams my pics. Any way I bought new fittings and what not. I took apart the center section of the turbo. I found alot...ALOT of RTV sealent inside. Now im new to turbo rebuilding but should there be a sh*t load of RTV everywhere. Next issue was this coever over the berrings was cracked. I removed it and it practically crumbled. Pics up within the next 15mins. IM SO PISSED. I love the feel of the turbo, but this thing is SH*t and wasted a ton of my money. My install was good,...did not even get to drive the car more than a mile and I have a FU*Ked up turbo sittin in my F*(&ing seat of the 240. Let me know what my plan of action should be next. BTW when i cleared out the RTV it was still hard to blow air trough. Im guessin it cloged up the passages in the feed inlets as well. Im not very happy right now. DAMMITBOY let me know what we can do about this. Is this from your rebuild or who ballanced it. This is basically a giant paper weight right now to me. Thank YOu

[Afliction523]

PIC TIME FIRST MY NEW RETURN, THEN THE GIANT SHAFT IN MY A$$ haha no but seriously this sucks

RETURN SETUP (LEE AUTO PARTS DOES GREAT WELDING)

THE GIANT PROBLEM THAT JUST GETS WORSE

NOW ITS CLEAN

LOOK WHAT I FOUND

SOME BROKEN STUFF HA IT JUST GETS BETTER [IMG]http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j19/a ... o-0091.jpg

I reassembled what I could

Just a shot of something that was ot bad

WHAT DO I DO

[Florida240sx]

Good luck. Oil backign up there wasn't a problem anyways. As long it didn't back up past level point of bung more than 1/2" Mine has a nice angle, but it's gravity drain and oil is thick. As long as it doesn't back up past oil pan top then no problems... Unless Iget on some serious banked turns...

[Afliction523]

Well a functional turbo would have helped me alot. I cant beleive how messed up it really was. I seriously had a nervous breakdown when i got to that point. Im amazed right now. I have spent so much time trouble shooting with this car to find a damaged tubo, and I dont even think I should have seen RTV inside of it on top of that. I would have been batter off with a XS autocrap turbo than this thing. It drains like crap, plus the seal plate which was supposed to be one piece....try 4 on mine

[Afliction523]

While im in the mood for venting. So I have been thinking. If I go with a different turbo...A. My ECU is tuned for this one which equals more money for a reprogramingB. My downpipe is welded for the outlet...which equals more fabrication which means more moenyC. I dunno i wasted alot of moeny todayD. At least the car sounded cool when i drove it down the block...again did not even enjoy one MILE OF ITahhhhIm off to bed

[WDRacing]

There should be NO RTV inside a turbo. You just got ripped off royally. Let me know if there's anything I can do to help remedy this situation.

WD