French Parliament Approves Ban On Face Veils

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lino
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By Angela Doland, The Associated Press

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PARIS - France's lower house of parliament overwhelmingly approved a ban on wearing burqa-style Islamic veils Tuesday, part of a concerted effort to define and protect French values that has disconcerted many in the country's large Muslim community.


Proponents of the law say face-covering veils don't square with the French ideal of women's equality or its secular tradition. The bill is controversial abroad but popular in France, where its relatively few outspoken critics say conservative President Nicolas Sarkozy has resorted to xenophobia to attract far-right voters.


The ban on burqas and niqabs will go in September to the Senate, where it also is likely to pass. Its biggest hurdle will likely come after that, when France's constitutional watchdog scrutinizes it. Some legal scholars say there is a chance it could be deemed unconstitutional.


Spain and Belgium have similar bans in the works. In France, which has Europe's largest Muslim population, about 5 million of the country's 64 million people are believed to be Muslim. While ordinary headscarves are common in France, only about 1,900 women are believed to wear face-covering veils.


The main body representing French Muslims says such garb is not suitable in France, but it worries that the ban will stigmatize all Muslims.


In Tuesday's vote at the National Assembly, there were 335 votes for the bill and just one against it. Most members of the main opposition group, the Socialist Party, walked out and refused to vote, though they in fact support a ban. They simply have differences over where it should be enforced, underscoring the lack of controversy among French politicians on the issue.


The bill passed Tuesday bans face-covering veils everywhere that can be considered public space, even in the street, but the Socialists only want it in certain places, such as government buildings, hospitals and public transport.


France's government has sought to insist that assimilation is the only path for immigrants and minorities, and last year it launched a grand nationwide debate on what it means to be French. The country has had difficulty integrating generations of immigrants and their children, as witnessed by weeks of rioting by youths, many of them minorities, in troubled neighbourhoods in 2005.


At the National Assembly, few dissenters spoke out about civil liberties or fears of fanning anti-Islam sentiment. Before the vote, Greens lawmaker Francois de Rugy said the conservatives "are throwing oil on the fire — you are reviving tensions just to win votes."


Legislator Berengere Poletti, of Sarkozy's party, said face-covering veils "are a prison for women, they are the sign of their submission to their husbands, brothers or fathers."


The niqab and burqa are also seen here as a gateway to extremism and an attack on secularism, a central value of France for more than a century.


Discussions in France have dragged on for more than a year, since Sarkozy declared in June 2009 that the burqa is "not welcome" in France.


There has been some concern the bill could prod terror groups to eye France or its citizens as potential targets. Following Sarkozy's comments, al-Qaida in the Islamic Maghreb issued a statement on Web sites vowing to "seek vengeance against France."


The legislation would forbid face-covering Muslim veils in all public places in France and calls for €150 ($185) fines or citizenship classes, or both.


The bill also is aimed at husbands and fathers — anyone convicted of forcing someone else to wear the garb risks a year of prison and a €30,000 ($38,000) fine, with both penalties doubled if the victim is a minor.


Officials have taken pains to craft language that does not single out Muslims. While the proposed legislation is colloquially referred to as the "anti-burqa law," it is officially called "the bill to forbid concealing one's face in public."


It refers neither to Islam nor to veils. Officials insist the law against face-covering is not discriminatory because it would apply to everyone, not just Muslims. Yet they cite a host of exceptions, including motorcycle helmets, or masks for health reasons, fencing, skiing or carnivals.

In March, France's highest administrative body, the Council of State, warned that the law could be found unconstitutional. It said that neither French secularism nor concerns about women's equality, human dignity or public security could be legal justifications.

Anticipating a ban on the veils, an entrepreneur who tried to run for president in 2007, Rachid Nekkaz, is creating a fund to pay the fines of anyone caught wearing a niqab or burqa.

While he says he opposes the full veils, he says a ban would be anti-democratic, and he is creating the fund "so that my country is not the disgrace of the whole world."

In Cairo, Islamic scholar Abdelmotie Bayoumi said a French ban would not violate Islamic law, but would violate personal freedoms.

"The niqab has no strong legitimacy based on Qur’an or in examples from the Prophet's life that makes it a religious imposition on women. A Muslim woman wears the niqab not because of religious duty, but as a personal freedom," said Bayoumi, whose books include "Contemporary Testimonies," about the full-face veil.

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dickie
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TL;DR

France sez: you don't like it Muslims, please gb2 Middle East.

lulz all around for sure.

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RobPaulson
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good for france, f*** political correctness

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numbnuts240
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wait, wait, wait...when did we allow the frenchies to think for themselves?

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breadbox
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I can already get arrested if I refuse remove a mask or similar device when asked by a LEO.

Norfolk was gonna propose a ban on sagging pants.

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Dittoz7
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breadbox wrote: Norfolk was gonna propose a ban on sagging pants.
Already a law here...lol.

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breadbox
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ORLY? What's the Punishment?

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Urabus GodofTraction
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breadbox wrote:ORLY? What's the Punishment?
If they were smart, sterilization.

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If wanted to wear a piece of clothe over my face I should be able too. Besides, many of these ppl are ugly to the point in wich they should cover their faces lol

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Dattebayo
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Tell me please how you are supposed to ID someone wearing a veil? You better be ready to pay cash, cause Ala isn't gonna help you with that...

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poems2beats
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Point taken. So, if veils are a security risk then maybe they shouldnt be allowed in banks, post offices and other government offices. However in public you deff should be allowed to wear any type veil. Next their going to start making the Muslim males shave their beards....

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Dattebayo
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poems2beats wrote:Next their going to start making the Muslim males shave their beards....
Already happened. Two Muslims applied to be EMTs or something like that. Had to shave because of the mask they have to wear. lol, we've come full circle now.

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Dattebayo wrote:Tell me please how you are supposed to ID someone wearing a veil? You better be ready to pay cash, cause Ala isn't gonna help you with that...
Allah...

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ADDirishboy
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Dattebayo wrote:
Already happened. Two Muslims applied to be EMTs or something like that. Had to shave because of the mask they have to wear. lol, we've come full circle now.
Did they b**** about having to shave?

That's a HUGE health issue. Also, firemen aren't allowed to have full beards either. Your SCBA mask has to have a seal around it, facial hair disrupts that seal.

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MinisterofDOOM
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I love how they defend this as some kind of womens' equality thing. Being denied personal choices is NOT equality.

By damn, we're going to MAKE you equal, if we have to force it on you!

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breadbox wrote:ORLY? What's the Punishment?
A belt cinched at Urkel height.
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Jesda
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Start by banning French bathing habits (ie, none at all)

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for f***'s sake, IT'S FRANCE!!!!! why the hell do we care about what happens in frog territory? let them yellow bellies do what they please and move on with your lives. we have our own problems to talk about, like illegal taco eaters and endangered squirrels.

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sx moneypit
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themadscientist wrote:
breadbox wrote:ORLY? What's the Punishment?
A belt cinched at Urkel height.
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Excellent idea. :chuckle:

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IBCoupe
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MinisterofDOOM wrote:I love how they defend this as some kind of womens' equality thing. Being denied personal choices is NOT equality.

By damn, we're going to MAKE you equal, if we have to force it on you!
QFT.

But Tito's got a point. Let France be French. As long as we're not passing stupid laws like this, I'll be pleased.

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lino
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numbnuts240 wrote:for f***'s sake, IT'S FRANCE!!!!! why the hell do we care about what happens in frog territory? let them yellow bellies do what they please and move on with your lives. we have our own problems to talk about, like illegal taco eaters and endangered squirrels.

Europeans Back Veil Ban, but Americans Oppose
Legal Ban on Certain Muslim Garb Enjoys Wide Support across Europe, but Just 28% of Americans Approve
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/07/ ... 2164.shtml

Barcelona Bans Burqa From City Hall
Spanish Capital Latest in Europe to Address Islamic Veil; Face-Covering Also Banned in Public Markets, Some Schools
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/06/ ... 1316.shtml

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"Barcelona will forbid the use of the burqa, niqab and any other item which hinders personal identification in any of the city's public installations," a statement from the Barcelona municipal government said.

Belgian lawmakers pass burka ban
Belgium's lower house of parliament has voted for a law that would ban women from wearing the full Islamic face veil in public.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8652861.stm

Image

etc...

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lino wrote:
numbnuts240 wrote:for f***'s sake, IT'S FRANCE!!!!! why the hell do we care about what happens in frog territory? let them yellow bellies do what they please and move on with your lives. we have our own problems to talk about, like illegal taco eaters and endangered squirrels.

Europeans Back Veil Ban, but Americans Oppose
Legal Ban on Certain Muslim Garb Enjoys Wide Support across Europe, but Just 28% of Americans Approve
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/07/ ... 2164.shtml

Barcelona Bans Burqa From City Hall
Spanish Capital Latest in Europe to Address Islamic Veil; Face-Covering Also Banned in Public Markets, Some Schools
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/06/ ... 1316.shtml

Image
"Barcelona will forbid the use of the burqa, niqab and any other item which hinders personal identification in any of the city's public installations," a statement from the Barcelona municipal government said.

Belgian lawmakers pass burka ban
Belgium's lower house of parliament has voted for a law that would ban women from wearing the full Islamic face veil in public.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8652861.stm

Image

etc...
but the thread was specifically about france. here, let me reword it:

for f***'s sake, IT'S EUROPA!!!!! why the hell do we care about what happens in bullfighting/frog/pasta/tater/crumpet/chocolate/stoner/watch/viking/feta/nazi/screen door on a sub/something else territory? let them yellow bellies/war mongers/tea drinkers/mafia breeders/native killers/slave traders/etc. do what they please and move on with your lives. we have our own problems to talk about, like illegal taco eaters and endangered squirrels.

feel better? i do.

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sx moneypit
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PHEWWWWWWWW! :chuckle:

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There has to be some hotties hiding under those things!

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she's pretty ho-OH DAMN, LOOK AT THEM TITTIES!!!!!

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themadscientist
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Allah was having a good day when he made that lady. :dblthumb:

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numbnuts240 wrote:she's pretty ho-OH DAMN, LOOK AT THEM TITTIES!!!!!
themadscientist wrote:Allah was having a good day when he made that lady. :dblthumb:
الله أكبر

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numbnuts240
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AppleBonker wrote:الله أكبر
terrorlst!!!!!!!!

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ADDirishboy
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numbnuts240 wrote:she's pretty ho-OH DAMN, LOOK AT THEM TITTIES!!!!!
:spitout: :rotfl :rotfl :rotfl :rotfl

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AppleBonker
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Nah, they scream that whilst blowing crap up. I'm using it to give thanks for some tig o' bitties.


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