Freedom isnt that important.

[Jesda]

Over the last 10 years, the debate has gone further away from a belief in our natural rights and moved toward the idea that we need to be protected.

Protected from:Terrorists hiding under your bedSecondhand smokeThe earthOur carsOur neighborsOurselves

We seem to have no problem, at least not anymore, with allowing government, be it on the local or federal level, to control our lives in exchange for what we perceive to be convenience, comfort, and desired outcomes.

We'll let the media scare us into thinking secondhand smoke is more dangerous than the high-cholesterol Grand Slam at Denny's, so we'll ban smoking.

We'll let ourselves believe that Bin Laden is lurking in the bathroom at a mall in Indiana, so we need more camera surveillance.

We'll let people tell us that the world is going to end if we don't surrender the means of all industrial production (and our cars) to the government.

If we don't turn in our guns, THE CHILDREN will die.

If we don't control the content of television and censor the internet, THE CHILDREN will ALL turn into serial killers.

Anytime a topic comes up that involves government regulation, no one seems to mind the loss of freedom, as if its nothing but a hindrance on the path to a fully cleansed utopian society. Its disturbing.

I'm a little sad and annoyed that I have to start from the beginning every single time, explaining the idea of natural rights, and why personal and economic freedom trump convenience and social justice.

The only time the anti-regulation anti-government-intrusion crowd wins on a subject is if it can prove that the desired outcome isn't there. The outcome shouldn't matter, as the permanent loss of freedom is what's more frightening.

[audtatious]

But...but...but....

Think of the CHILDREN!!!!!

FWIW. second hand smoke is FAR worse than first hand smoke. Just ask people in Cali.

[RobPaulson]

+1 jesda. +1 indeed. Very well said.

[WDRacing]

Well stated...very true and very sad.

[Cold_Zero]

Good job Jesda,This past primary, I refused to be scared into voting for the Republican status quo. My dad laid it on thick and I just plain refused to be motivated by it. If the Republican Party wants my vote again, they can come and try to court my vote. Or at a bare minimum put up candidates like the Governor (Mitch Daniels) of our great state. I am just plain sick of it.

Back to Jesda's point. Of course during the Cold War it was Nuclear Annihilation or the Soviets that we had to fear. Then in the 1970's it was the coming ice age, later it was Y2K, SARs (Bird Flu), Al Qaeda, Global Warming and Swine Flu. Somewhere along the line there were asteroids that were going to collide with the earth and now the Mayan Calendar 2012. I have lost track of it all. I guess you have to use fear to motivate people in this country to do something or vote a certain way. Do I think the threat of terrorism is real? Yes. Is the Global War on Terror (or whatever we are not calling it these days) a good fight? Yes. But it is silly that one of the countries that defeated National Socialism in the 1930’s and defeated Communism during the Cold War can be brought to the brink of cowering in fear by a small group of dangerous terrorists. We had some pretty scary moments in our national history that brought us to the brink of destruction and (I am sorry) 9-11 was nowhere near a threat. I know this is going to piss off a lot of people and I am sure people will question my patriotism or something, but I am beginning to have serious doubts about this country. My freedom is worth a whole lot more than being sold for a false sense of national security. Why should we dismantle the thing that makes this country great so that we can feel better at night (with a false sense of security)? I have always been against the Patriot Act for what it has done to erode American Liberty and Freedom.

[Cold_Zero]

We'll let ourselves believe that Bin Laden is lurking in the bathroom at a mall in Indiana, so we need more camera surveillance.

That is not bin Laden, it is Helio. He is back in Indiana for the winter break.

[WDRacing]

I know this is going to piss off a lot of people and I am sure people will question my patriotism or something, but I am beginning to have serious doubts about this country. My freedom is worth a whole lot more than being sold for a false sense of national security. Why should we dismantle the thing that makes this country great so that we can feel better at night (with a false sense of security)? I have always been against the Patriot Act for what it has done to erode American Liberty and Freedom.

No questioning here. I couldn't express my thoughts clearly enough or I would have said something just like that. I just get to upset even thinking about it.

[AZhitman]

Another genius post by the Man With The Pants.

[PEZi]

FWIW. second hand smoke is FAR worse than first hand smoke. Just ask people in Cali.

[nissangirl74]

It is way past time to remind the "powers that be" that they need to learn their place and remember that those that put them there have the power to remove them....

Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. .....But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

[themadscientist]

But do we, really? Think about it seriously and lay out a scenario where an entrenched government basically says "do what you're told, no elections next year or any other year." What do you think most people will do? Dispel all the fanciful Patrick Henry, Nathan Hale BS and put the average American in the scenario.

I see a very dark time for a very long time. Government is for the most part already so entangled in our lives and in command of so many contributors to our exercising of these mythical freedoms I doubt there would be much trouble in subduing the sheep that walk the earth. Average people are incapable of scratching their own a** without public assistance. Wealth is an intangible entry in a computer somewhere and can be erased in a keystroke.

Do you rise up, lose everything you have and likely die in the attempt? Or, do you do what Americans do so well, watch the bouncy ball, pretend government truly has your best interests at heart and willingly trade what you have for a promise of a rationed life?

It's coming and probably sooner than later. I expect I will be part of one of the early groups jailed or killed resisting when the curtain falls completely while 90% of the population mills around consuming, working and following orders.

[audtatious]

Unfortunately true....

[nissangirl74]

But do we, really? Think about it seriously and lay out a scenario where an entrenched government basically says "do what you're told, no elections next year or any other year." What do you think most people will do? Dispel all the fanciful Patrick Henry, Nathan Hale BS and put the average American in the scenario.

Are you suggesting that we hold no one accountable for their actions? That we just let the government do whatever the hell they want to with no regard to the citizens they govern? That's why we have invested billions of dollars in the past decade oversees in Iraq and now in Afghanistan. Teaching people how to create their own government, elect officials that support their best interests, and killing those that oppose basic human rights. It's a great humanitarian effort to try and help other countries create democracies, but what about the f***ing debacle our own country is in?

[WDRacing]

I know what I would do Mike...and many others just like me. That would be a declaration of war. There are no limits to what I'd do...none.

The Gov would have to show an outwardly hostile force to restrain the people, which would only fuel a rebellion. THIS is exactly why you'll never take my guns...not while I draw breath anyway.

Live Free or Die...nuff said there.

[audtatious]

The problem the Gov has should there really be a rebellion is they would not be able to rely on the military.

[WDRacing]

Very true. Which is why I think we should throw this POS Gov right where it belongs.

[AZhitman]

It's coming and probably sooner than later. I expect I will be part of one of the early groups jailed or killed resisting when the curtain falls completely while 90% of the population mills around consuming, working and following orders.

You'll have company.

There's only so much a man can take, and as the years have passed, I find myself more and more fearful of what the government CAN do to me if they so choose. I'm weary of political correctness. Weary of worrying about how much tax to have withheld. Weary of seeing some get criticized for being successful while others are lauded for their non-achievements. Weary of waching what I say, for fear I'll offend someone. Weary of wasting time complying with some bureaucratic stipulation just to drive my cars. Weary of trying to raise my kids to be good citizens, while they watch the bad ones get a free pass. I'm tired. And angry.

[szh]

Yup ... us angry old men will have difficulty with the new world order.

Z

[themadscientist]

Here here. Something tells me the blood of the sons of liberty still flows through some of us.

Tyranny isn't new and the order is short-lived. I hold out hope that it won't come to it but it increasingly looks like we have a showdown coming.

[WDRacing]

My family has tons of land in upstate NY. If things go bad, you're all welcome to come ride out the storm. The Nico Commune

Buy cheap fire arms and stock up on ammo

[AZhitman]

Here here. Something tells me the blood of the sons of liberty still flows through some of us.

Absolutely. My fear is, there's increasingly fewer and fewer of us, and our leaders have gotten cocky and self-assured.

We ain't dead yet. There's still time for some of this:

[Cold_Zero]

That picture reminded me of this:

[MinisterofDOOM]

I'd proudly stand shoulder to shoulder with all of you.

I know what I would do Mike...and many others just like me. That would be a declaration of war. There are no limits to what I'd do...none.

The Gov would have to show an outwardly hostile force to restrain the people, which would only fuel a rebellion. THIS is exactly why you'll never take my guns...not while I draw breath anyway.

Live Free or Die...nuff said there.

Absolutely. The government would have to think hard about how to respond to rebellion. That's a powerful advantage for the citizens. We can force their hand, restrict their options.

At this point, I would say revolution is inevitable. The only remaining questions are how and when it'll happen and, perhaps most importantly, what will trigger it. Unexpected things can spark rebellions where you least expect it. It could be something otherwise completely insignificant. And the tyrants know that. Constant fear of those they oppress.

Absolutely. My fear is, there's increasingly fewer and fewer of us, and our leaders have gotten cocky and self-assured.

One of the few positive things about war is that it sorts out the real leaders from the power-seekers. Cocky and self assured does not survive long in war. Many of the best leaders in history are those who never wanted power but were willing to shoulder it for the benefit of their fellows.

[AZhitman]

At this point, I would say revolution is inevitable. The only remaining questions are how and when it'll happen and, perhaps most importantly, what will trigger it. Unexpected things can spark rebellions where you least expect it. It could be something otherwise completely insignificant. And the tyrants know that. Constant fear of those they oppress.

I'll be out in front blaring a little of this (eerily prophetic, 20 years after it was written):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DGfXAvgknM

[Jesda]

I don't think enough Americans would revolt. This is somewhat of a lazy, complacent nation full of people who feel automatically entitled to their piece of the pie. The can-do individualist attitude we're known for is fading.

The United States might fade into quiet mediocrity while a new frontier opens up elsewhere.

[themadscientist]

I am ready to "discover" America again. Fly into California, kill all the locals and claim manifest destiny. Then I work my way towards the Atlantic and "win" the east. Bring back some old-school cracka oppression.

[AZhitman]

I don't think enough Americans would revolt. This is somewhat of a lazy, complacent nation full of people who feel automatically entitled to their piece of the pie.

Those are the people I will kill and eat first.