FP 20g gone whats my 400 hp turbo now?

[MyDogsNameIsNismo]

Forced Performance stopped making a 20g. Im looking for a simple 400 wheel horsepower turbo. With a modest build, cams,injectors,maf etc. Using stock manifold what are my real options. Im looking at the larger of the new tomei turbos, but there is almost no real results posted anywhere.

[PyR0NiAk]

Looks like you're going to be shooting for something from the 30 series from Garrett. Supposedly a guy at CIP Motorsports (240sxmotoring.com) is making 430whp on a T2 GT3071R .86 AR like the one I'm running. I'm pretty sure that's the largest turbo garrett makes with a T2 flange.

[kentuckyslider]

You have 2 options...

$1200 GT2871r or 3071R T2

or

$300 holset HY35, T3 mani, and external gate.

Both will spool about the same and end up costing about the same if you can get a good mani for around $500.

I have a friend making over 400whp in a B13 sentra with a HY35 on his SR20 and it is very responsive.

there are pros and cons to both setups but the Holset is rebuildable and the system will have room to grow if you go top mount.

BTW, when did FP quite selling the 20G for $5xx.00?? That is the best deal out there for a proven 400whp turbo but you were going to be doing some custom work to make it work and definately not using the oem mani. I'm putting a big 16g on a SR20 right now for a autocross setup.

[playero_loko]

could also give a shot to the billet turbo PT5857 which will make than enough and spool up justas fast... and im sure if you get the DBB one would be even better.

[kouki munster]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MHI-TD06 ... 1094wt_939


I've had it on my car for a little over 2 years, makes 319hp and 299 tq at 15psi and quite a bit more at 23 psi, it kept blowing out the spark the only time I got it on a dyno, (made 375 tq around 4.5k when it started to blow out the spark so it would have done 400 hp and torque fairly easy)

Afr's were 11-11.5 and and the timing map that my car is running is very conservative.

And fyi, the waste gate actuator that is shipped with the turbo is garbage, alot of dsm guys use these with a actuator off of a 5.9 cummings turbo diesel out of the 2500 and 3500 dodge trucks.

[MyDogsNameIsNismo]

exactly what i was looking for. plus a two year testimonial , it don't get better than that.

[kentuckyslider]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MHI-TD06 ... 1094wt_939


I've had it on my car for a little over 2 years, makes 319hp and 299 tq at 15psi and quite a bit more at 23 psi, it kept blowing out the spark the only time I got it on a dyno, (made 375 tq around 4.5k when it started to blow out the spark so it would have done 400 hp and torque fairly easy)

Afr's were 11-11.5 and and the timing map that my car is running is very conservative.

And fyi, the waste gate actuator that is shipped with the turbo is garbage, alot of dsm guys use these with a actuator off of a 5.9 cummings turbo diesel out of the 2500 and 3500 dodge trucks.

I really like this turbo. Better option than the 2871R IMHO. It cost about $400 less, it's rebuildable, should spool close to the same, will handle much more boost, and it's bolt on to the oem mani.25-30psi on race gas and it will be a tq monster. Even on a SR20.

[codyace]

I'd like to see a graph of that MHI turbo.

Hard to beat the 2871r for average power and average torque. More info on that MHI would be great tho!

[MyDogsNameIsNismo]

Well Tiger Racing used FP's 20g and it's dyno is all over the place. It could be that so many people push the 2871s that the 20g is overlooked. DSM guys used them for a long time. The flow charts for a MHI 20g are available. There could be some variance based on turbine housing, but its pretty safe to assume its 400 hp capable. Sign me up for a rebuildable OEM turbo center all day.





http://www.stealth316.com/images/td06-20g-raw.gif

[kouki munster]

I forgot to mention that my car (s14 sr), with bc 264 cams with a tomei manifold, gets full boost at 4k witch works out great because I rev it to 8k, that gives me 4000 rpms of fun. I can have positive intake pressure as low as 3K but the turbo doesn't really come to life until about 3.5k, so it is by no means a dog to drive everyday, just a slight hint of lag before it hits and tries to fry the tires.

[codyace]

Well Tiger Racing used FP's 20g and it's dyno is all over the place. It could be that so many people push the 2871s that the 20g is overlooked. DSM guys used them for a long time. The flow charts for a MHI 20g are available. There could be some variance based on turbine housing, but its pretty safe to assume its 400 hp capable. Sign me up for a rebuildable OEM turbo center all day.

Oh I certainly know abotu 20g's, was just curious to that brand, if they used oddball housings or whatnot compared to the typical ones used.

And I'm not sure how an 'oem center' section would be any better/worse than a Garrett one...sort of an odd bias to have, especially considering that Garrett/Allied make OEM turbos.

[MyDogsNameIsNismo]

Not really a bias against either one, more of a reiteration of its MHI center, and rebuildablilty. Like I said originally I was very pro 20g, and was bummed when FP stopped selling them. You get pretty jealous when you start seeing what DSM guys get to play with. Imagine if we had a bolton oem 350-385ish turbo for 500 (Big 16g). Which I know is dated, but you can't argue it still performs well

[kentuckyslider]

Cody, I would think both turbos are very close in power. Both have vertually the same wheel sizes. 53.xmm compressor inducers.

Both will have their pros and cons....

The 2871R is dual BB so it should spool SLIGHTLY faster. Maybe not?? IDK without testing. The negative of that is you can't rebuild it. I f it blows you have to buy a $900 CHRA. The other negative to the 2871R is it chokes out past 20-22psi and turns into a heat pump. The 20g can be rebuilt for less than $150 and cost $400 less new. It also has been proven to make serious tq and flow up to 30psi. I don't know if it will flow like that with the T2 turbine housing or not??? I would like to see a car like Cody's or my old one tuned on E85 with a 20g at about 28psi. Should make 450whp/400wtq easily+++. That would be a track beast in your car with the xterra 4.60 gear.

I'm putting a big 16G with a T3 flange on a SR20 now. I'll let you know how that goes. We are shooting for 300/300 with a rom tune and some 550cc injectors on stock cams and intake. Should be a fun little HPDE/autocross car.

[kouki munster]

Tiger racing in atlanta has a couple dyno graphs posted on the internets of runs at 25 psi on a stock s14 sr with bc 264 cams(with stock sprockets) and a cometic hg running race fuel(not sure on what kind) making right at 450 hp and 430 or 440 torque.(if memory serves)

I'll see if I can find some of those dyno sheets and post them.


Edit: found it, and it was at 24 psi with race gas and it made 440 hp and 430 torque

[kentuckyslider]

Thanks for the link monster. That tq number is crazy. I'd say they had a s*** ton of timing in it. That owns any GT2871R graph I've ever seen.

[codyace]

No doubt that the graph is nice, can't deny those numbers at all -- but it's hard to relate race gas type graphs to pump, simply because we can never know what octane, and what 'changes' were made. I think we can all agree that with race gas comes big numbers, but we can't always say big reliability.


For sure the 20g is a cheap turbo to run and use...in the end it will probably end up costing the same initially to go either way, and in the event of failure, certianly cheaper to replace the 20g than the 2871...but how often do we see 2871's failing? Not dismissing the issue, just making light of it being an outlyer to the norm.

[PyR0NiAk]

I love threads like this.

[playero_loko]

you also have to remember that non ball-bearing turbos will need more oiling as opposed to DBB ones! and the more power youre making, the more oiling you'll need and possibly the head wont flow enough oil to support the demand... usually the reason why non ball-bearing turboes fail!

or you can be even cooler and get the new precision turbos that are air cooled so theres no need for coolant/oil line anywhere!!! some of them even come with a built in waste gate and blow-off valve! i will change my GT3076R for a 6262 when i get the money... definetely worth it in my opinion.

[kentuckyslider]

I'll be adding my dyno graphs to this thread in the next month. The first tune will be on E85 and 20-25psi with stock cams and intake. Then we will be adding cams.... BTW, I sold the 16g and bought the ZTL motorsports MHI 20g for ease of install.

The tiger racing car was a s14 sr20 with BC cams, stock short block, apexi power FC, 110 race gas, and 24psi that made the graph above.

I'm using a S13 SR20 with nistune and E85. 75lb delphi injectors on 4bar base pressure. The E85 all the time will help but Im guessing I will need cams to make a 400+ whp# with stock intake. Im sticking with the stock intake for tq.....

[MyDogsNameIsNismo]

Id love to see this. E85 across the street from my house
gl at the dyno