For those with HIGH HORSEPOWER KA24DE-Ts, who has passed emissions?!?!

[MarkEmark]

Hey guys,

I'm planning on building my engine this summer to be capable of about 330 whp @ ~17 psi of boost.

Anyway, I'm pretty nervous about being able to pass emissions after the engine is completely rebuilt with lower compression pistons, oversized valves, different cams, and a completely different fuel system....I'll be running MSD 50 lb/hr fuel injectors, a JWT ECU, and a Z32 MAFS. I may, if money allows, also have an S-AFC II to tweak the a/f ratios and make it run better/less rich than the JWT tune, which could be VERY useful in trying to pass emissions...but I'm not sure yet.

I JUST squeaked through emissions this past spring with my car running 370 cc injectors, stock motor, stock MAFS and a JWT ECU, but it took some creative tinkering to make it pass (very low fuel pressure, very retarded timing, a lot of methanol in the gas tank, etc). I'm worried that changing to even larger fuel injectors, a completely different MAFS, and an even more conservatively tuned ECU (read: rich) that it'll be impossible for me to pass emissions in a year and a half (yeah it's a while away, but I can't just ignore it). After it's rebuilt my car may run beautifully and somewhat cleanly at WOT under a lot of boost, but that's not the way they test it...they test it in lower rpms, probably 2500 or so, and not under boost....and I forget if they did it when the car was idling or when it was moving...but I'm pretty sure it's when the car is idling and in neutral, which means if I'm not running very lean and clean at idle, I'm sorta screwed.

So, for those of you making 300+ RWHP, how many of you have actually passed emissions?

1) What's your fuel management/timing setup?

2) What state are you from/what is the emissions testing procedure?

3) OBD 1 or OBD2? (I'm OBD2, but UNFORTUNATELY, I'm a 1995, so in Connecticut, they put a probe in the tail-pipe...for those OBD2 cars 1996 and above, as long as there's no CEL's, they pass...lucky ducks).

4) If you have the actual copy of the test, what were the numbers?

I know Jeff from ka-t.org is making 340 whp on a fully built KA24DE-T, but he's a 97 OBD2 which means he doesn't need to have a probe to sensor his exhaust gasses...

Thanks in advance,

Marc

[fiznat]

I've been just planning on either leaning it out hardcore with the EMS, or hoping to pay someone off with that new setup theyve got here in CT. I was reading through the emissions procedures that we're going to have to go through and I THOUGHT that they said all OBD II equipped cars will be hooked up to the actual ECU reader thingie. I know that OBD I cars get the sniffer but ehhh Im not even completely sure now.

...At the very least you know that it isnt at state facilities anymore-- now its at individual private shops, so guaranteed within a few months of it starting back up there will be a number of shops willing to "help" people like us with passing.

and hey mark answer my IMs dammit! (my AIM= "foosternit") ;D
Modified by fiznat at 3:33 AM 1/4/2005

[MarkEmark]

I've been just planning on either leaning it out hardcore with the EMS, or hoping to pay someone off with that new setup theyve got here in CT. I was reading through the emissions procedures that we're going to have to go through and I THOUGHT that they said all OBD II equipped cars will be hooked up to the actual ECU reader thingie. I know that OBD I cars get the sniffer but ehhh Im not even completely sure now.

...At the very least you know that it isnt at state facilities anymore-- now its at individual private shops, so guaranteed within a few months of it starting back up there will be a number of shops willing to "help" people like us with passing.

and hey mark answer my IMs dammit! (my AIM= "foosternit") ;D

Modified by fiznat at 3:33 AM 1/4/2005

Yeah, there's always the option of paying a shop off....but I don't want to have to rely on that to pass.

With your AEM EMS you should, theoretically, be able to pass pretty easily given that you have ultimate control over pretty much every engine perameter, but I don't have that beauty...

ALL OBD II cars (that is, 1996 and up) are just just hooked up to an OBD II scanner...but I already went through emissions with their new system and since my car was a 1995 OBD II, it needed to suffer the sniffer test

Sorry about the IMs; I had just gone to bed. On a side note, when is your car gonna be ready to go? I read a post you had about all the annoying little stuff left to do....but it must be nearing completion

[Bronze MFP]

Do you have to pass a visual inspection as well? In my county in NC they look to make sure all your emmisions crap under the hood is hooked up, and that you have a cat, before they even do the sniffer test. I figured i'd just find a place willing to "help" whenever I got my car inspected (if i ever get a turbo that is). But would at least like to pass the sniffer test even if i fail the visual inspection.

[Structure240sx]

talk to a few people now. you will find a place to pass you. i have a friend of my uncles shop that puts a new stock eclipse on the tester for me.

[fiznat]

Yeah, there's always the option of paying a shop off....but I don't want to have to rely on that to pass.

Yeah me neither really, but it kinda is the safest thing to do for our cars though. How stupid would I feel leaning out too far or something silly like that: damaging my car just so I could get a sticker... hey-- we dont even get stickers anymore!

Sorry about the IMs; I had just gone to bed. On a side note, when is your car gonna be ready to go? I read a post you had about all the annoying little stuff left to do....but it must be nearing completion

np, IM me next time you get a chance and you see me online though- I wanna ask ya a few things!

The car is perpetually "nearing completion" it seems, although tonight I did finish a few things that have been really bugging me for a long time. ...And I think I also decided to just go to a muffler shop to have my downpipe/wastegate dump made. Its just too much money/trouble to do it out of nice mandrel bends etc etc. I can get a pretty nice dp made locally for easially under 100 bux said and done....

But yeah, IM me!

[MarkEmark]

Do you have to pass a visual inspection as well? In my county in NC they look to make sure all your emmisions crap under the hood is hooked up, and that you have a cat, before they even do the sniffer test. I figured i'd just find a place willing to "help" whenever I got my car inspected (if i ever get a turbo that is). But would at least like to pass the sniffer test even if i fail the visual inspection.

No visual inspection (thank lord), but my turbo setup is so damned clean they wouldn't know it wasn't completely OEM lol.

I have a catalytic converter too that is flanged on both ends and bolts right in the exhaust I have right now....any other time except for emissions the cat is replaced with a straight pipe.

So no one's actually replied saying they legitimately passed emissions with their high boost setup.....anyone?!?

[TheOne]

my brother has a friend that can pass emissions testing. he even used to use my eclipse to pass his 82 C10 emissions(454 big block + bigger carb & straight pipes = high emissions).you should look at finding somebody cause you would have to REALLY fine tune the air/fuel, since a turbo thows all that off so you can have the power.(sorry if am repetitive as other ppl have allready said this)try puttin the cat back, and doesn't that car come with 2 cats stock? i saw under my brother's 95 240sx and it aparently has 2 cats, 1 comin right after the exhaust manifold & 1 a bit after that.my 93 doesn't come with 2 though, it only comes with 1 right after the exhaust manifold.

[MarkEmark]

my brother has a friend that can pass emissions testing. he even used to use my eclipse to pass his 82 C10 emissions(454 big block + bigger carb & straight pipes = high emissions).you should look at finding somebody cause you would have to REALLY fine tune the air/fuel, since a turbo thows all that off so you can have the power.(sorry if am repetitive as other ppl have allready said this)try puttin the cat back, and doesn't that car come with 2 cats stock? i saw under my brother's 95 240sx and it aparently has 2 cats, 1 comin right after the exhaust manifold & 1 a bit after that.my 93 doesn't come with 2 though, it only comes with 1 right after the exhaust manifold.

I've already passed emissions once with my KA-T so I'm well aware of how much of a pain in the @ss it is...I was wondering for those making BIG power and using BIG injectors if anyone has passed yet...Also, if you read the post, i do have a catalytic converter that bolts directly into my exhaust and replaces a straight pipe that is used the rest of the time. Without this cat I definitely would not have passed.

No, the '95 does not have 2 cats, at least mine didn't...the second cat past the downpipe is just a dummy cat.

[GEO]

So your saying with 370cc injectors, safc-II and a cat, I can pass inspection orwould it be easier to just go the "other route".

[MarkEmark]

So your saying with 370cc injectors, safc-II and a cat, I can pass inspection orwould it be easier to just go the "other route".

You should be able to...

With my 370's and a JWT ECU, I passed...i have an adjustable FPR and the fuel pressure was quite a bit lower than stock, the timing was ridiculously retarded like 12-13 deg btdc, my gas had 15% or so pure methanol mixed with 93 octane, and my cat was hooked up. these aren't exact numbers...I did have it written down in my FSM exactly what I did to pass but I can't find my damn FSM.

[drifts14x]

So if you got a special exhaust made up with like 8 junkyard cats ($10-20 each) and put that on, couldn't you get by for like 10 miles or something, at least through the sniffer and whatnot

[MarkEmark]

So if you got a special exhaust made up with like 8 junkyard cats ($10-20 each) and put that on, couldn't you get by for like 10 miles or something, at least through the sniffer and whatnot

Huh?!?

There's a lot more to passing emissions than just having a functional cat. For the cost of having some weird junk-yard 12 foot long catlytic converter made you could just pay off the attendant or be halfway there to affording an S-AFC II which will help you pass.

[coolcloo1019]

Man, I'm glad that I live in Florida. No emissions here. Would have failed a long time ago with the testpipe and all emissions stuff from under the hood removed.

[D Money]

did you still have egr?

[Big Manne]

no emissions in mississippi. but plenty of rednecks

[C-Kwik]

Just a couple of things. First off, are we assuming you've left the stock emissions equipment in place? If so, then for the most part, as long as everything is functioning, you will likely pass as long as the tuning is right.

HP isn't necessarily what makes it hard to pass emissions either. Larger turbos tend to absorb more heat for a given load so the cat may not be as effective. So it could depend on the size of your turbo. Since most emissions test are tested under light or no load, you will see little to no boost so the power level you run on a particular turbo will have no effect. The biggest detriment to Emissions a turbo has is during the cold start process. There is plenty of exhaust energy to run the turbo and heat the cat, but it just takes a little longer to heat the cat. Once warmed up, you should be fine.

My 6.5 psi T04 powered KA passed smog with no EGR. It barely passed, but it passed. THe numbers that werte off were those that are affected by the EGR so I'm sure it would have passed quite well with the EGR in place. Not as well as stock, but passing is passing.

[chmercer]

you could get a stock downpipe (the kind with the cat in it) and replace the dummy cat with a cat off a f250 or somthing. im liking the ghetto junkyard cat mega pipe idea, though. hahah

[MarkEmark]

you could get a stock downpipe (the kind with the cat in it) and replace the dummy cat with a cat off a f250 or somthing. im liking the ghetto junkyard cat mega pipe idea, though. hahah

Not sure if you're referring to me or not...but as I said before, I have passed emissions before when the car was turbocharged and making probably 100 whp less than what it will be making the next time I need to pass...I also have a direct bolt-in cat to use during such times...and if one of the problems with turbocharging for emissions is that it takes a lot longer to heat up the cat, what sense would multiple cats in-line make? Furthermore, the cat isn't the only thing that's a factor in passing emissions.

This thread is starting to annoy me. Not one person who's making 330+ rwhp (and has 50 lb fuel injectors or bigger, a fully rebuilt engine, and a turbo larger than a t3 super 60) has responded saying that they've actually PASSED legitimately....I know some of the big HP KA-T guys need to pass emissions, so I wish they'd respond.

Thank you C-Kwik for actually adding to the post though...yes I have all emissions equipment in place...and if need be I'll have to bite the cost of the S-AFC II to tune it so I can pass...I'm just nervous that with a completely different MAFS, ECU and substnatially larger fuel injectors than what I had when I DID pass that I won't be able to....

Anyway, in accordance with the title of the thread, I hope some of the KA-T.org guys respond...Otherwise, I guess I'll just have to wait and see...