so i just got a NOS dry shot kit w/ 50 hp jet... I plan on going turbo, and i know that you can gain alot of power from spraying the nitrous onto the FMIC, which lowers the intake temp alot, while not damaging the motor as much as straight nitrous would..
i was wondering if anyone uses something like this, and if they do what kind of power do they see from it..
A freind with an ls-turbo integra gained 30 whp from his intercooler sprayer...
fogger systems?
Re: (180sx)
has anyone run C02 through a nitrous kit? It will do much of the same thing, freeze when it expands... heck of a lot cheaper than spraying nitrous on your intercooler.
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MS180SX
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Re: (180sx)
well my friends dad is a NOS dealer, so i can prob get refills for lil to no $...and i would spray once or twice on the dyno, and at the track...180sx wrote:get alcohol injection alot cheaper more beneficial, and cheap to refilll vs nos
well unless u will spray track only!? nos refills=$
Re: FMIC Nitrous Sprayers? who uses one? (MS180SX)
You can use CO2 and it's about 1/10 of the cost. Plus you can rent the bottle. Whether or not the system is cost effective is another matter as you can just as easily raise your boost.
As for how it works, I am considering making an inline model for the N/A motor. But yes, drasticaly cooling your intake air will give you considerable HP gains.
As for how it works, I am considering making an inline model for the N/A motor. But yes, drasticaly cooling your intake air will give you considerable HP gains.
Recent dyno testing here in Knoxville showed a gain of approx. 14whp using an NOS intercooler sprayer. If I were spending the money on a nitrous kit and on N2O itself, I'd want more than 14whp.
Now, you can use the N2O on your forced induction car without any troubles. NOS offers a kit (Part #0031NOS) to convert your system to a wet kit, which is vital when you go forced induction.
So, for now, you can run the kit dry while you're N/A. Then, when you go F/I, order the kit (it's about $125.00) and spray a wet 50 shot.
The reason you can't go dry on a F/I car is because of the design of the fuel management used on the kit. It utilizes a vacuum tee with a restrictor (should be a replacable jet) interrupting the fuel pressure regulator vac. hose. As the nitrous pressure comes, it increases the pressure at the FPR (via a nitrous pressure regulator between the solenoids), thus increasing fuel spray through the injectors. The design of this system requires somewhere for the excess pressure (air pressure, not fuel) to bleed off (back into the manifold). Once you're F/I, you can't bleed the pressure back into the manifold vacuum supply because it's at X psi.
Trying to run the kit dry with this setup on a F/I results in fuel pressure around 120+psi, preventing the injectors from pulling open, thus resulting in a lean condition and blowing your mill.
The only way to run a dry kit on a F/I application is to hack the MAF, run it blow-through, and spray the dry shot pre-MAF, post turbo.
I say run it, then convert it, then be smiling when you spray it.
Now, you can use the N2O on your forced induction car without any troubles. NOS offers a kit (Part #0031NOS) to convert your system to a wet kit, which is vital when you go forced induction.
So, for now, you can run the kit dry while you're N/A. Then, when you go F/I, order the kit (it's about $125.00) and spray a wet 50 shot.
The reason you can't go dry on a F/I car is because of the design of the fuel management used on the kit. It utilizes a vacuum tee with a restrictor (should be a replacable jet) interrupting the fuel pressure regulator vac. hose. As the nitrous pressure comes, it increases the pressure at the FPR (via a nitrous pressure regulator between the solenoids), thus increasing fuel spray through the injectors. The design of this system requires somewhere for the excess pressure (air pressure, not fuel) to bleed off (back into the manifold). Once you're F/I, you can't bleed the pressure back into the manifold vacuum supply because it's at X psi.
Trying to run the kit dry with this setup on a F/I results in fuel pressure around 120+psi, preventing the injectors from pulling open, thus resulting in a lean condition and blowing your mill.
The only way to run a dry kit on a F/I application is to hack the MAF, run it blow-through, and spray the dry shot pre-MAF, post turbo.
I say run it, then convert it, then be smiling when you spray it.
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MS180SX
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Re: (KATwo40)
yeah.. my friends father like i said is a NOS licensed dealer, so i canprb get the conversion kit for pretty cheap.. um i am not sure if i want to run the nitrous with alot of boost. i plan on using a fully built motor with like a t4 to get around 400 whp..
i was just gonna use the nitrous for the fogger system..but idk.. i want alot of power and the nitrous will help spool up that turbo real quick
i was just gonna use the nitrous for the fogger system..but idk.. i want alot of power and the nitrous will help spool up that turbo real quick
Re: (ROB240)
Yes, a company makes it. It is called Cry02.
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MS180SX
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Re: (KATwo40)
well im not sure of the actual hp gains i will get. Plus i might just hook it up to the motor with a wet conversion kit. i havent decided yet. still have plenty of time to figure out.
Re: (KATwo40)
Man, sounds like a real sloppy way to use N2O and a damn good way to blow a motor. I wouldn't even consider a dry kit, especially with boost. The idea of adding fuel by altering fuel pressure just doesn't seem kosher.
By the way, I have an unused facory rebuilt Garrett T3/T04E 50 trim I'm selling.
By the way, I have an unused facory rebuilt Garrett T3/T04E 50 trim I'm selling.
Re: (Chezedik)
Me? Got a T3 60 trim. Dropping from 300 to 200-225HP. Big cost difference when figuring a clutch upgrade, MAF and what not.
Re: (Edub1)
NOS, owned by Holley, has been making nitrous kits since before many of us were born, and I'm approaching 30. I'm pretty sure they've gotten it down to a slight science by now.Edub1 wrote:Man, sounds like a real sloppy way to use N2O and a damn good way to blow a motor. I wouldn't even consider a dry kit, especially with boost. The idea of adding fuel by altering fuel pressure just doesn't seem kosher.
A dry kit is perfectly safe on a N/A application. Altering the fuel pressure on an N/A motor is absolutely 100% NO DIFFERENT than adding a turbocharger. As boost comes from the turbo, what happens to fuel pressure?
Same thing with the N2O. As the nitrous pressure comes, the fuel psi increases, thus spraying more fuel.
I assure you, it's safer to run a dry 50shot on his N/A motor than it is to slap a turbo on there and boost it 10psi. And we all know that the turbo @ 10psi route is fairly common and seems to work.
Re: (KATwo40)
Fuel pressure only increases with an fmu which most people don't use for the same reason. I know some people do it but most consider it a dangerous substitute for proper tuning. And yes, Holly has been helping people blow up motors for a long time. I guess if you error on the side of caution and dump in 20% extra fuel it can be done safely. It's just so impercise.KATwo40 wrote:
NOS, owned by Holley, has been making nitrous kits since before many of us were born, and I'm approaching 30. I'm pretty sure they've gotten it down to a slight science by now.
A dry kit is perfectly safe on a N/A application. Altering the fuel pressure on an N/A motor is absolutely 100% NO DIFFERENT than adding a turbocharger. As boost comes from the turbo, what happens to fuel pressure?
Same thing with the N2O. As the nitrous pressure comes, the fuel psi increases, thus spraying more fuel.
I assure you, it's safer to run a dry 50shot on his N/A motor than it is to slap a turbo on there and boost it 10psi. And we all know that the turbo @ 10psi route is fairly common and seems to work.
Re: (Edub1)
This is not true, as our cars are equipped with a rising rate FPR from the factory. 1:1 ratio.Edub1 wrote:
Fuel pressure only increases with an fmu which most people don't use for the same reason. I know some people do it but most consider it a dangerous substitute for proper tuning. And yes, Holly has been helping people blow up motors for a long time. I guess if you error on the side of caution and dump in 20% extra fuel it can be done safely. It's just so impercise.
Nothing about a properly designed nitrous kit is imprecise.
Also, I'm willing to bet that the same things that cause cars to blow on N2O are the same things that cause cars to blow on add-a-turbo setups...poor tuning, poor research, etc.
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Iamjohnhayes
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Re: (Edub1)
actually stock fpr's do raise the pressure as "boost" increases an fmu just does in with a larger ratio of fuel pressure per lb. of boost pressure.
and nos works fine if you aren't an *** who tries to run a 200 shot into a non built motor or they try to getto rig the n20. personally im not a fan of throttle in a bottle but if your smart enough to get the right set-up for your car and install it correctly then it is safe.
and nos works fine if you aren't an *** who tries to run a 200 shot into a non built motor or they try to getto rig the n20. personally im not a fan of throttle in a bottle but if your smart enough to get the right set-up for your car and install it correctly then it is safe.
Re: (Iamjohnhayes)
We are talking specifically about a dry system. I'd have no problem with a wet system but perhaps I am a little confused here.
A proper tubo tune uses larger injectors with a carefully modified pulse width to achive proper A/F ratio. An FMU changes the fuel pressure to deliver a theoretical quantity of fuel. Most people do not advise using an FMU because it's not precise. So, a dry N2O system causes a pressure increase that should theoreticaly achive a desired A/F or O2/F ratio just like an FMU. The problem I see with a system like this is that it relies on too many variables and it's causing a rise in fuel pressure that the system isn't designed for. I've heard people say that it's bad to over pressurise an injector. Also, I'm not sure that say a 20% increase in pressure necessarily means 20% more injector flow as the flow characteristics might be different at different pressures. It probably is close but not as precise as a wet system or a proper tune.
I'm no expert but it just seems like there is a lot less that can go wrong in a wet system for a buck or two more.
A proper tubo tune uses larger injectors with a carefully modified pulse width to achive proper A/F ratio. An FMU changes the fuel pressure to deliver a theoretical quantity of fuel. Most people do not advise using an FMU because it's not precise. So, a dry N2O system causes a pressure increase that should theoreticaly achive a desired A/F or O2/F ratio just like an FMU. The problem I see with a system like this is that it relies on too many variables and it's causing a rise in fuel pressure that the system isn't designed for. I've heard people say that it's bad to over pressurise an injector. Also, I'm not sure that say a 20% increase in pressure necessarily means 20% more injector flow as the flow characteristics might be different at different pressures. It probably is close but not as precise as a wet system or a proper tune.
I'm no expert but it just seems like there is a lot less that can go wrong in a wet system for a buck or two more.
I think I see what's happening here. We're saying the same things, only in different terms.
I agree with you about the use of a wet system over a dry system. I tried to show my view on that in my first post, but I suck at the interweb.
However, a dry system, while using an FMU style setup, doesn't overpressurize the fuel system to the degree an FMU would on a turbo system. Fuel pressure on a 50shot dry kit increases by about 10-12psi, whereas a lot of FMU applications see 20-30psi increases, thus making the injectors run VERY close to damage.
Also, the cylinder pressures when using a small 50shot aren't as high as if he were running 8psi on a turbo charger.
Combine these two factors and you'll find that detonation is much less likely in the 50shot dry kit than in a 10psi/FMU turbo setup.
However, in the end, when doing N2O + F/I, you should ALWAYS use the wet setup, unless you hack the MAF, run it blow through and spray the N2O pre-MAF.
I agree with you about the use of a wet system over a dry system. I tried to show my view on that in my first post, but I suck at the interweb.
However, a dry system, while using an FMU style setup, doesn't overpressurize the fuel system to the degree an FMU would on a turbo system. Fuel pressure on a 50shot dry kit increases by about 10-12psi, whereas a lot of FMU applications see 20-30psi increases, thus making the injectors run VERY close to damage.
Also, the cylinder pressures when using a small 50shot aren't as high as if he were running 8psi on a turbo charger.
Combine these two factors and you'll find that detonation is much less likely in the 50shot dry kit than in a 10psi/FMU turbo setup.
However, in the end, when doing N2O + F/I, you should ALWAYS use the wet setup, unless you hack the MAF, run it blow through and spray the N2O pre-MAF.
Re: (KATwo40)
I see. I still don't like the sound of that last part but each to his own.
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WDRacing
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This thread is full of crap ladies...lots of it. Gte your facts straight before you confuse the new guys who all want a boosted 240.
Nitrous by almost any manufacturer can be added to ANY motor at any time assuming you keep the air/fuel mix tuned enough to prevent detonation. PERIOD. Piston speed will spike just as fast when you run a T4 turbo or anything of similer size because they flash spool.
It's all in the tuning. People have been mixing nitrous with forced induction sice the good ole days of the root style blower.
Nirtous is the dollar for dollar best power adder used today...aside from straight boosted motors running on nitromethane.
for 700 bucks I can have a 500 pro fogger kit installed....
But the refills suck...lol. Boost is all day everyday, which is why 99% of us are here right now.
One more thing to not forget with nitrous is timing...2 degree's retard per 50whp shot will keep you safe.
If anyone else posted some of that info already, sorry...I'm busy as hell and only have time for a skim.
WD
Nitrous by almost any manufacturer can be added to ANY motor at any time assuming you keep the air/fuel mix tuned enough to prevent detonation. PERIOD. Piston speed will spike just as fast when you run a T4 turbo or anything of similer size because they flash spool.
It's all in the tuning. People have been mixing nitrous with forced induction sice the good ole days of the root style blower.
Nirtous is the dollar for dollar best power adder used today...aside from straight boosted motors running on nitromethane.
for 700 bucks I can have a 500 pro fogger kit installed....
But the refills suck...lol. Boost is all day everyday, which is why 99% of us are here right now.
One more thing to not forget with nitrous is timing...2 degree's retard per 50whp shot will keep you safe.
If anyone else posted some of that info already, sorry...I'm busy as hell and only have time for a skim.
WD
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WDRacing
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Re: (KATwo40)
Yeah I know, I was just saying for the record that its perfectly ok to use both.
I also think water/alcohol injection is a far better way to cool the intake air charge. Spray bar tech just isn't my thing. If you want to use nitrous, then I'd say spray it directly into the motor.
WD
I also think water/alcohol injection is a far better way to cool the intake air charge. Spray bar tech just isn't my thing. If you want to use nitrous, then I'd say spray it directly into the motor.
WD
Re: (WDRacing)
The bulk of the thread was about me saying that I wouldn't trust a dry kit. I have no problem with a wet kit.