FMU recalibration

[Doya]

I got a 12:1 vortech FMU I picked up pretty cheap locally and I was wondering if there was any way to recaibrate it to a 6:1.

[neverlift]

50 bux from vortech, thats what I did.

You can also rig a bleeder valve and "tune" it down to your needs.

[ka-t4u]

bleeder valve?? what type?? would you mind sharing the knowledge?? this will allow for adjustment of the FMU??

[neverlift]

sure. all you do is let some air bleed off, however is probably far less accurate than a recal kit would get you, we already know for the average kat an 8:1 is too much fuel, I grabbed a 7:1 and should have went with a 6:1.

Really without a dyno/wideband dont mess with it. Get the 6:1.

As wd said at some point pressure vs flow peters out. So starting from a low disc makes sense if you have a decent afpr to tune the fueling. Then you could run more boost at a safer fuel pressure. I cant tell you exactly what to do on the bleeding off air as I have yet to touch it. However my base fuel pressure is no longer 43.5 more like 38ish. Still same richness under boost but now I have one more psi I can do safely.

[WDRacing]

You need this.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/VOR-6Z170-010/#



I wouldn't mess with a bleeder valve, you're only complicating what is supposed to be a very simple and effective system. What I do recommend is the super secret, ultra cool soup can mod. Can be used on the wastegate as well. You take a soup can, or anything that size, and install 2 vacuum bungs one on each side of it. Then install the can inline between the vac source and the FMU itself.

So it will go, vacuum source from the intake manifold - soup can - FMU. You might be saying, why the F would I do that WD? Because WD reads endless articles online and knows that installing the soup can will delay the vacuum signal from reaching the FMU for a second or 2. This small delay prevents the initial overly rich condition that the FMU is know for. Although the 6:1 may not suffer from the same issue. So I'd install the FMU after you change out the disk and make it 6:1, drive it around and see if it feels good. If you have a wide band, look at the AFR just as you're coming into boost, if it's hitting the low 11's or a 10 you can benefit from the Super Secret, Ultra Cool soup can mod. But if you use it, you must call it...The Super Secret, Ultra Cool soup can mod.

If you use this mod on the wastegate, which would just require an extra vacuum bung on one side, it prevents the wastegate from opening early. All wastegates will crack open as the boost increases unless you have an electric boost controller that uses a solenoid valve. When the wastegate cracks open you're losing boost pressure far earlier then you want to be. By delaying the signal not only will you reach full boost faster, but you'll be making more power ALL the time as boost builds. In testing it's shown to decrease spool time 500-700 rpm and make more 15-25 hp earlier.

I should probably make a new thread about this...

WD

[neverlift]

why have you not is a better question. This include external gate wd? man 2k spool up would be friggin insane, I could stay under 4k drifting time to work son

[ka-t4u]

wait, so the super secret, ultra cool, soup can mod can yield better spool up when done to the waste gate??

[Doya]

Thanks man, $40 bucks isn't bad at all. I'm defenitly interested in The Super Secret, Ultra Cool soup can mod . I have a question though, how am I suppose to get the soup out of the can? Do I just use a can opener to take the top off normally and just weld it back on or what

[WDRacing]

Buy a can of chicken broth, drill/puncture a small hole and drain the broth Then use the drainage hole as one of the holes you screw the vacuum bung into. Seal the bung with JB Weld. Repeat on opposite side. I guess I should mention rinsing it and drying it

Works on all wastegate types. It's just a DIY method of delaying the vacuum signal long enough to allow the turbo to reach full song before the gate opens.

WD

[Doya]

UHH sorry, I was thinking of like chicken noodle soup Can I keep the cambells label on The Super Secret, Ultra Cool soup can mod

[ka-t4u]

awesome!!! definatly doing the super secret, ultra cool, suop can mod to my waste gate and my fmu when i setup my turbo, and definatlyleaving the label on it so when i open the hood people would be like: this guys is super ghetto!! lol , also i'll be sure to keep the super secret, ultra cool, soup can mod, as a super secret!!!lol

[Doya]

Also, I read that if you have a s14 fuel pump, you don't necessarily have to swap it out with a walbro. Is that true?

[neverlift]

yeah I think wd was saying that a couple days ago... let him confirm or not though.

[WDRacing]

That is correct, the S14 fuel pump is better then the S13 pump. But a fuel pump is cheap insurance that you won't run out of fuel if you get a boost spike. The stock pump is in unknown condition, probably high mileage etc. I'd hate to see anyone pop a motor running 7 psi because their pump started to crap out on them.

WD

[Doya]

Thats a good point. I'll upgrade just to be safe. Thanks

[Blown240sx]

this whole thread feels ghetto lol

FMUs and Chicken Noodle Soup cans

[WDRacing]

Ok, how about the Skynet Variable Pressure Device and the Matrix Fuzion Delay Reservoir? Sound cooler now

[neverlift]

f***in owned

Ok, how about the Skynet Variable Pressure Device and the Matrix Fuzion Delay Reservoir? Sound cooler now

[240freak90]

Ok, how about the Skynet Variable Pressure Device and the Matrix Fuzion Delay Reservoir? Sound cooler now

wd, ur the s*** lol the super secret, ultra cool, soup can mod is by far one of the best things ive ever heard

[Doya]

[Blown240sx]

Ok, how about the Skynet Variable Pressure Device and the Matrix Fuzion Delay Reservoir? Sound cooler now

Doesnt change the fact they sound like some items you might see on a As Seen On Tv advertisement. The Turbo Encabulator!!!

Want the boost to hold off buy an electronic boost controller. Thats what the gain settings are for. Want to tune your fuel properly get Nistune or something thats safer than pushing the fuel pressure to gods country.

People do ghetto setups then wonder why their s*** breaks.

[Blown240sx]

This coming from you. The guy with a lip on his car made of WOOD. A full EBAY turbo kit.. And looking for tuning options with an FMU...

Really?

[WDRacing]

Doesnt change the fact they sound like some items you might see on a As Seen On Tv advertisement. The Turbo Encabulator!!!

Want the boost to hold off buy an electronic boost controller. Thats what the gain settings are for. Want to tune your fuel properly get Nistune or something thats safer than pushing the fuel pressure to gods country.

People do ghetto setups then wonder why their s*** breaks.

I'm gonna go easy on you because you're not a frequent KAT flyer and are obviously the type of person that judges others based on the amount of money spent and the bling attached to the name of the object. I shop at Ross and Wal-Mart and browse junkyards looking for deals. Maybe you can call me ghetto WD, since I am not rich. I fabricate my own manifolds, piping and as much other stuff as I can. I do this because I don't have a budget that allows me to do anything else. Does this mean I'm not extremely well versed in forced induction? No...

For those of us on a budget the FMU is an excellent way to supply the fuel required for on boost conditions. Are there better options? Duh...no one is arguing that. That doesn't change the fact that the FMU works and works well. Arguing that it isn't safe is not only dumb, it's wrong.

Notice you'll never hear (read) me say to run more then 8 psi without retarding your base timing or using another means to ward off knock. If I want to crank the boost up and use the FMU, then you'd have to assume that I'm not just doing so all willy nilly. I have the MSD knock meter, I have wide band O2 and I have a fuel pressure gauge inside the cabin. I will also not go over the max line pressure. I'm not telling anyone else to do do this...but I might.

The FMU is definitely not the cause of peoples failures. Bad uninformed choices and knock-off parts purchased on eBay have nothing to do with the FMU. The two can't be related. If anything, using the FMU is the only correct part of most budget setups. It's FAR better then the SAFC and other piggy back controllers. I could explain why but I doubt it would matter.

We have members right here on Nico that have been running the FMU for years with NO problems.

You may not mean to, but you're slandering like 50% of my forum. So go ahead and stop

WD

[Blown240sx]

Reason i see the FMU as a bad option is because of this.

The flow rating of the Walbro 255 drops as you increase FP. If you increase FP you add load also to the pump. Factory pressure is 32 or so and upwards of 40-50 under factory load. You add a FMU you can increase this up to 10 maybe more psi. This drops the flow rating of the Walbro to 1 or less gallons per min. This is still plenty of fuel but the amp draw on the pump increases to 12 amps. Which is double of what it normally should run at. Stressing a vital part of the cars systems. I see this as a cause of pump failure or possible abnormal output potentially causing motor failure.

Also I fully under stand how the SAFC works and how it can be more of a problem than a solution. But I dont see it as any worse than the FMU. I see it actually safe because as long as your not trying to run 740cc injectors your fuel pressure stays normal. Your timing map will change some because of how the SAFC works but can be easily fixed by retarding the base timing a bit more.

If it was me Id save my money and just do it correctly. Buy a chip or Nistune.No one seems to see the ease and beauty of doing it right the first time so you dont have to mess with a bigger problem later.

Also Rich.... No . Ive built every intercooler setup ive had on any car, made my own mounts, fabed my own down pipes and exhausts, installed a random amount of motor my self, and turbod many other peoples KAs. I know pretty much what Im doing also so dont think Im some moron.

Also Ive worked with Hondata, Nistune, Power FC, Haltec, Megasquirt, SAFCs, and many other stand alones. I see the advantages and try to steer people to doing it the right way.

[Doya]

This coming from you. The guy with a lip on his car made of WOOD. A full EBAY turbo kit.. And looking for tuning options with an FMU...

Really?

Haha, I've seen plenty of people use wood for a front lip, it's a cheap efective way to add front down force.

As for the ebay turbo kit, I'm only 16, still in school, and have a part time job. I make like $150 a week. So yeah, you could say I'm on a pretty tight budget. After I put gas in my car and put aside money for my insurance, I have like no money left.

Don't come on here saying a bunch of s*** about using a FMU when you don't even know what your talking about, because if you did, we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

[WDRacing]

He's allowed to have his opinion. The things he listed are indeed correct, albeit exaggerated.

I've never read about a FMU causing a 255lph pump of any brand to fail because of load demand. But I also only recommend the FMU for low boost setups. What I do is not for everyone. So when I say I'd crank up the boost, it's because I'm willing to take the risks involved.

If you have the means to use a different tuning method, then by all means you should choose the best option you can afford, ROM tune being my choice unless you're into tuning.

Lets get this thread back on topic.

WD

[neverlift]

Well my walbro didnt fail last night after 3~4 hard 4~5 minute runs at the local slide spot, at 11psi. Funny thing is it sounded more like a walbro afterward. More like a loud buzz, like the last one I had. Car started right up this morning and boosted right up to 11psi without afr drop off. HOWEVER I have some water added into the equation now, but the fact remains I ran for two weeks without ill effect at 10psi and a 7:1 disc fmu. Do I tell others to do it, no... But some people will push the rules, flex them if you will. wd has stated countless times how safe and effective an fmu can be, for low boost. He states this , simply because its true. Countless issues have been had by mail in tunes. Not so much with ~name brand~ fmu's. Not to mention they have been around for ever in functional setups. Am I dissing rom tunes, nope if you got the cash to do it go for it! Personally I dont have 350~500 bux for a rom tune, then 50~150 for a retune, plus injectors/maf. My 20 dollar fmu and 50 dollar recall kit on the other hand have yet to fail me, so I am going with what works.

it is simply the cheapest most reliable low boost setup you can run.(gotta love the grammar )

If ,IF! you bought the big daddy fmu fully adjustable brand new, you would come out cheaper than the cheapest(talking worth while tunes) mail order tune, before injectors and a maf. Then the afc another "cheap" option, is not that cheap when its all said and done.

Please dont let our bias opinions run you off. I love rom tunes, I tried my hand for a while on my sohc till it lost a rad hose then took some of the basic rules learned and applied them to a dual cam with a stanza ecu(consult ready) The thing ran like an animal and was VERY reliable. A cold start timing issue(erratic timing until warm) finally put me off, coupled by a pc crash with ALL my .bins/.adrs I gave up the hunt.

[eazye2000]

But some people will push the rules, flex them if you will.

I'm one of those guys. I love bending the rules and going against the grain. If you have been around long enough, you would know what I'm talking about. Unplugging wastegates and such.

And don't let WD take all the credit for the soup can idea. You ever look under the hood of an old Ford? Although, I never thought about using it for what he had explained. I must say I am impressed with the idea.

This is why I love the KA, and the 'T' that we home-brew guys put at the end of it. It's something that they say still shouldn't be done, and we will just keep waxin' their tails with our 'truck motors'.

[Blown240sx]

I agree the situation I presented is not a common situation but you have to admit by looking at the two situations; a Fuel Pump pushed to twice the normal amount of use to make the correct AFR vs Adjusting the Fuel injector Pulse (keeping a constant lower FPR), the tuned ECU/Standalone is a much safer option and the correct way to do it.

Also going back up to the original posters comments about wood lips... A lot of people do it? Id laugh at someone with the use of wood other than for sub boxes or cover panels for interior on their car.Also what do you need all this down force for? Your not road racing. Drifting I seriously doubt your reaching speeds that any splitter or lip would make enough down force to keep your morning wood down, much less the front of your car.

[DMan II-40]

Soup can sound like a great idea, one day I will try it.

I do see your reasoning behind why it could be bad, but I really haven't read that being a problem so I don't see why your stressing it so much.

Also, I have read that wood splitters is great for someone on a budget. It works, and is very simple and cheap to make a new one if it breaks.