Float,and TMS help please

[Armendo89]

I have some EMS questions for you guys. First let me tell you what were working with. I have a 1997 Nissan 200sx Se-r sr20de and I took a fully built bluebird sr20det head and did a head swap. Now I have some questions on how to make this thing run properly. Should I just get a power-fc tune it and call it a day or should I get a blue bird ecu and get a ROM tune? BTW this car is NOT turboed.. yet. I dont think it will run properly or at all with the sr20de ecu do to the fact that the DE heads ignition timing was controlled by a distributor and the DET head is controlled by coil packs(the cars complete ignition theory was changed), also we went from high impedience side feed injectors to low impedience top feed injectors that are much bigger. I already solved the injector impedience issue with a resistor box and the tune will take care of the A/F mixture. Also do I need an ignitor for the coilpacks? All suggestions and advice are welcome and appreciated. Here is a full build/mod list.

This SR20DET head was disassembled, cleaned, inspected, and reassembled with the following components:
-competition 3 angle valve job with 0.040" valve seats
-Valve job performed on a Serdi machine
-cylinder head ported and flow tested on a SuperFlow 600 flow bench using Audie Technology digital interface
-exhaust valve guides replaced with manganese bronze and honed to spec
-all 16 valves reground using Kwikway valve grinding machine
-cylinder head deck milled to ensure flatness(0.010" deckmill)
-valve shims ground to fit Tomei solid lifters
-fwd sr20de valve cover powder-coated black with breather baffles removed and rear breather tube plugged off
-HKS adjustable camshaft gears
-Greddy rocker arm stoppers
-Tomei solid lifter
-Peak Performance race spec valve springs
-oem valve stem seals
-HKS 272 step 3 intake camshaft(228 degrees at 0.050" lift, 12.6mm lift)
-Nismo 280 exhaust camshaft(224 degrees at 0.050" lift, 12.6mm lift), this is an extremely rare camshaft. it was briefly made and I had to buy it directly from a distributor in Japan.
-FWD Cometic 0.040" MLS head gasket
-Nissan Pulsar GTI-R individual throttle bodies cut and rewelded to be used on a rwd configuration sr20 engine. after welding intake plenum port matched.( This head was initially built for a RWD car but the customer backed out and I bought the head so I made a new custom Intake manifold with the individual throttle bodies)
-Profab insulating intake manifold spacer gasket
-444cc top feed injectors (bluebird Injectors)

Now it's time for Engine management and I want to know what you guys think I should do, I appreciate all of your suggestions.
Thank you, Anthony

[Ron240sx]

Is anyone else wondering why this is in the CA18 section? Instead of sr20?

[Armendo89]

It is in the sr20 forum but every time I post something such as this in there nobody replies. So I'm asking for some advise here.

[themadscientist]

SR guys are heavy on the hate. I'll give er a shot.

The easy answer, none of the above.

Why? well a couple of things:

I am not aware of a direct fire SR20DE so to run those coils you need a DET harness and computer. Now, a turbo engine is an NA engine until it hits boost, but it has different compression and cams. Relying on the DET's off-boost maps might get you running, but far far from ideal. You have put some serious money and work into that top end. To skimp on the ECU to run it would be silly.

Go the last yard and pick up an aftermarket EMS and all your problems will be solved and the amount of user-friendliness would be infinitely superior. You lose the AFM, have total control and in the long run will realize the full potential of your mill. Leave the stock s*** to run stock motors. Throw up some pics at least!

[Armendo89]

Thank you TMS and I'm having trouble posting pics on here do you have an email? Also what EMS would you recommend I emailed Greddy and they said a emanage ultimate would satisfy the cars needs but like you said I'm not trying to skimp on an EMS by any means I was leaning more toward a power-fc but if you have a better recommendation I would like to read into it.I'm willing to spend up to 2000 on an EMS.

[ganma_ca]

You'll notice that on the CA forums there are people who actually "Know", when you are on the SR forum it's EPIC FAIL EVERYWHERE!!!!!!!! I guess it makes sense. CA guys are generally older hence the older engines lmao and SR's are the babies of the group so they show their diapers on the SR forum! It makes me throw up
I am actually going to be taking pictures soon but I now have 3 engines for the most part covering 3 generations of Silvia engines I should start a museum! I have the CA,S13 Sr20det (black top) with no vtc, and then an S15 Sr20det(figured just about the same as the S14 only the last generation made(2002 model SR). But yeah it's kinda ironic. I post a question in the SR forum it's nothing but poop jokes, I talk to TMS/Float/DEE on here and I get answers. (And even dirty SR parts from TMS lmao!) So yeah screw the SR forum guys they are all fubar. I don't blame you for coming to the forums where people actually know what's up!!!! CA forum FTW

[themadscientist]

The Emanage Ultimate is just a piggyback. Like the most intense piggyback ever, but it's still sitting on the OE ECU making it do things it doesn't want to. It's not a standalone.

You can get a few for twenty bills.

Haltech Platinum Sport 1000
http://thmotorsports.com/haltech/haltec ... 19672.aspx

SDS EM5-4F
http://www.sdsefi.com/specific.html

[s13drifter88]

Most (I said most) SR people and d*cks and they usually dont know d*ck about d*ck! Its largely a fanboy community and comes with the usual fanboy hate. As stated above, were running older engines so slapped together swaps arent seen as much here. Consequently a little asking and reading are required and learning to appreciate others that help comes from that. I like CA people lol.

For what youre doing your outside of several management options. Mad man posted probably the best 2 out there for what youre doing although you could look into AEM EMS since you have an SR and its offered for your engine. I dont know about Apexi Power FC but look and see and let me know. Ive been a Romtune or Nistune fan myself but nothing Ive done has ever required more. So either look into the above stated standalones or run yours off red top hardware and add Nistune. Im not sure what itd take for the harness to work (if much at all) but you could try that since a harness and ecu with Nistune might be cheaper than any of the other listed standalones. Keep us posted


Did it sound like I hate SR people?

[themadscientist]

The CA's theme song.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LjbMVXj0F8[/youtube]

[Armendo89]

I absolutly love this forum. I'm on here reading every night before bed for every issue I have had questions on this CA forum has always been there to help me for the most part. I also have a 1990 240sx coupe with the silvia front end conversion and yes it's CA powered I love my CA but it's been giving me hell lately and I can't get it to run properly I'm at the point were im going to pull the motor and do a rebuild (after the 200sx is finished lol) I work on both of my cars daily. I really like the sr20det ecu and harness idea with nistune but that means I would still have to run a MAF. This 200sx will be boosted in the future so I think its best to just go stand alone and do away with the maf. I looked into the SDS and I have to say I'm a fan and it's right in my price range. I am going to talk to the shop thats going to do the tune for both my cars and see what there more comfortable tuning with. My CA at the moment has come along way but its not drivable yet. its revves to 5000 rpm then breaks up and shoots fireballs with no load on it. I tried to take it on its maiden voyage yesterday to see how it acted with a load on the motor and I barely got out of the driveway it was breaking up and bucking so I just pushed it back into the driveway lol. I check the mechanical timing on it and it was dead on. I dont have a lower timing cover so I can't set the ignition timing with the cas and timing light. I have also replaced all the factory sensors on it and continuity tested everything back to the ecu just to make sure signal was getting back and forth. I have an SAFC2 in the car and I think that's whats giving me issues to be honest but I cant pull it because it has the fuel map on it and I'm running a gt28 turbo. I'm pretty much out of ideas on how to make this car run because I'm not experienced with tuning so I may have to bring it to a tuning shop and try to have them sort it out.

[s13drifter88]

Wrong maf setting on the safc it sounds like. Should be 7in 7out for stock maf

[boost_boy]

A super AFC is just a band aid and will not give you a fair opportunity to properly tune let alone protect your engine. Unfortunately, the safc has a compromise when it comes to the CA18DET's specific likes and dislikes. Some of you may not like my recommendation, but if you want to step your power and performance game up, you'll need to break-out those credit cards, debit cards or sell some booty. Money makes the world go around and also causes a spike in horsepower when applied accordingly .

[s13drifter88]

^^^ Im looking for the like button now

[themadscientist]

I never used a hose clamp for a fuel pressure regulator....

[mdb4879]

I really hope you either mean on cars with low fuel pressure (like carbureted motors) or you use AN fittings

[blownhemi]

I've been wondering this for a while, maybe now, that all the great minds are in one place, someone can answer this.
An engine needs fuel and spark, the right amount, at the right time. What exactly about this does the stock ECU not do correctly? What does an aftermarket ECU do different about fuel and spark, that the stock ECU can't do, and that also lets you extract more power from an engine?

[themadscientist]

I really hope you either mean on cars with low fuel pressure (like carbureted motors) or you use AN fittings

Nope, FJ20 in an 83' Skyline. I needed more pressure.

[themadscientist]

I've been wondering this for a while, maybe now, that all the great minds are in one place, someone can answer this.
An engine needs fuel and spark, the right amount, at the right time. What exactly about this does the stock ECU not do correctly? What does an aftermarket ECU do different about fuel and spark, that the stock ECU can't do, and that also lets you extract more power from an engine?

Adjust the settings easily with a laptop
Offer more map resolution for finer tuning
Process data faster for quicker reaction
Eliminate performance-robbing things like air flow meters
Let you run crank-fire timing for better high RPM accuracy
Offer multiple schemes for ignition and fuel to include batch and direct fire
Allow the use of multiple injector types with proper resistors
Offer firmware updates for better function

And of course, have a killer theme song

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2Iio8lnYP4[/youtube]

[s13drifter88]

CA18 owners club theme song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKRKO-y6wlo

Mad man I think I like you. Two songs youve posted and theyre both metal. Yep... youre good people!

[themadscientist]

I like anything with a good beat and something to say. I don't have much new stuff. My CD collection is eclectic. That CD is on top of a Public enemy one which is on an Ohio Players one which is on an Alan Jackson one which is on an X-Japan one and then a Raphael Saddiq disk. I do want to pick up some Skrillex. I'm liking his stuff recently.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJVmu6yttiw[/youtube]

[s13drifter88]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FYJV5BM9nM

[boost_boy]

I've been wondering this for a while, maybe now, that all the great minds are in one place, someone can answer this.
An engine needs fuel and spark, the right amount, at the right time. What exactly about this does the stock ECU not do correctly? What does an aftermarket ECU do different about fuel and spark, that the stock ECU can't do, and that also lets you extract more power from an engine?

Yeah, whatever the mad-man says plus, it makes for a cleaner install. And the beauty of it is, I get to make the engine do what I want it to do as opposed to what the factory engineers designed it to do. My engines are not stock, so I have no use for a stock ecu with no immediate accessibility to adjust parameters needed to accomodate modifications that will make my engine perform better. When I installed my first SDS engine management in 2001 and got it tuned, I "fired" nissan's stock electronics with the quickness and never looked back .

[Armendo89]

Hey Guys,
I know its been a while but I wanted to give you an update on this build and maybe you could help me figure out whats going on. So we decided to go with an AEM Series 2 ecu and it worked out well. The car is at the garage now but has been tuned already as of yesterday. The only new changes to the build since I posted this is we swapped out the MAF for a Map sensor since we plan to boost eventually and we added an air temp sensor nothing big but just wanted to make you guys aware of what we are working with. Now the car put down 119whp and 105 torque which honestly I'm kinda embarrassed about haha (this car NEEDS boost.. I know) but first we need to work out an issue the car is idling at 5000rpm and the ITB's are adjusted all the way down so I was hoping you guys could give me some ideas on how to resolve this issue. BTW we already checked for vac leaks and there aren't any that was my first guess. Any and all input is appreciated you guys have been awesome helping me resolve issues in the past so I'm hoping you'll come through for me again haha.
Thanks, Anthony

[Armendo89]

BTW I'm starting my rebuild of my CA in 2 weeks I'll keep you guys posted on that as well

[float_6969]

It's either a vac leak, or the ITB don't have enough adjustment to them to be able to get the idle down. Nothing in the tune could make it idle that high.

[themadscientist]

Take your foot off the pedal!

You have some crazy air leaking into the intake. have you looked to see if the throttles are closed?

[Liquid_Neon]

119whp aint bad for an SR that's NA right? I mean factory they only had 140bhp which I'm sure would show up as closer to 105whp or so. But i suppose when the bugs are ironed out u should see more with the cams and crap u got, right? 140-150whp should be possible, right?

[themadscientist]

My stock CA18DE was spinning the rollers at 150HP with basic bolt ons. It had no torque, but on a roll could surprise people. Of course, you did need to wind it up to 8k which was really stressing the rod bolts badly.

[Armendo89]

I smoked the intake out and couldn't find any leaks, how would I get more adjustment out of the ITB's if possible? I am going to remove the plenum so I can get a better look at the butterflies even if they weren't closed all the way it's revving at 5000rpm thats damn near wide open it's very strange to me when there adjusted all the way down. Not only that I asked the garage that tuned it if they wanted to take care of it for me and they didn't want anything to do with it when they have those same ITB's on one of there race cars they said I have to take care of it which I don't mind I just have to figure out whats going on with them. Also I discovered a oil leak at the valve cover gasket and the distributor gasket(small but still leaking) could this have any affect on the idle?

[float_6969]

It wouldn't take very much throttle opening to get it to idle at 5K at all. Certainly not anywhere near wide open.