Flag burner pilloried in Valley Falls

[NY94J30]

I think that this is the best of possible outcomes. Justice served.

Flag burner pilloried in Valley Falls By BOB GARDINIER, Staff writerLast updated: 2:47 p.m., Friday, September 25, 2009

VALLEY FALLS -- Some veterans in this community resorted to some medieval punishment after a village man burned the American flag on a pole in front of the Veterans of Foreign Wars post.

The young man, whose name was not released, was duct taped to the pole by veterans for about six hours last Sunday with a sign around his neck accusing him of being a flag burner.

A picture of the punishment is posted on http://www.facebook.com/VFWFans and the VFW's national Web site http://www.vfw.org.

He was pilloried while the village held its fall youth soccer picnic, which included a long parade of children passing the man tied to the pole.

''He'll never disrespect the flag again, I can tell you that,'' post Commander Nick Normile, a Vietnam War veteran, said today.

Normile said the man came into the post's bar last Friday night on Poplar Avenue for a drink but was turned away because he had no ID.

Angered, the man went outside, lowered the flag which hung for a time in Iraq, and set it on fire with a cigarette lighter.

Upset with the destruction, Normile and other post members went to find the man and came across him Sunday.

They gave him some options.

''Let's just say we gave him three options and he took number three,'' Normile said. ''I would rather not say what the first two were.''

A spokesman for the national VFW organization did not return a call for comment.

The flag will be properly disposed of during a ceremony in the near future, Normile said.

http://www.timesunion.com/AspS...Sfq6U

[Mr1der]

if he didn't do this in front of the VFW, I wouldn't have much issue with the burning of the flag...protesting is a right protected by our first 10.

But being a complete wanker...that's another story.

this really should be in the politics sub forum however as it'll turn political like WHAM!

[VRoy]

Coming from a prior military man, he got what was coming to him. I know we wouldn't have been so nice, a good a** whipping would have done just as good. but i am sure that was one of the 3 options.

[Papi Chulo]

it's just a flag

/troll

[s0m3th1ngAZ]

That is still assault and a slew of other charges... no matter what the guy burned. That doesn't mean I condone the behavior but come on...one of the founding principles of this nation was a right to a jury.
Modified by ScorchedNX2K at 5:54 PM 9/25/2009

[MinisterofDOOM]

Moved to politics as that's where the discussion is bound to go.

[NY94J30]

it's just a flag

/troll

I think you've missed the point. That it was a flag is irrelevant - and obviously confuses the issue. The point is, this guy took it upon himself to destroy someone else's property (which happened to be an American flag), and was caught and dealt with accordingly, in what I believe to be a fair manner. He was given a choice, and he and the aggrieved party reached an amicable settlement. I think that's justice.

[s0m3th1ngAZ]

That is still assault and a slew of other charges... no matter what the guy burned.

[S133P3R]

coming from a former flag defacer- the guy did it all wrong. the specific flag he burned was more than just a symbol of a country it was a symbol of hope, strength, and rememberance of sacrifices made to protect his right to even burn flags. if your going to destroy something to make a statement -at least know exactly what your destroying &how significant it is.

[dusred]

coming from a former flag defacer-

I hope you burn in hell.

[WDRacing]

That is still assault and a slew of other charges... no matter what the guy burned.

So lets have them brought up on charges!!! Lets waste thousands of tax dollars so this type of behavior can go unchecked. That's an awesome idea...

No type of flag burning is OK in my book unless it's the type done when a flag is being destroyed because it is worn out. I don't care what you think you're protesting, it's a slap in the face to thousands that have died giving you the right to protest in the first place. If you have to resort to flag burning, then you're simply not creative enough and don't understand the value that so many of us place on our Nations flag.

I'm all for vigilante justice and the "eye for an eye" mentality. We could use a good bit more IMHO. You don't wanna burn a flag within site of me I can tell you that. Maybe I won't react immediately...maybe I'll just gag and bag you some night when you aren't expecting it. Take you some place where others won't be able to hear you cry out. Some place where I can take my time explaining to you why it is that you're being tortured.

People never take into account the consequences for their actions.

[AZhitman]

That is still assault and a slew of other charges... no matter what the guy burned.

If someone is stealing from you, would you lay hands on them?

There are NATURAL CONSEQUENCES to one's actions, and they're not all within the purview of the law. Nor should they be.

Let's continue...

You're walking through a restaurant with your wife, and some drunk tard grabs her a$$. Do you tuck your tail and pretend you didn't see it? Or do you drop a chump where he stands?

..............

In the flag instance, the supposed "aggrieved" party (guy who got pilloried) is more than welcome to utilize the courts to seek recompense for his "injuries", so what's the problem?

HOWEVER, he agreed to be pilloried, so he's got no grievance.

Case dismissed.

[Bootstrap]

If someone is stealing from you, would you lay hands on them?

There are NATURAL CONSEQUENCES to one's actions, and they're not all within the purview of the law. Nor should they be.

I couldn't agree more, however, it's up to the person responding to the action to decide how he wishes to respond...However, burning a flag infront of veterans or even ex-military, that's just a ****ing douche move, what kind of jack*** would do that.While the actions taken against the flag burner may have been harsh, I personally can't help but feel it was justified .

[srellim234]

The following should be required reading in every classroom in the country.

http://www.senate.gov/referenc...3.pdf

Anyone who defaces the flag, which includes burning for political or protest reasons, should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

[AZhitman]

Steve, that's what I like about you.

Just when I think I've got you pegged or know what you're gonna respond, you throw me off.

[srellim234]

Part of what throws you off is that I'm relatively conservative, especially on economics, but a little liberal socially.

The problem is that the Republicans are no longer economically conservative and have no sense of social responsibility whatsoever. The Democrats place their personal power above proclaimed social responsibility and have no sense of reality when it comes to economics.

As for the flag issue, I have always believed that the flag, as a symbol of our country, deserves the utmost respect. It doesn't matter how yo feel about the current administration; it represents something much larger with more history and tradition behind it. As an athlete I stood on the top rung of the podium in a foreign country and had them raise the American Flag while playing the national anthem of our country. It moved me to tears realizing exactly what both my performance and that flag repesented. It represents all of the millions of us from all political and economic views.

[AZhitman]

As am I.

Fiscal conservative, social moderate (leaning more left as I get older), with a strong conservative slant (for my OWN personal behavior and values, which I understand are mine and can't be forced on others).

Yelling "fire" in a crowded theater is not protected free speech. Burning a flag should be similarly unprotected.

Ever nottice, even the most vehement anti-immigration protesters in the American Southwest never burn the Mexican flag?

Basic decency... Getcha some.

[VRoy]

Basic decency... Getcha some.

that about sums it up

[HashiriyaS14]

I don't feel like there should be "flag laws".

That said, I think anyone who burns/defaces/disrespects a flag is an awful American.

I don't think we should be able to jail them for it, but that doesn't mean I don't think they're a scumbag.

It's a slippery slope, so my line in the sand is:

"If it doesn't infringe on anyone else's freedoms, no matter WHAT is is, you should be legally allowed to do it".

Thus, I think you should be allowed to shoot heroin, worship Satan, burn flags, gamble away your savings, and buy liquor at 3am on a Sunday.

You shouldn't be able to steal, kill, molest kids, or punch people in the face.

Very clear, very clean, no ambiguity. I think that anyone who burns flags or shoots heroin is a horrible person, and I reserve MY right to tell them that, but I shouldn't be able to stop them.

If you want the right to carry a gun and the right to be the master of your own property, you can't tell people (no matter how crazy) "But...not in your case" when it comes to their rights. Suck it up and play the game.

[AZhitman]

That flag is someone's property.

Also, there are laws governing speech designed to incite violence, and this behavior is likely somewhat relevant.

[HashiriyaS14]

That flag is someone's property.

Also, there are laws governing speech designed to incite violence, and this behavior is likely somewhat relevant.

I was unaware that it wasn't someone burning their own flag. That, of course, is destruction of private property. Book 'em.

And fair point on your second comment.

[AZhitman]

We've become SO litigious (sp?) as a society that we've lost track of natural consequences, because overzealous pantywaist attorneys have PROTECTED everyone from the consequences of their actions.

There was a time when, if a kid tore up Ms. Mobley's rosebushes, Ms. Mobley could whack him with a broom and then tell his mom ad dad about it in church on Sunday... Junior would get his head smacked afterwards for good measure.

The modern version? Kid tears up the rosebushes. Ms. Mobley gets angry, comes outside with a broom, kid pushes her off the porch and runs crying to mommy and daddy and tells them the old lady tried to kill him.

Mommy's already banging the personal injury attorney anyway, who files criminal complaints against the old lady, who broke her hip in the fall off the porch and dies in the hospital of pneumonia before the case goes to trial.

Her estate settles and Junior gets a new 3-series for his 16th birthday, but he's already committed several other crimes, because unchecked misbehavior leads to more misbehavior.

It's time to take back responsibility for our beliefs, our property, and our actions.

The government is not your mommy, and contrary to what they're teaching in schools, it does NOT exist to "take care" of its citizens.

[HashiriyaS14]

^^While I'm not sure I follow how this relates to personal liberty, it is 100% correct.

Unfortunately, I'm not optimistic. Everything will become increasingly dependent on the letter of the law and there will be an ever-increasing tendency to game the system to one's own advantage at the expense of society.

All you can do is exercise responsibility in your own actions, teach it to your kids, and hope your neighbor does the same. You can't legislate it and you can't elect it.

[srellim234]

The government is not your mommy, and contrary to what they're teaching in schools, it does NOT exist to "take care" of its citizens.

AND...

it does NOT exist to "take care" of its corporations and political buddies.

[AZhitman]

Correct.

Trespasses against the law and violations of ethics must be dealt with harshly.

Being successful (even if it means positioning oneself in such a manner as to be more likely to succeed) is not a crime, provided it's done ethically and legally.

Hashie, I was intending to relate that back to the concept of those "natural consequences" that used to carry more weight than legal ramifications. I failed at bringing it back full-circle.

[diamondj30]

should have brang his own to burn,lol.Just a east indian trading company flag basically anyway.if thye were good veterans thier flag should be upsidedown calling sos cauyse we been jacked.lol..No wondr it has blood red strip's.well go midevil on yo azz,lol..What a great distraction and phoney natiolism.my take.We are so into torture in all way's,lol.%hey proboly march thier children down the street with underwear on thier kids head if he piss's his pant's.lol.

interesting stuff...http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/ar ... ead/120981
Modified by diamondj30 at 1:48 PM 10/2/2009

[srellim234]

If you are lighting it in a public place, it is still against the laws with regard to arson and/or burning things in general public areas. Even if we bought into the notion that "It's just a piece of cloth," you cannot just burn it anywhere you feel like. Even if you burn it on the Capitol steps, you should be arrested for it.

I am one who still subscribes to the notion that the flg is a very important symbol and should be treated with respect.

[dusred]

,lol.lol,lol,lol.% piss's pant's.lol.

Seriously dude, go die in a fire.

[diamondj30]

lol.your so warm and fuzzzzzzzzzzzzy