First drive w/ SR tonight!

[hokiruu]

Yes, I know this is not very exciting news for most of you. I, on the other hand couldn't be happier. I have been waiting six months for this, and tonight I had the pleasure of taking my car on its maiden voyage with the SR. I still have to get my alternator working, but I managed to charge it up for a quick 20 minute run and have to say its a blast to drive. Cant even wait to raise boost to 10psi now! It died twoce on the way home, but i dragged my boy along to share the boost rush (and force into a jump start mission) so it was fun. Whoa, its funny knowing that this is just the beginning. Thanks alot to everyone on this board who has helped me get this far. Especially you Marcus if you read this.

[240Kuminachu]

cool man glad to hear it, I know how you fell, just got mine going last week.

[AznRide]

I had a blast driving mine too, gj.

[RobDET]

Sweet mang... get that alternator working and go beat up on some KA's

[hokiruu]

I need help wiring up the alternator. Where is that grey harness plug supposed to go? I dont have anywhere to plug it in. Also gotta wait for my new tach to come next week, then I'll be trolling for victims and good competition.

[solaris22]

might wanna check the SR20 FSM, very useful info in there. Might help you out. it's here if you don't have it http://www.zeroyon.com in the tech section.

[starfireS14]

Morpheus:"Welcome to the real world"

Congrats on the swap Im at stock boost still will be going up soon as i do fuel and ecu upgrade.

[Checkered-Member]

Sweet mang... get that alternator working and go beat up on some KA's

hmm....not KAT's

hehe....pound for pound the SR is a better engine, but PSI for PSI the tq of the KA will own any SR:pface

[Onizuka]

No SR bashin in the SR section

[drifter_for_life06]

congrats man, cant wait to get my SR runnin either

[RobDET]

The KA is quicker when you do both Ghetto but the SR is a stronger motor if you bolt up the good stuff...

[hokiruu]

I've been running it every day since Friday when i solved the alternator problem. I think I'm going to kill my turbo really soon unless i solve the following issues ASAP:a) i have been experiencing compressor surge. My BOV doesn;t seem to be workingb) overboost and boost spikes at high rpm. i am currently trying to solve this by tuning the gain settings on the Blitz Dual SBC. It recommends a gain setting of 20 for the SR, but that may be marginally correct for a stock SR. With my setup, it's barely getting better turned all the way down to 12.

[RobDET]

You sure you have the BOV hooked up to a place that sees vacuum when the throttle body is closed?

[hokiruu]

i am pretty sure, as it is one of the vacuum lines that go behind the TB. i have tried adjustting the spring far out and back in with the only result being hiow soon i can hear compressor surge and hoe much. I'll check it again. it only releases air properly under very high boost.

When I am accelerating and watch the gauge, it seems to pull the correct .48 bar. But With the boost controller set at zero and the gain turned all the way down to 12, i am still hitting between .7 and .8 bar max boost. I am thinking that either I have the racing type BOV with too hard a spring too open or what ROB said. I'll check it at lunch today.

At this rate (a weekend of driving moderate to pretty hard on the engine) with boost spikes up to 12psi on the t28 w/ 370's and compressor surge, how much damage am I causing?

[240Kuminachu]

Maybee try using on of the two vacume lines on the front of the throttles body, right above the throttle body.

[hokiruu]

I have the s14 SR, there are no vac. lines above the TB, only 4 below it. I think I'll switch which ones I cap and plumb the line to.

[RobDET]

OAH!! Compressor surge doesn't hurt BB Turbos for real!...

It does cause more lag between shifts tho

[hokiruu]

Are you kidding? I'm pretty sure bearings dont like imact upon them either. However, after setting the gain back to zero on the boost controller and setting warning and limiter at .6 bar, it seems to be holding .5 bar steadily. The BOV has also mysteriously started working properly. Now the only problem is that I can't use the other three boost setting channels without raising the limiter for all 4. I am wondering if I have the pressure source to the solenoid hooked up properly. i have the IN hose running off the supplied nipple on the intercooler hotpipe in the before the core. or is this just intended for external w/g use? The blitz bc instructions show it going somewhere on the turbine itself, and the OUT hose going into the wastegate. several people told me to use the intercooler pipe, which makes sense as it will give a more accurate pressure reading than anywhere else.

[xyster]

On the subject of compressor surge...I'm a field service technician for a company that makes industrial blower/compressors. Surge is potentially damaging to all kinds of blowers. It puts incredible stress on the impeller(s), shaft, and especially bearings. All our machines use ball bearings, even the super high-speed models, and surge is/can be deadly to all of them. In fact, it's the biggest killer of our machines in the field.

[GTS4-R]

hmm....not KAT's

hehe....pound for pound the SR is a better engine, but PSI for PSI the tq of the KA will own any SR:pface

Yea until u blow that KA-T to smitherines because it can't handle **** for boost.

Anywayz back to the topic at hand- We all remember our 1st drive in our SR maiden voyages....the thrill of the boost kickin in and the sound of the turbo spooling just sending chills up my spine.......wanting to hit the gas all the time.......Blowing pressure off at riced out hondas, knowing YOU own the road. O jez, i remember, and its givin me chills. it's like your car is re-born into somekind of sleeping MONSTER!......Congrats to you on your partial project completion. ENJOYnext summer It'll be all new again for me (T3/T4 cams etc) twice the power and a loudass turbo......can't wait for this d*mn SNOW to clear out!

[Phax]

Yea until u blow that KA-T to smitherines because it can't handle **** for boost.

Anywayz back to the topic at hand-

:ylsuper

[iNfamous240]

the ka-t is as good as a sr. It all depends on how you fix it up and how much money you spend on it. IMO, a ka is a better angine for boost. You guys might disagree but THATS MY opinion. And from what i heard there are a lot more sr engines blowing up do to boost then ka-t's so maybe you should get your facts straight before you go off and post something thats not true. And agian im not saying that the sr engine is a bad engine, I dont have anything agianst them.

[Phax]

... It all depends on how you fix it up and how much money you spend on it. IMO, a ka is a better angine for boost. You guys might disagree but THATS MY opinion. And from what i heard there are a lot more sr engines blowing up do to boost then ka-t's so maybe you should get your facts straight before you go off and post something thats not true.

If I might ask, where do you get your facts from?

Do you base the fact that the KA block is cast iron, while the SR block is aluminum. And by being cast iron, that some how better suits the block to stand boost? I'm curious, because I've heard that argument used many a time.

If that's what you're basing your KA-T bias on, then please allow me to retort.

Have you disassembled both a KA and an SR? Have you truly taken the time to look at the intricies of the blocks?

If you have, maybe you've noticed all of the webbing built into the SR block around the cylinders, that isn't there on the KA.

I'm not even going to go into the head, other than to say the SR revs to 8000+ with ease, while most KA guys aren't looking to spin more than 7000 out of their motors.

Anyone who knows anything about a built motor will tell you that the KA can take boost. Nathan is running 21psi. There are numerous people making ~400hp. Even more in the 300s. I think that you'll find, by and far, they're nearly all drag racers. They might have some freak accident where a hose flies off, and the boost skyrockets through the roof, overspinning the turbo and grenading the motor... it's not likely though.

A turbo motor is going to blow up on a race track, at sustained high RPMs. I doubt that you'll find anyone willing to subject a KA powerplant to a road race environment. The motor simply isn't engineered to SUSTAIN boost. It can handle it, in huge chunks though.

I'll take an SR powerplant over the KA for the above stated reason. I want to road race one day. Sure, it's cool to be able to eat Porsche's and the like off of the line. It's a whole different world entirely to hang alongside them for an hour or two.

I've seen wrecked SR's. They are all due to bad tuning. There are too many guys who get their hands on one, slap on a boost controller, FMIC, intake and exhaust, then fry their pistons because the stock fuel system can't cool them down quickly enough. The SR is a significantly more popular setup, therefore more people do it, therefore fewer people do thorough research like KA owners do, and because of that, people like you are able to come onto a board like this, and say "SR's blow up all over the place." No sh it?

For a factory stock bottom end, it's really hard to come close to the SR20DET (2JZ comes to mind though). You'll find that people who "build" their KA-T bottom ends, are only running about 350-400hp. That's about what a well maintained, STOCK, SR20DET bottom end will hold.

If you're willing to consider that SR20DET bottom ends can be built, then you'd realize for about $8000 you can have a 2.2L stroker motor that will happily handle 600-700hp at 8000+ RPM with the appropriate headwork.

Just to add some flames to the fire In the bench racing world, or even the real world if I ever get my hands on such a motor... I'll put a built 2.2L SR20DET against any 2.4L KA-T down the 1320. I bet the higher revs will overcome the 0.2L displacement disadvantage.

[Nathan]

Nathan is running 21psi.

Not yet Phax It's what I PLAN to run as a higher boost setting. I don't want to be counting my eggs until they hatch so right now I'll say that I'm running 0psi on a KA-T in pieces InFamous240, remember your place...laude the KA all you want in the KA and KAT forums, but the SR guys don't care to hear it anymore, the discussion has happened enough times before.

[wdsonny]

I hope I found the right spot. Just finished installing redtop SR20DET into a S14 chassis. Only problem is the engine wiring harness. Can someone tell what plugs go where, there seems to be more plugs than places to plug them into. Did the swap of the two connectors that run behind the battery, fuel injectors, 3 plugs on the front of the engine, power steering, coils, maf sensor, no a/c in the car so not using any of those. What else would need to be plugged in, in order to light the car up. ECU is mounted and hooked up.

[Nathan]

wdsonny, why don't you try starting a new thread in this SR forum? Your in one of the threads right now, not the forum Also, it's possible it's been discussed before so try running a search at the top right hand side of the screen for something like "SR wiring S14 swap".

Edit: welcome to NICO!!

[wdsonny]

Well, I did search, I hate starting new topics for subjects that have most likely been covered. I was just asking hoping one of you have done the swap and could point out which connectors are needed and which are not. Thanks anyway.

[SloMoe]

Not trying to be a jerk, but just a few questions on a couple of your statements.

I'm not even going to go into the head, other than to say the SR revs to 8000+ with ease, while most KA guys aren't looking to spin more than 7000 out of their motors.

Doesnt the KA have a better head design than the SR? I thought the KA had direct cam-on-bucket design whereas the SR's cam activates the valves via a rocker-arm assembly whichs has more valvetrain mass. I always thought it was the stroke of the KA that killed its redline. Please correct me if im wrong.

Quote »A turbo motor is going to blow up on a race track, at sustained high RPMs. I doubt that you'll find anyone willing to subject a KA powerplant to a road race environment. The motor simply isn't engineered to SUSTAIN boost. It can handle it, in huge chunks though.[/quote]

How is the SR engineered to sustain boost better than the KA? I would think that heat would be the biggest enemy in determining the longevity of a turbochaged motor. With adequate cooling and proper tuning I would think that they would both handle boost relatively well for extended periods, assuming both were well maintained.

Quote »Just to add some flames to the fire In the bench racing world, or even the real world if I ever get my hands on such a motor... I'll put a built 2.2L SR20DET against any 2.4L KA-T down the 1320. I bet the higher revs will overcome the 0.2L displacement disadvantage. [/quote]

Im not trying to start a fire.

[Phax]

Not trying to be a jerk, but just a few questions on a couple of your statements.

Discussion is good..

Quote »Doesnt the KA have a better head design than the SR? I thought the KA had direct cam-on-bucket design whereas the SR's cam activates the valves via a rocker-arm assembly whichs has more valvetrain mass. I always thought it was the stroke of the KA that killed its redline. Please correct me if im wrong.[/quote]It's the stroke that kills the redline on the KA. From what I've been able to deduce, mostly based on driving, I'd say that even a mildly built SR valvetrain will hold steady to ~8000RPM. That's with the rocker-arm setup. Then there are lash killer kits, which allow even higher RPMs on the head... but at that point I think you need to have a balanced bottom end.

As for cam-on-bucket verse rocker-arm assemblies, I think that the rocker-arm assembly offers a wider range of tunability when it comes to adjusting cam grinds and lash pad settings. I could be VERY wrong there though.

Quote »How is the SR engineered to sustain boost better than the KA? I would think that heat would be the biggest enemy in determining the longevity of a turbochaged motor. With adequate cooling and proper tuning I would think that they would both handle boost relatively well for extended periods, assuming both were well maintained.[/quote]You make a good point with regards to engine longevity being dependent on being well maintained. Although I haven't seen any flow bench numbers for SR or KA heads, simple visual inspection shows that the SR head will flow more air. Again, as I said, I haven't seen any numbers. I've just looked at both, checked out the port sizes, combustion chamber desgins, and what not.

[Onizuka]

oh man, i wish i had payed attention to this thread, or else i would have deleted all this KAT crap.

Go praise the KAboom in your corner of nico.