Finding myself in the same place after almost 2 years

[rsiwicki]

well...just when I joined NICO almost 2 years ago I had a lot to learn about the car I had already been driving for the past 5 years (owned the Q for over 7 years now). NICO was very helpful in teaching this newbie all the ins & outs of the Q and what some basic terminologies were around the car shops. Now I find myself in the exact same place with my 69 vette learning all sorts of things over again and doing a ton of searches reading old posts just like I did when I first joined NICO. I did not really think I would find myself up late at night again night after night trying to piece the puzzles together. Right now I am trying to decide between a T-56 vs. Richmond 6 speed transmission and select the appropriate transmission ratios (richmond has many) that would balance both driveability and performance. It is not as easy as I had thought it would be just sticking in any 6 speed transmission. There is a lot of work balancing fun & practical $hit from engine cruising torque curves, cam ranges, rearend ratio, redline, etc. to get the combo I desire.

Guess what I am trying to say is that NICO has taught me well how to research and come to appreciate why the engineers built the Q the way they did trying to balance luxury and performance. I am trying to do this with my vette and have not found it to be easy.

[nuQ]

I know exactly what you mean. I thought I had above average knowledge of cars until I found NICO. Opened a whole new world of automotive smarts,,,not just with the Q, but also with tires, oil, electrical systems, parts, etc. I just picked up an 87 BMW 325is, and the whole process is starting over with me too,,,,,learning all the specifics to all things German!!!! All the crap you heard about German electrical gremlins IS TRUE!!!!!

[Rex]

Rob - let me talk to my Dad and see if he or his buddy in Colunbus, GA has any input. My Dad is a GM guy from WAY back, his buddies ran a couple nationally known (well at least on the east coast) cars in the 60's and 70's. And the one owns a 'vette speciality body/repair shop in Columbus. He restores mid-60's vettes to number matching perfection as a side business/hobby.

I'll talk to my Dad this weekend.

[jamesmost]

Rob call me and i will put u in touch w/ my friend w/ the trans shophe dos alot of classics and muscle

[elwesso]

Just as they say, theres no free lunch..... I probably wont get another car that required my attention like the Q for a while, simply because ive gone so far with this itwould take a LOT of work to do it all over again with something else.

[maxnix]

[SLIGHT HIJACK] Hey Rob, so you have any live contacts at OZ Racing? If so, please email me as yours is hidden[/SLIGHT HIJACK]

I had a friend that had the 1968 convertible with 350/350 and four speed.

The unique thing about that car is the wipers were hidden behind a vacuum operated panel. For its day, it was pretty good. My heart would still be with the 67 fastback.

[RobertsnewQ]

RSwicki - Buy my book if you want to know more than you ever thought possible about manual transmissions:http://www.amazon.com/gp/produ...lance

The Richmond is a good box but an old, crusty design. The T-56 is a more modern design but it was designed as a truck transmission and has the manners to prove it.

I'd go with the T-56 although the Richmond 'box is a good unit. Plus T-56 parts are no further than your local Dodge or Ford dealer, unlike the Richmond.

Both will be plenty strong enough. If you already have a very low rear gear (3.55 plus) I'd go with the T56 gearing (od 5th/6th) but if you've got economy gears maybe the Richmond would be better for overall gearing.

[5seryan]

Thread Jack: Holy shot Robert, you wrote a book. Madness!

[RobertsnewQ]

Yep - two years in the making.

Don't know that I would do it again but I think it's on-topic for the thread?

[elwesso]

Cool stuff Robert.....

[RobertsnewQ]

Not too many customers in this crowd, though

So Rswicki - Keep us posted on your Corvette. Those things are cool in a neanderthal brutish kind of way. I love it.

[rsiwicki]

I don't mind thread jacking on a thread like this where I am not trying to get a specific thing discussed. Very nice book indeed Robert.

I am going with the ROD because I can customize the gears almost anyway I need them. The T-56 with the gear set that goes in the vette is what I really want but it will not work for my vette...only the F-body camero T-56 will bolt up and the gearing is not what I want. it seems the T-56 is more refined but lacks the flexibility of the ROD. I don't need a 0.5 overdrive in the T-56 as that would put me at 2,000rpms at 80mph and according to the transmission & motor guys I need to cruise at just above 2,000 rpm...around 2,500 since the cam is from 2,000~6,000 so a single overdrive of 0.62 will do the trick allowing me to cruise at 80mph comfortably. There is some wierd thing going on with the engine and torque that is beyond me that if your cruising rpm is not just above the beginning of the power band that things get a little screwy.btw...the vette T-56 has a final drive of 0.62 which is why it would have worked perfect.

Now the next quest is matching up the gear ratios to the power band of the motor spacing them evenly.

Here is what I got in calcs so far with the first line being the ratios and the second line being my max mph at 6,000rpm redline with a 4.11 rearend and 27" tires.....

T-56 Ratio=2.66 ~ 1.78 ~ 1.30 ~ 1.00 ~ 0.74 ~ 0.50T-56 MPH = 44 ~~ 66 ~~ 90 ~~ 117 ~~ 159 ~~ 235

ROD Ratio=3.01 ~ 1.88 ~ 1.46 ~ 1.18 ~ 1.00 ~ 0.62ROD MPH = 39 ~~ 62 ~~ 80 ~~ 100 ~~ 117 ~~ 189

M-20 Ratio=2.52 ~ 1.88 ~ 1.47 ~ 1.00M-20 MPH = 47 ~~ 62 ~~ 80 ~~ 117

I think I can really maximize my 1/4 times with the ROD choosing the gearing such that I end the 1/4 in 3rd right at about 100mph give or take a few mph. I need to play with the figures some more but I am narrowing down my options what I think is optimal and then I will see on Saturday what the mechanic has worked up and then we decide which way to go.

Also one other item why I don't like the T-56 is that 2nd & 3rd gear is taller than my stock 4-speed gears and I don't want to lose acceleration...I want to go faster and faster so the ROD will keep me where I am at or slightly improve on my acceleration stats.

The shop installs both T-56 and ROD but told me the ROD was much easier due to shifter location and a couple other items so that and customizing gears will work nicely (I hope).

[RobertsnewQ]

That's a good point about the ROD install - the T-56 shifter location would be a pain in the *ss.

Also good point about going through the traps in third - you really want to avoid an extra shift if you can manage it.

Have you looked at the TKO? If you can do without a 6th gear (and I bet you can) it's a better trans, and it has a wide selection of shifter locations.

Also, I thought you could buy the Camaro T-56 brand new with the lower 6th. - PN 1386-000-011??

Or are you going for used? If that's the case I see the dilemma.

[rsiwicki]

I am buying brand new. I have thought about the TKO600 but did not like the gear selection. For some reason a lot of the trannys have an equal or taller 2nd & 3rd gear than what I desire and currently have in my old 4 speed and I am very hungry to maximize acceleration.

I will be buying a new transmission...no way am I going to go through the troubles of guaging a used transmission. The car runs perfect right now and I don't want to do anything that would decrease its driveability so all new parts are being ordered along with a light weight flywheel as they say the flywheel will help the sync's a lot making things a little smoother and faster. We shall see in early January when I get my car back.

I am working on the scenarios...but caution myself on a shorter first gear much above 3.01 with the 4.11 rearend.

[RobertsnewQ]

Flywheel won't make a difference to the synchros - it's disconnected from the input shaft when you shift. What WILL help is finding the lightest clutch disc you can get. Stay away from sintered iron or ceramic, and use the smallest one you can get away with.

I agree on the first gear - with the low rear ratio you can get too low quickly.

Most modern transmissions are set up for a wide ratio spread and a low final drive, that's why 2nd and 3rd aren't going to be close to what you have now.

I used to have an excel spreadsheet where I put all the info in so I could play with numbers in real time. Do you have something similar?

Well, enouch non-infiniti talk. Good luck with your project!

[rsiwicki]

robert.....if you have 10 minutes I would glady like to talk transmission stuff with ya quickly. I promise it will be quick. My cell is 305-790-1475.

I am going back and forth. I just found out I can get the vette T-56 close ratio version with a shifter that fits so now I am back to square one again and have a couple of questions that I would like an independent opinion on.

[maxnix]

Not too many customers in this crowd, though

So Rswicki - Keep us posted on your Corvette. Those things are cool in a neanderthal brutish kind of way. I love it.

Oh, I don't know condsidering all the inquiries about what mates up to a VH45DE!

You are right! Corvettes are the highest tech two passenger Conestoga wagons ever made! Probably the best OEM kit car, for sure!

Remember it took Tod and Buzz about 3 years to get from Chicago to LA on Route 66 in their 'Vettes.
Modified by maxnix at 5:49 AM 11/11/2005

[FarFetched]

Just as they say, theres no free lunch..... I probably wont get another car that required my attention like the Q for a while, simply because ive gone so far with this itwould take a LOT of work to do it all over again with something else.

Truer words have never been spoken!I don't think I would edure on a quest of building another JEEP like I had for almost 8 years!It is regardless if I had the money to do it, it just I am over it for a while!I am still drooling when I see a well (not for street show/freak parade)built Off-Road rig. It is life style which I have enjoyed in full back a year or two!Cheers!

[FarFetched]

When you swith to 4.11 rear end, think of POSI in there!With so much torque to the wheels, you'll be fish-tailing on every corner. Something like AUBURN POSI or similar!Cheers!