FINALLY... AN ANSWER TO WTF IS GOING ON.

[USMCgetsome]

ok soo i crept through the archives last night and saw projectrb240s post and did some checking so it led me to thinking it was my turbo. Nope.. checked and it's fine. So next i kept lookin and found on the SDU FORUM about bad coil packs. Somehow, they leak and cause grey marks on the braces and rocker covers. Soo i pull all the packs and soo far this is what i've found

1: has no carbon on it what so ever, and i do hear the fuel injector clicking .6ohm on coil pack

2: has no carbon on it either, fuel injector clicking .6ohm on coil pack

3: has carbon build up, hear and feel injector clicking .6ohm on coil pack

4: has carbon build up, hear injector clicking .6ohm on coil pack

5: has carbon build up, hear injector clicking .6ohm on coil pack

6: hsa carbon build up, hear injector clicking .6ohm on coil pack

checked spark plugs and they are NGK BKR6E 11they read 4.53Kohm all 6all regapped to .7mm, before they were close to 1mm or higher

Tomorrow i'm actually going to have someone crank and i'm going to install the coil pack with spark plug and ground to the chasis and watch for spark. Also, I just had the injectors cleaned as well as the fuel rail soo i know for a fact that they are working.

Man i'm soo close to a working 6cylinder instead of a 4cylinder. Hope this helps anyone else with this problem. I'd post up pics but everyone always bit-hes about the pic size. If anyone wants to see what i'm talking about just ask for the pics and i'll be glad to either post or email. look at the braces on the r/h side and look at the black/grey marks.

[USMCgetsome]

i just smelled the 1st two spark plugs and they smell like fuel soo there went the injector issue.
Modified by KUILLIN_DRIFTER at 9:18 PM 3/16/2005

[Slo_240sx]

1 and 2 aren't firing. See if youre getting a signal from the ecu to fire the coils. Its not that 3-6 are running rich its the fact that 1 and 2 isn't firing.

[goofynick6]

1 and 2 aren't firing. See if youre getting a signal from the ecu to fire the coils. Its not that 3-6 are running rich its the fact that 1 and 2 isn't firing.

Yep, those first 2 plugs aren't getting spark; I had this problem on another car..the plug would stay looking new and always be wet with fuel.

There are individual wires coming from the ecu for each set of cylinders (1,2), (2,3), etc I believe, so check those out.

Nick

[USMCgetsome]

heh, believe it or not i tried it when i got my setup installed and finally started. So, i checked for pulse from the ecu to the igniter and coil pack harness. Hell man they even sparked when i put it to the block. Tomorrow i'll check it all over again and let everyone know.

[Slo_240sx]

whoa wait a min.... Your coils are sparking but plugs aren't firing? Sounds like the plugs are grounding out before they reach the electrode. They new plugs first.

Also the coils need to have a STRONG spark for it to fire properly. Try switching the coils from 1 and 2 to put them on 3 and 4. Run it for a while and pull 1 and 2 plugs out and see if they are firing. They should show some color. If they still aren't firing its wiring or the ECU. Also run a compression test on all the cylinders and post the results. Remember no brown means no fire.

[goofynick6]

Check the wires on the mail coilpack mounted at the back of the valve covers that runs the coilpacks, maybe a bad wire on it or bad ground. There should be a ground that goes to the last coilpack to the rear of the engine...

[USMCgetsome]

brand new plugs they probably don't even have 20miles on them. Yeah there is a ground wire at the end of the loom and i put it to chasis ground. Tomorrow i'll check everything out and see what's going on. My diagnosis with a lil thinking.

I've swapped igniter chips and ecus and even cas with known good parts and they still didn't fire. funny to say it boys but i got a 4 banger instead of a 6 right now. it's actually pretty funny that this thing runs on 4 cylinders right now.

[Slo_240sx]

Well get this puppy running right! Faith! Do what I posted earlier and we'll see from there.

-Alex

[Eikon]

Do you still want me to send you the coolant temp sensor? or do you think you have this thing figure out.. Either way is fine with me.

Have you pulled the little rubber boot of the bottom of the coil pack?

The RB20 coils have a little metal tip attached to a spring that contacts with the top of the spark plug. Just pull hard and yank off the plastic thing. Then look at the contact point. I took a nail file and gently cleaned all the nasty carbon deposits off the tips. It def. ran better afterwards...

Think about it.. if there is a lot of carbon on the tip, the electic signal wouldn't transmit very well through that.

You have 25 but I am sure they are similar. My coils rubber things didn't have any dirt or mess on them.. yours look filthy from that pic. I would bet you should pull those off and clean the conections.

[USMCgetsome]

hell yeah i still want it(coolant temp sensor). LOL. And i look at the little spring on all the coil packs and they are immaculate.

[Carl H]

on plugs one and 2 it looks like they arnt getting fuel, which could be a stuck injector.i know on a buddy's rb20 one of the injector pintles were stuck and was causing the injector not to fire even tho you could hear it clicking.i would guess that they are stuck and need to be freed some how.try loading the rail with straight seafoam and rapping on the rail next to the injector with something to perhaps free it.

[Slo_240sx]

Read post 2, he has fuel. He just doesn't have spark. Switch the coils around and tell us what happens.

-Alex

[BoostFab]

gray carbon build up on the coil pack bracket doesn't mean much, moistures can be trap in there. that's a common thing in japan....

have you tried to swap the coil packs from #1 and #2 to other running cylinders? try that and see if #1 and #2 will run with the other coil-packs.

if not, try back-tracing on the coil-pack harness, while the motor is running, check for voltage between the igniter and the coil-packs #1 & #2.

double check the plugs that goes into the igniter, sometimes there are residue on there that may prevents a clean signal to the coil-packs.

post back the result and let me know.

[mmatl16]

holy sh1t. i had this same problem with my rb20. the second cylinder didnt fire for months. i couldnt figure it out for the life of me. coil packs, spark plugs, injector's, burnt valve's, i went throught them all. i finally found out that.....my ignitor was bad.

get a new ignitor and see what happens. im pretty confident that a new ignitor is all u need.

[USMCgetsome]

i'm not going to work on this issued untill about 4pm but yesterday i was testing out another nico member's ecu/ic/cas and i had the same results. And before that i tried another ecu and had this same problem. Funny cause the codes i got from this ecu is 34/54 which is bad knock/auto transmission.

I'm gonna check for ecu signal to 1 and 2 and also check the loom. It has to be wiring or coil pack because everything else has been changed. So, check back later on tonight fellas i'll have the results by then. Thank you guys for all of your concerns and assistance. I was just in the process of getting rid of my setup and swapping to a damn sr20det before i found this. Ahhh yes there is still hope.

[BoostFab]

test what i post above then try swap out the igniter with a working one and see.

[USMCgetsome]

ok this is what i've done soo far. I checked voltage at ecu .2-.4vdc then checked for continuity at loom. From igniter to coil pack harness. 1 - 6 plugs check good. Has good ground 0.00ohm stable, 12vdc, pulse signal from ecu. Then i put the coil packs that weren't firing to the chasis and watched for spark. They both sparked. Keep in mind these are new plugs and i regapped them to .07mm soo i just moved them to spots 3 and 4 on the block. Keep in mind when i'm giving spots i really mean starting from begining cylinder to last cylinder and not by actual cylinder number. But currently i am recharging my battery. So i'm going to go back out later and fire it up and let it run for a few mins and see if they turn brown.

[USMCgetsome]

moved the 2 that didn't have any combustions to 3 AND 4 position. then

ok checked 1 - 4 coil packs

1 - 4

connector notch up

E = ground

+ = 13.69vdc and has pulse signal(GROUND)

- = .081vdc - .074vdc at crank and idle (ecu signal)- = .340vdc at above 2500rpm

now i read in my manual that the ecu voltage is .2 - .4 vdc 1vdc at above 2500rpm

they all have the same signals and voltages and grounds. Checked the ecu voltage and even swapped ecu's and had same signals and voltages. Also, swapped igniter chips and still same. Check continuity in wiring from ecu to ic to coil pack. Works fine.

Even when i moved 2 known good coil packs from spots 3 - 4 to spots 1 and 2 and uncilpped the coil pack plugs it did not effect the idle at all it was stable. Then i unplugged spot 3 coil pack plug and it starts to miss firebadly.

ecu pin 1 cyl 1.081pin 2 cyl 5.081pin 3 cyl 3.081pin 11 cyl 6.081pin 12 cyl 2.081pin 13 cyl 4.081

Soo, i'm thinking coil packs still

[Slo_240sx]

ok, move 1 and 2 plugs and coils to 3 and 4 again. Run it, but this time pull the plugs to see if they are burning. No color and alot of fuel means bad coils, if they are firing then its your wiring or a signal source.

[USMCgetsome]

i'm gonna try it again tomorrow. How many times will the spark plug fire when cranking. Will it be long sparks or short multiple sparks. Also, gonna pull the fuel rail off tomorrow and cranks and see if the injectors are actually firing and spraying fuel.

[Slo_240sx]

Does it stay running? let it run for a few mins, let it cool than pull em out. If they are colors its wiring related and if they aren't burning than its the coil packs.

-Alex

[BoostFab]

Even when i moved 2 known good coil packs from spots 3 - 4 to spots 1 and 2 and uncilpped the coil pack plugs it did not effect the idle at all it was stable. Then i unplugged spot 3 coil pack plug and it starts to miss firebadly.

why are you unplug all three coil packs? the engine will not idle correctly. have all the coilpacks plugged in and start up the motor, then pull the spark plugs and see if they're firing.

btw! who did your wiring?

[USMCgetsome]

wiring!

A small shop in Jacksonville, NC called RPM. If you ever get close to that shop i would suggest stay away. When i got my car back they did a real crappy job.

[USMCgetsome]

ok soo i'm pretty sure my coil packs and plugs are good because i pulled them and watched them spark. So i still didn't see any brown and i ended up just getting new plugs which are

NGK BKR6E-11

and drove around for awhile and went to a few places to show off my 4 cylinder rb25det. Believe it or not people were actually impressed with what i had. I had to laugh because it's nothing close to what most of you guys have. Anyhow, i'm gonna pull the first two plugs and see if anything has changed. I'm actually thinking it might be the stupid injectors again. Tomorrow i'm gonna pull the fuel rail and see if the 1st two injectors on the rail are spraying. If they are then i'm at loss for words. i'll be posting up tomorrow. But either way it's been a great journey with this swap and i greatly appreciate all the help that all you guys have provided and hopefully i wont pull this engine and sell it.

[USMCgetsome]

OK.... wtf. So now i pulled the fuel rail and watched for fuel coming out of the damn injectors and guess what they freaking spray. I checked injectors spot 1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and they all shoot a mist of fuel. So i'm thinking timing cause the coil packs fire and injectors spray.

Any ideas are welcome for this one!!! Timing??

[USMCgetsome]

by the way i put in 2 brand new spark plugs and drove it around for maybe 30miles and then i opened it up today (sunday at noon) and they still look brand new. So i'm gonna get 2 new coil packs just to make sure and check the crank pulley again and rotate it. I'd do a compression check but i don't have the kit to do it. I'll post up later.

[USMCgetsome]

ok the only thing that i can see is since i used some washers that aren't the same size that spaces the rail from the block it has a little more space and that part of the rail sits higher than the other half of the rail from forward to rear. These are the spacers i'm talking about. white ones are the ones i tried to replace for the black. They are slightly larger than the others.

[USMCgetsome]

ok soo the fix is use flat washers to make that black washer and worked better. But i can still hear a massive air leak at spot 1 injector. Making a sucking noise soo i know there's a leak. I got a better response from the engine today. Since i fixed these small problems.

My ecu for some reason likes to lose timing for some reason. It bounces around a lil bit and i can see it while using my timing light. It goes from 15bdtc and up to 20btdc every once in a while.

and did a compression test and found spot 1 cylinder 140lbsspot 2 cylinder 140lbs

leak down test was stable at 140lbs no leaks.

It's getting better.

[goofynick6]

140 seems low for 9:1 compression, what are the others?

The fuel rail has to be tight and no air leaks around the injectors or it'll run poorly.

Just take the coilpacks from 5 and 6 and put them on the 1 and 2 which aren't firing, if that doesn't change anything, then swap injectors, if that doesn't, then keep trying other things.

Nick