finally a dyno sheet, don't expect much.

[PandaS14]

wooo ****ing hoo.

[SSS]

Do you have a dyno run before the itb's went on?

[AmoebAssassin]

Yeah, but look at your torque curve now... much flatter and not as dramatic a falloff after 5500rpm. Also, the area under your torque curve is probably larger than stock, meaning your engine is able to do more work by going from idle to redline once.

[PandaS14]

I don't have a before dyno, but it is much faster now than it was before, and that is for sure. I'm guessing around 130ish at the wheels. but you never know.

Yeah, the hp and tq curves are much better than a stock ka, but i was hoping for more power! I guess that quest is never over tho...

[SSS]

Your a/f ratios look quite good, did you add much timing?

[skatanic28]

damn, i definately thought you'd be making quite a bit more than that.

[PandaS14]

yeah, the AFR is pretty good. It's a little rich up top to keep combustion and cylinder temps down a little bit, but that's it.

As for timing, I was running 40 degrees of advance from about 4k up. We tried 42 and I lost power. Retarded it until we found what was making the most power. Ended up being 36. That's actually what ended up making the power over the base tune, was pulling timing out of the map.

[InsanityInc]

ditch your 232/232 cams. Guaranteed those are the problem. I mean, when they go from 240/248 to 232/232 and don't lose any power or anything, it's obvious that the cams were meant to give the engine expandability.

[240marcuSX]

that seems pretty good to me man, atock srs only make like 165 at the wheels and they run mid 14's.

mind sharing what your other mods are?

[PandaS14]

I've got 91 cams in there right now. they helped a lot, but I really need some bigger ones.

Other mods:

Headerhigh flow cat3" exhaustlightweight flywheel

That's it I think.

[AmoebAssassin]

Some high comp pistons would go with your mods nicely...look into putting the KA-E pistons into the KA-DE block...it raises your coimpression and is cheaper than blingin forged pistons.

[InsanityInc]

EDIT: blah

[InsanityInc]

I've got 91 cams in there right now. they helped a lot, but I really need some bigger ones.

Other mods:

Headerhigh flow cat3" exhaustlightweight flywheel

That's it I think.

I'm guessing there's gotta be something funny with your engine. I've seen people make more than that without ITBs and with those mods.

[InsanityInc]

I got to thinking about it and that graph looks really odd, because it doesn't even seem like you lost any low end at all.

[SSS]

I've got 91 cams in there right now. they helped a lot, but I really need some bigger ones.

You really need cams with minimum duration around 268 deg for intake, and 272 for exhaust.

[PandaS14]

I know, I lost no low end power. Everyone with ITB's has been saying they felt like they picked up torque through the whole rpm band, and my dyno is pointing to them being somewhat correct. Every engine is different, as are the setups, but I sure didn't lose any torque, but I sure gained some.

yeah I know the cams I need, I just don't have the $$. I'm still contemplating between drop in jwt cams or going all out with oversized shimless underbuckets, huge lift/duration cams etc.... However, I think my wallet will be making the decision for me...

[InsanityInc]

I know, I lost no low end power. Everyone with ITB's has been saying they felt like they picked up torque through the whole rpm band, and my dyno is pointing to them being somewhat correct. Every engine is different, as are the setups, but I sure didn't lose any torque, but I sure gained some.

yeah I know the cams I need, I just don't have the $$. I'm still contemplating between drop in jwt cams or going all out with oversized shimless underbuckets, huge lift/duration cams etc.... However, I think my wallet will be making the decision for me...

Yeah, I dunno. Something seems fishy with the ITB thing. It seems like it should have made quite a large difference (even if not for the better!) but it didn't....it's odd.

[PandaS14]

its not that odd if you think about it. the stock cams can only let x amount of air past the valves. If the stock intake mani is capable of flowing x amount of air or a little more, you won't see any peak hp gain. Hence why my peak numbers aren't above what most ka's without itb's are at. But my torque curve is much improved, as is my top end (lack of significant faloff). So that shows you where the stock manifold can't quite flow enough air for the stock cams.

[InsanityInc]

But the part that's odd is that 240/248 cams should be capable of better than that in general. Also, how would your power peak not go up when changing to 240/248 from 232/232... There's something that I'm missing here. The only thing I can figure is that ITBs somehow behave radically different from a traditional intake manifold.

[Marquinho]

Congratulation on your results - I don't think there is anything wrong with the dyno results at all. ITBs are not supposed to give you huge gains at all; at least not by themselves. One really needs to look into at the entire package to extract the most out of each component. ITBs will enable a lot more air to fill the cylinder, but only as much as the cam profile and intake port will allow. You can add throat ratio and valves sizes into the equation, but I don’t want to complicate things. For the ITBs to perform at their best, they need to be complemented with the right cam profile and intake porting to match the desired flow characteristics.

I think this result is rather encouraging and proves that the stock manifold/TB are indeed a limiting factor. Look closely at the dyno and see how peak power is at 6000RPM, which is great for a KA engine compared to stock configuration.

Just as a side note, head porting is probably the most critical aspect to make the engine breathe properly and therefore make HP. Most people seem to look at cams alone as the solution and this is not true. BTW, I’m not talking about a $400 port job. The real thing will run you upwards of $1000.

Cheers,Marco

[skatanic28]

its not that odd if you think about it. the stock cams can only let x amount of air past the valves. If the stock intake mani is capable of flowing x amount of air or a little more, you won't see any peak hp gain. Hence why my peak numbers aren't above what most ka's without itb's are at. But my torque curve is much improved, as is my top end (lack of significant faloff). So that shows you where the stock manifold can't quite flow enough air for the stock cams.

maybe the stock manifold isnt as much of a hindrance as some people made it out to be? my torque curve improved a good amount with a more aggressive ignition map, so that is probably playing a part as well. its good to see you up and running, whats next?

[Nismo_Freak]

Everything will come into play.

You are running a racing induction setup on a pretty much stock engine. Time to focus on the headwork and get that ball rolling.

I think you will have excellent results once you get everything in tune.

[Thee 240sx Owner]

I agree with NISMOFREAK on that.... it is a racing setup but no internal work is done... its like ricers... alot of stuff outside the car but nothing done inside to make it fast... you pretty much have flow of air and exhaust taken care of... now its time to start ripping the block apart and doing internal upgrades starting with pistons first...

[SSS]

Panda, how long did your intake runners end up being?

[InsanityInc]

I agree with NISMOFREAK on that.... it is a racing setup but no internal work is done... its like ricers... alot of stuff outside the car but nothing done inside to make it fast... you pretty much have flow of air and exhaust taken care of... now its time to start ripping the block apart and doing internal upgrades starting with pistons first...

Ehm. He's trying to flow air at higher RPMs, pistons arent going to change that to any meaningful degree. Replacing his cams should do it theoretically, but I still think something is missing here. Even if we assume the intake manifold was perfectly tuned for the s13 cams, why is there no difference in the car's power when they went to s14 cams with basically the same manifold? Something really isn't adding up about the engine.

[PandaS14]

Head work is definately first. Then pistons.

As for the S14 having no power loss with smaller duration cams, I've heard it's because the ecu had a more agressive tune. That's just hearsay tho, so I don't know it to be true.

[InsanityInc]

Then maybe the guy who was talking about a different timing map improving his high end was onto something. Or maybe the stock coil is legitimately inadequate for high RPM operation. I'd be curious if you got any results from futzing with your ignition system. A problem being in the timing map would also explain the supposed 30whp that they got from testing the AEM EMS.

[j-z]

what are your numbers? i cant see them on the graph.

[PandaS14]

152 hp and tq.

[sean8564]

for N/A that is not bad at all