filter + muffler = faster?

[spec-v5150]

I wouldnt recommend having a muffler shop install a header. They wil try to rape you. At least here. They told me it was a 8hr job @ 55 an hour. Sometimes they have taken longer. Hell that is more than the header

[Yorb]

Thanks Slo. =) You're right of course, about what I'm looking for.

Although: I'm not under illusions that I/H/E will be any sort of drastic improvement. The 240SX is already a zippy car.

As for handling and brakes...not to get too far off-topic here, but that's the other avenue I'm considering, and might pursue either before or after this I/H/E thing. I'd rather not lose clearance, but I was thinking about strut bars and brakes (mine squeak anyway, and no it's not fluid).

The thing is, when I do something, I try to do it well. So I'd rather put $500 into quality I/E, even if it doesn't make a difference, than distributing the same amount of money on a bunch of other stuff. I don't know if that makes sense or not, but. =)

I think at this point I'm going to find a good muffler shop, take it to them, and ask them what they think.

EDIT: An eight-hour job?! Isn't it just like, unbolt, remove, put on, bolt?

[cwc2k1]

My advice (and it is just that, so if you don't like it that's fine but thoroughly consider it before deciding) is this....give up on spending alot of money on I/H/E. Buy an ebay muffler with a silencer so it's not horribly loud and get a cone filter for $6 like the other guy. The reason I say this is because if you spend a somewhat large amount of money on an intake and exhaust you will likely not notice an increase in power and if you do then it won't be much. What you will achieve is better sound, and a feeling of accomplishment like you've done something good (which is true, the feeling of accomplishment is great). This feeling can and will likely become an addiction, and before too long you'll be wanting something bigger and better. YOU WILL WANT MORE!!! I say spend the $50 on cheap I/E, enjoy the slightly different/better but hopefully not horribly loud sound it will produce, and start saving. The minute after you get an i/h/e you'll be wanting more. SO........what you should do is save. Save. Save. Save. In the midst of all this saving and enjoying, read....about other upgrades which for the same money (maybe a little less or more) that you're talking about spending on I/H/E now will show you a much better increase in whatever field you're wanting to upgrade. You're already going about this the right way, just keep going. I'm just trying to help you catch a likely screw up before it happens becuase I cannot see anyone enjoying a intake, exhaust, and muffler and not craving more shortly afterwards. Like I said, get the cheap stuff, save for a bit while your motor works its self to its inevitable doom (and being a jap motor, it still might take a while so feel free to help it along :-) ) and then build your motor and turbo it which you will now know how to do from all your reading..... my .02

[APEXi240]

who ever was saying that any muffler shop can make an exaust as good as a pre-fabricated one.....



the difforence between the welds a low payed muffler man makes and the welds a precision factory machine makes are worlds apart. R & D DOES make a difforence, they design them to not only perform better but SOUND better as well.

If your satisfed with a sub-par exaust system on your car, thats your bag, i would much rather save up and have something that wont rust off in 6 months...

Buh, my exhaust system is mandrel bent, stainless steel all around, with a simple muffler. Sounds like any other exhaust system, looks and performs the same, for a total cost of 225 dollars. I've had mine on for almost a year and half, no rust, absolutly nothing wrong. R&D doesn't mean crap on a basically stock car.

My exhaust sounds no worse than any other exhaust I have heard on any other S13/S14.

[sohc90adel]

quote:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Originally posted by J-Spec Tuner who ever was saying that any muffler shop can make an exaust as good as a pre-fabricated one.....



the difforence between the welds a low payed muffler man makes and the welds a precision factory machine makes are worlds apart. R & D DOES make a difforence, they design them to not only perform better but SOUND better as well.

If your satisfed with a sub-par exaust system on your car, thats your bag, i would much rather save up and have something that wont rust off in 6 months... --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

6 Months? sometimes i think people go into denial or just hate themselves for spending so much money for 10-20 horsepower. I guarantee my exhaust will last more than 5 years,and it rains here almost everyday. When you go to shops and they tell you all these wonderful things about there 700 exhausts it does not mean that they are right...

lbrowne quote:Not to hijack this thread but, sohc90adel I was wondering how you found that pacesetter header.

They get bashed quite a bit on this site especially by people who never had one before....how do you find it and how was the install?

The people here at Nico always bash the HEADER but to tell you the truth i had a choice here in PR for both I was actually one of the few people that have seen both right next to each other. (Hotshot and pacesetter)The diffrence in price was insane for a header. of course the hotshot looked better but am i gonna spen an extra 250 for maybe 2 horses? dont think so. the pacesetter actually looked thicker when the tubes joined than the hotshot did. I opted for the normal pacesetter with the black coating. The ceramic coating is nice but i figured wrap can do the trick coating does. People also say the welds are out of wack, thats also bull, i took my header to get installed at a muffler shop they said the welds were fine. they found no leaks and installed the header for 20 bucks, they only problem they had was fitting a pipe that goes to some sort of exhaust pipe. but since they have the tools they just bent it to fit with a little warming took 5 minutes. Muffler shops are in abundance here in puerto rico, i dont know about over there but you can shop around ask for suggestions, people dont bite. i found that shopping around and asking questions helps a lot when you want to do something, it also saves you a lot of money. guys at the muffler shop know a lot about exhaust these guys are putting pipes and mufflers on everything all day for years they even make headers. I trust them cause every time i went to a diffrent muffler shop you can see that they have their own cars that they themselves work on. they know what to do. I ended up getting my header on ebay for like 120 bucks, never been happier with any other purchase.

[SloS13]

I agree with SOHCadel, and in addition, so many of you guys are such brand-name whores. Apexi this, HKS that, Nismo everything else. for $700, you could get a DIY-manifold, downpipe and probably even a used turbo, but some people choose to get a high-priced pipe with a fart-can welded on instead.

[Yorb]

CWC - Thanks, I do know what you mean. It's not like I don't have any money right now, I have a few grand. But I don't want to put that much money into a 10 year old daily driver with a 147,000 mile engine.

I don't like having things done to it that I don't understand, which is why I'm not going for turbo or anything right now. After this thread, I feel like I understand I/H/E, which is why I was feeling more confident. Shocks and struts are simple, so I may go that route too (I'm actually planning on getting strut bars).

The problem I have with eBay mufflers and filters is that sure, they make it sound better, and might even give me a couple extra horses if I get wider piping, but I will be kicking myself for going that much money in the wrong direction.

I have a friend with an Injen and Flowmaster on his S13, and he says he hates the Flowmaster, though it sounds aggressive.

Adel - Ah, if only we all lived in Puerto Rico and could get our header installed for $20. ;D

I was reading TurboKA's post again. Can someone (TurboKA, for instance) briefly explain the benefits of the things he talked about? (fuel filter, underdrive pulleys, plug wires, flywheel, driveshaft).

Thanks. =)

[SloS13]

I was reading TurboKA's post again. Can someone (TurboKA, for instance) briefly explain the benefits of the things he talked about? (fuel filter, underdrive pulleys, plug wires, flywheel, driveshaft).

Thanks. =)

Fuel filter - filter made for a bigger engine mean better flow. Dont worry about it unless you got mods

Underdrive Pulleys - 'underpower' your alternator, power steering and AC. Unless you have a big stereo system, this is an okay mod to do. It will free up some parasitic drag and give you better throttle response and a couple hp all through the power band

plug wires...this is debatable. if your plug wires are ready to trash, get some new ones and you might feel a difference

spark plugs - always a good idea. I usually go cheap here and get some NGK's but whatever floats your boat

flywheel - much better throttle response, less rotational mass. Engine will drop revs faster

driveshaft - quicker throttle response, less rotational mass, and less weight on the car as a whole

[sohc90adel]

i suggest you dont no the pulley or flywheel thing if you have a system, thats just gonna give bigger problems, yorb i got the install for 20 bucks because i went the whole exhaust route on the same day. i bought the piping, cat, resonator,and muffler the same day. they usually give you a good price. just ask them, it doesnt hurt. then what they say you go to another place and start haggling. patience is a money saver!

plug wires and spark plugs dont do anything but make the car more smooth. i got magnacore wires 8.5mm, i got them because i am going msd ignition box and nitrous, im just trying to set myself up for nitrous.

fuel filter is not necessary at all, turbo setups maybe.

driveshaft would be nice but you should do other things first. inatake and exhaust is always the first thing people do. its not a bad idea. its sets things up for future mods

[Yorb]

Thank you Slo and Adel! Since my system comes before my performance, I'll steer clear of the flywheel and pulley for now.

Plugs and wires generally strike me as something that's not going to really have any effect unless your stock ones are all crapped up.

I'm glad to hear this, though I will keep the non-I/H/E mods in mind as well, and next time my fuel filter goes out, maybe I'll look into getting a 300ZX replacement.

What's a resonator, by the way? Is that something to supplement low-end mufflers?

[droptopsilvia]

If your worried about your system sucking the life out of your battery with underdrives....dont worry, theres no problem get a capacitor, it will solve all of your power to sytem problems, had it in my teggy. never had a problem!

Intake and exhaust are usually the first step to making your car fast....They may not add *holyfukinshiit* power at first but as you add more mods thier power increase becomes exponential.

heres the equation...more air+more fuel= more HP...you cant bring in more air unless you're getting it out.thats why I/E dont work as well unless they are in conjunction.

so get your I/E then find something that will give you more fuel to dump in with this extra air you're bringing in. i.e FPR, fuel pump....

this will give you a nice increase.

after that worry about parasitic drag b/c then every little bit you free up will be felt.

and dont forget about a nice ignition box, to burn all of that extra fuel you're dumping, That is when i noticed the most gain playing with fuel pressure.

happy tuning, a proper start will give you a proper finish.I/E>fuel>ignition then go back to a port/polish(more air) then back to fuel.BTW: MONEY IS NO OBJECT!!!!! especially when it comes to something you drive around every day....I bought one of those cheap pacesetter exhausts once, I wont do it again...I also bought springs off e-bay, bad idea...So one day I was driving(very hard) and the perch on those cheezy springs snapped off and my exaust was ripped off(it was a little rusty after 6months). needless to say I couldn't get around until my new(expensive and nice) parts came in.

[SloS13]

sorry, im going to have to disagree. I think an ignition would be a waste of $. People are running 10psi with the stock ignition. Waste of money on an N/A car.

With the TINY amount of extra air that I/H/E will burn, you dont need an ignition nor FPR or fuel pump. Where are you getting this info?

Edit: not to call you out, but your SN is droptopsilvia. What all do you have done to your car?

[droptopsilvia]

well as of right now its a freshproject. and I'm fixing everything thats broken first! I have a highflow cat (bad emissions), Apex'i N1 suspension(blown stock struts), Brembro rotors.(warped stock rotors) by the way what air do you burn? I burn fuel. that TINY amount of air flow that you gain works a whole lot better when you add a TINY amount of fuel.

An ignition gives you a more complete burn, therefore your risk of detonation is less in a turbo car, in a NA car you add a brighter spark to ignite your extra fuel that you're dumping to go along with the more oxygen you're compressing, you get more power.

this info comes from experience buddy. When I added my ignition to my integra not only did everything run smoother but I felt a power gain. and was able to bump up my fuel pressure higher which once again made my car pull harder and faster.

I think its great that people are running 10psi with a stock ignition... but 10psi isn't by any means a lot of boost. I dont think you'll find a real drag car running with a stock ignition. boosted or not.

and since when does upgrading fuel components not help you.we all know what happens if you dont get enough fuel.these are proper precautions to take for reliability sake, but you will get an increase in power.

I know what I'm talking about and this info has been collaborated through years of modding cars, by trial and error

maybe i'll follow your instructions and boost the **** out of my car without upgrading fuel or ignition....but since you said it was ok will you buy my new engine?

[sohc90adel]

almost a year with my pacesetters. exhaust and all and still no rust and still no leaks, im also getting an ignition box but for nitrous purposes. I once had a box in my chevy truck and really didnt do a damn thing.

Who has a system without a cap? I have a bank and im still not going to get a pulley or flywheel.

the whole fuel thing is getting into turbo territory and problems. I doubt this is what Yorb wants.

yorb a resonator is a muffler looking thing that goes before the muffler, its to make the noise lower. the 240sx came stock with one but is very restrictive. the muffler shops carry straight through desin resonators now.

[SloS13]

by the way what air do you burn? I burn fuel. that TINY amount of air flow that you gain works a whole lot better when you add a TINY amount of fuel.

I burn a lot of air, and a lot of fuel.

I think its great that people are running 10psi with a stock ignition... but 10psi isn't by any means a lot of boost. I dont think you'll find a real drag car running with a stock ignition. boosted or not.

For a 9.5:1 compression motor, i consider 10psi pretty substancial. Since when are we talking about drag cars?!? Drag cars have a lot of stuff street cars don't. Not sure I see your point here.

maybe i'll follow your instructions and boost the **** out of my car without upgrading fuel or ignition....but since you said it was ok will you buy my new engine?

Dude...who is even talking about this guy boosting his car. I never INSTRUCTED anything. I was just pointing out a fact. I was using the 10psi as an example. I was saying that if the stock ignition is good enough for 10psi of boost, then its good enough for any amount of NA mods... Also, how would NOT upgrading your ignition in an FI application cause any kind of mechanical failure? Not enough fuel, sure it'd blow up in a heartbeat, but an insufficient ignition system isnt going to.

[Onizuka]

Buh, my exhaust system is mandrel bent, stainless steel all around, with a simple muffler. Sounds like any other exhaust system, looks and performs the same, for a total cost of 225 dollars. I've had mine on for almost a year and half, no rust, absolutly nothing wrong. R&D doesn't mean crap on a basically stock car.

My exhaust sounds no worse than any other exhaust I have heard on any other S13/S14.

Where are your dyno sheets proving you got equal performance results? How much time did you spend on sound analysis? R & D (which costs money) means alot for both stock and modified cars for performance and sound, wether you like it or not.

I'm not saying that muffler shop jobs are bad, it sounds like you got a very good deal on a quality system. BUT, stating that local shop jobs are as good as or better (in quality, performance and sound) than a system tested and tuned for a specific car that was produced in a factory by machines with working tolerences unacheivable by human hands, is false.

Can i go into a local muffler shop and say "hello, i would like a full titanium exaust with ultra precision welds, perfect fitment, and a factory guarentee..... oh yeah and on top of that, i would like you to put together 6 or 7 varriations and test to see which one provides the best perfomance gains, sound quality, and sound suppresion. Yeah and i need that for less than $500"?

[SloS13]

Where are your dyno sheets proving you got equal performance results? How much time did you spend on sound analysis? R & D (which costs money) means alot for both stock and modified cars for performance and sound, wether you like it or not.

He doesnt have any. Some people arent THAT picky. If you want to pay $300-$400 more for an exhaust with dyno proven results, have at it. A bigger exhaust, as long as there arent any sharp bends is going to give you more power up top regardless. Laser-welded missle-guided computer welds will yield an exhaust with slightly less backpressure because the air will have a cleaner exitway.

[quote=" J-Spec Tuner Can i go into a local muffler shop and say "hello, i would like a full titanium exaust with ultra precision welds, perfect fitment, and a factory guarentee..... oh yeah and on top of that, i would like you to put together 6 or 7 varriations and test to see which one provides the best perfomance gains, sound quality, and sound suppresion. Yeah and i need that for less than $500"? [/quote]

Yes, you can. That sounds like one of those Progressive Insurance commercials. HAHA. The answer is obviously NO, but to a lot of us, thats not worth the extra money. If my custom exhaust breaks in half while I own it, i'll die from crapping a brick, so a warranty wouldnt matter.

[Yorb]

Cool it with the flames guys. Everyone has opinions. Just accept the fact that some people have stupider opinions than yours.

And... I don't have a capacitor on my system. Because I have extremely high quality equipment and no performance mods. I have one 300W sub amp and I can shake the glass in your mom's bedroom window.

[Guffed]

"Sorry, I guess the correct term is header? even though there are four pipes, it's not plural? I thought it might be like pants"

-What? You do know a header is a singular part, and 4 cylinders can only have 1 header...6 cylinders have 2 headers. And I don't mean to be so wierd about it, like i said, i just bugs me, thats all. Its just like saying "i want some headers for my civic, or 240sx, and so on.

"correction: In-line 4 A V4 would have headers"

-when did I say V4?.....

[TurboKA37]

ok seems we've been a bit active. ive been bussy with school, work, and installing suspension parts but i finally go some time for the forums. as for the pulleys i wouldnt worry about ur system draining the battery as long as you go with a brand name such as Unorthadox. Unorthadox has such minimal differences in the size of pulleys its not noticable, they focus on the weight of the pulleys. i kno ill eventually be running atleast a lightened crank pulley some time soon. also, i agree spark plugs and spark plug wires will have a very small effect on performance but i was just listing things that can be bought for cheap that add up to noticable differences. as for running stock ignition on 10 psi... nope. forget who it was but he just put on a NSport kit and he couldnt even run 7 psi due to his engine starting to misfire due to the ignition. once he got a msd coil he was running perfect. but thats besides the point, u dont need that for low hp NA i was just talking about the small things. for the flywheel, the flywheel will have absolutley no effect on the battery or wether or not u have a system or not. the flywheel is just lighter so less hp is taken away by unnecessary drivetrain weight. although i wouldnt do the flywheel until u need a new clutch, so u can get it done while everything is opened up down there. aluminum driveshaft once again takes away weight from the drivetrain and frees up more hp. but dont think i disagree with getting exhaust and intake im just saying if u want the maximum hp increase for the least amount of money then i dont think i/h/e is the best route. i'd say do a little more research through the forums and write-ups so u can really get a feel for what different effects different upgrades have and then ask yourself "what do i want most?" louder exhaust? the most performance for the dollar even if other people cant notice it? a little bit of both? i can tell u right now that ive been researching on my S14 for the past 5 months atleast, and now that i know more about my car my opinions on what to upgrade first have greatly changed. ultimatley if you know all ur options and you really know what you want in your car, then the decision one what to buy will be much clearer and easier for you to make.

[TurboKA37]

wow that was a pretty long post of mine

[sohc90adel]

I agree with turboka37 all mods will help in the hp department, its just a matter of what you want to do, some people buy into the hype of name brand products with hefty prices and some people belive a tube is a tube. you have to respect that. i just feel that if im not taking a car to a show why bling bling you know. what it all comes down to is you either do heavy engine work, turbo, or nitrous. everything else is just baby steps!

[Yorb]

Guffed - You do know pants are one piece, right?

TurboKA - It is a long post, but it's informative, thanks. =) I agree about researching before buying; far too many people run out and buy a fart can as soon as they get their car. I've had my 240SX for about a year and a half now, picking up info here and there (but not actively researching very much). So far all my mods have been electrical (audio, security, gauges, lighting).

And if I was to ask myself that question right now, the answer would probably be a little bit of both. I just think I/H/E seems like a good foundation, and I might as well buy it now while I'm living at home and have some extra cash.

[droptopsilvia]

I agree....all mods work together. but I still will defend an ignition system, but without any other mods it wont do much at all. just like any other mod.but your i/h/e will all work in conjunction and give you a nice base

[Hellion240sx]

or you can just keep saving. thats what im doin now. 5h!t you live at home take advantage of it man. sr20 maybe or ka-t. what do you want in terms of going faster?

[TurboKA37]

also there is no reason i mentioned the intake last in my first post, i just went through all the exhaust first. i didnt mean to make it seem more hp comes from the exhaust than intake upgrades

[stealthj]

i have a suggestion

flowmaster muffler for like 50 bux,,, piping however big u want it form muffler shop, mandrel bent... and slap it on....

intake, custom from home depot... i have a friend who relocated his batery to the trunk, then cut a hole in the metal and went down to form his intake on the same side as where the tube comes out from

short ram cold air intake--- dont forget the KNN filter

[sohc90adel]

well yorb, let us know what it will be because this thread has been on for a while.

[Yorb]

I think I have all the info I need, thanks. =) You can unsubscribe (or just stop posting, I'll let you know when I get it put on).

Hellion - College and stuff comes before a car on my priority list, so I'm not going to run out and spend $2000 on a new engine right now. I have considered it though, yes. =) Maybe when this one dies.

Oh, and for reference, currently I'm thinking name brand intake (AEM or Injen), mid-grade exhaust (Magnaflow, Megan, or something similar), and mandrel bent piping with a high-flow cat. I'm going to hold off on the header until I research some more. This all may change after I talk to the muffler guys, who knows.

[Hellion240sx]

yeah i have school as a priority too, buuuut juuust in case (you know for your maybe ;D.yeah magnaflow sounds great!!! i have it on my car just to let you know. i'm saving up just in case it dies out on me i can just do it without thinking. so imma save up till i have about 6-8 g's.