Few Questions, Who Knows the Answers?

[mattblancarte]

I must beg to differ on this one, its not the same thing at all. The 3/5 Clause was not evil, it was a necessary function of a well thought out republic system of government.

I was personally looking at it from a modern standpoint when I said sick and misguided. You're right in saying that slaves had no voting rights to begin with at the time, which really means the clause recognizes them as zero parts human/citizen.

These proportioning measures are necessary and well within acceptable morality.

Well, when you look at what the 3/5 Compromise was for after the Constitution was ratified, it was to increase the voting power of the south. It was not to help "even" things out... The south actually dominated congress for a good amount of time prior to the Civil War because of the slave population.

The slaves were being used by both the government and the slave owning states as mere bargaining chips. First, the south didn't want to count the slaves for the Articles of Confederation. They would have had to pay taxes on their "wealth."

Then during the Constitutional Convention, the south decided that they DID want to count slaves as 3/5 human because they could gain more seats in congress.

"Acceptable morality" is, of course, a matter of perspective. In the late 18th century, sure... It was clearly okay by enough people's standards.

[srellim234]

In a way it's not too far from where we are today. Illegal immigrants do not have the right to vote (they shouldn't), they are part of the workforce (although not forced), and the states that harbor more illegals have disproportionately more representation in Congress because they are counted when allocating seats in the House of Representatives. That congressional representation of illegals in the House is one of the more serious undiscussed reasons for dealing with the illegal immigrants facing us today. The Census needs to be asking citizenship questions and congressional representation should be based on American citizens, not human bodies present.

[IBCoupe]

Well, maybe the census should seek information regarding both citizenship and body count. Part of the purpose of the census (its primary purpose?) is to assist in the allocation of funds to public programs as necessary.

Whether or not you believe that illegal immigrants deserve to have funds allocated for them is one thing, but honestly, if a city decides that it needs to provide 1 cop for every 100 people, does it really want to be trying to make that 1 cop for every 100 citizens?

[srellim234]

I didn't suggest not counting them. We should not be providing congressional representation to them.

[IBCoupe]

Along the same lines, though, might there be a State interest in accounting for them? The difference between them and slaves is that they're not being held here against their will, and the local government doesn't want them here - that's pretty important when you're trying to compare them to slaves.

If the State is going to have to employ additional funds, might they prefer to have the additional votes to get them? Aren't you otherwise just tying one hand behind their back and saying, "Get yourself fixed."

[srellim234]

The federal government should not be taking the money in the first place! It costs a lot more money in overhead, handling, waste, etc. for the federal government to touch the money and redirect it than if the money were left locally for the states to deal with the problems. As far back as 35 years ago I was looking at studies that showed that the federal government spent $3 for every $1 it returned to the states. State governments averaged only $1 spent for every $1 returned locally. I have seen nothing in the meantime that indicates the federal government taking the money from locals to give it back to them is any more efficient than if the money was left locally.

If the federal government is either unwilling or unable to deal with the illegal immigration problem, it needs to quit taxing the states as if it is dealing with the problem.

[IBCoupe]

Spending $3 for every $1 returned? Welcome to a world with a national defense, medicare, and social security.