Feeling More Police-Statish to You?

[dickie]

I just read a couple articles that got me thinking where we are headed with law enforcement culpability nowadays.

The first presented a few cases that highlight a disturbing law in some states and even more disturbingly, the way they are interpreted and enforced. It is considered a crime to record audio or video of an on-duty officer under the auspices of existing wiretapping and/or consent to be recorded laws. The article covers incidents from Maryland and Massachusetts, does not make much mention of which other states allow this kind of interpretation of existing laws and seems slightly slanted toward the defendants in each case, but the facts presented speak for themselves.

We have all seen footage of police officers abusing their authority, and often it leads to their reprimand and public scrutiny that I feel is necessary for them to be able to "serve and protect" the public fairly and justly. We all know these a$$ represent a very small percentage of total law enforcement out there, and as a majority I don't feel this causes any great public distrust of the police. So why are they going after people who catch these d!ck so hard? Why are they trying to make it harder for the truth (in the form of evidence) to be obtained and used for our protection? It seems like this type of incident highlights a very scary "we can do whatever we want, the ends justify the means and we're breaking eggs to make the omelet" kind of attitude that I have never really seen on an official level before. Basically, they want it to be their story vs. our story in court or otherwise, and we all know how well that goes in 99.9% of cases. What makes it okay for the government to monitor us without our knowledge, but when we record a police officer doing something they're not supposed to do, it's not only inadmissible for our defense but a felony?

The second comes from Ohio where your perceived speed (according to a "certified" officer's eyes and judgment alone) is admissible evidence in court when you fight a speeding ticket. In one highlighted case, the offender was clocked at 82 in a 60 zone but the "certified" officer said 70mph based on his visual... a clear violation but still allowing that even trained professionals cannot be "accurate to within 3-4 mph" - the stipulation according to the certification requirements. So, here's how your next encounter might go with Ohio police:

Officer: It looked like you were doing 70mph in this 55mph zone. Here's your ticket.

You: I was doing 57 mph according to my speedometer as witnessed by the passengers in my car. The vehicle I was passing was traveling approximately 45mph and so it probably appeared to you that I was speeding when I actually wasn't.

Officer: See you in court.

In Court:

You: Here's my evidence and witness testimony.

Officer: I'm certified b****.

Judge: Pay the fines (opens wallet).

I don't really expect Massachusetts or especially Ohio laws to trickle down to the rest of the country, but with the judges in those states ruling against the public, it kind of sets a dangerous precedent. What do you think?

Articles:

http://gizmodo.com/5553765/are-cameras-the-new-guns

http://jalopnik.com/5553772/court-rulin ... -estimates

[breadbox]

SCary stuff. I hope it gets better and courts stop siding with officers who make insanely awful decisions and abuse their authority.

[Koshin]

LEOs and judges suck. I know a city judge and he is the most crooked mother f-er ever. (Unless you know him, which I do and he gets me out of everything)

If i didnt know him, Id hate him....

I shouldnt complain to badly though, I dont get much hell from the cops....

[dickie]

Normally I side with the law, whatever makes it easier for them to do their jobs... BUT in this case it's not in their best interest to be able to suppress information. If it is taken out of context and casts them in a negative light, they have the right to a trial if there is sufficient evidence of their wrongdoing, just like any of us.

[SeVa-S13]

Had already Fark'd those two articles myself.
It's a damn shame that sh1t's happening in Amurrica.

[Jesda]

Free and open information keeps law enforcement honest, fosters a better relationship between LEOs and the public, and catches bad cops AND litigious criminals. I often dislike the ACLU, but they fight some of the cases that need to be fought.

[dickie]

UPDATE: This happened in my home state. I am suitably pissed off.

http://gizmodo.com/5571246/man-arrested ... o-his-home

Seriously? The cop was doing something he wasn't supposed to, put the guy through the whole ordeal of being arrested and charged with s***, then it's just "hey buddy no harm, no foul!"

[Encryptshun]

I have no idea what you are talking about, sir. The idea that cops may tread slightly over the line between proper conduct and abuse of power, never happens up where I am.

In Chicago.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49kgG0s7lVk[/youtube]

Move along -- nothing to see here.

[breadbox]

I doubt that would have gone down like that in my city. I'm not saying he would have done time. But punching a woman in public has never played out well for the dude regardless of if she deserved it or not in my experience.

But why would the Police defend him if he was so blatantly dumb?

[krash]

My friend who owns an STi actually got a ticket here for "travelling at speeds greater than reasonable", which is basically "I didn't radar him, but he has a fast looking car so he must have been speeding." However, he took it straight to court, pleaded not guilty (he wasn't speeding), and won.

[ADDirishboy]

I have no idea what you are talking about, sir. The idea that cops may tread slightly over the line between proper conduct and abuse of power, never happens up where I am.

In Chicago.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49kgG0s7lVk[/youtube]

Move along -- nothing to see here.

Why the f*** is everyone just standing there? You're in a bar! Grab a bottle of vodka and smash it over that drunk a$$ head!

[es.biggs]

I have the utmost respect for police officers who morally and professionally fulfill their duties.

I think it's appropriate to share a shortened version of one of my teenager-in-highschool nights here...

Me and my buddy were at a party (neither of us were intoxicated) and we had to go get some ice from the gas station. So we hopped in the car and headed out; I rode shotgun. My buddy turned his lights on AS he pulled out of the driveway so he was technically on the road at the time and he technically broke the law. A cop followed us to the gas station, and we pulled in there and he pulled next to us but didn't get out so we were like, okayyyy haha

Anyways we were counting quarters so we could get a few dollars and buy a bag of ice right and the cop jumps out of his car and he's like WHATS IN YOUR HANDS WHATS IN YOUR HANDS to me, so I was scared to death and I dropped the quarters on the floor of the car at my feet. He was thinking I was rolling a joint or soemthing; I said it was just change lol and he was shining his light all over...he said he smelled marijuana on us so we had to get out to be searched and all that good stuff. Keep in mind, we just came from a party...

Anywho, we were getting frisked and he reached his hands in my pants to check around the groin area and I jumped back and was like man (naturally you know? I couldn't really help it I didn't expect it) but he slammed me against his car and cussed at me about resisting blah blah blah I was just thinking to myself whatever...I wasn't about to mouth off to a cop, you never win in that situation.

So the same happened to my buddy right after that, as the officer's partner frisked him. They pushed him against the car and he pushed back; I told him to sit still but he was so stubborn he didn't stop

Him being on the wrestling team in HS (those were the days haha) he sprawled when they tried to take him down, and I was just watching as all hell broke loose from there...once they got on him they put cuffs on him and a backup car arrived then, the guy gets out and asked what happened and my friend is now sitting on the parking lot ground with cuffs on and another cop standing next to him. He was calm and quiet, and he realized he was being unbelievably stupid by resisting like that. This cop that just got here actually looked at him after he talked to the cop and then walked over and kicked him to make him lay down, then he got on him and put his knee on his back and grabbed him by the hair pulling his head up and asked if it felt good, while he pushed all of his weight onto that knee.

At this point, I was like WHAT THE f*** MAN!?!?!? There was no reason for that, and my buddy was just yelling/screaming cuz it hurt so bad. I was furious, but what could I do? I had another cop standing next to me, and I wasn't about to go to jail too. The cop that was already beating up on him then pushed his face onto the ground pretty forcefully and cut his forehead open a little bit. My buddy started calling him a pig and the cop hit him a couple times, and he picked him up by the arm like they do and walked toward his cruiser. When they got to the hood, the cop swung him by one of his arms and slammed him into the hood. Then he grabbed him and slammed him into the trunk, then he opened the back door and threw him in.

I felt horrible, useless. Anyways, that night was pretty bad, I went to pick him up at the jailhouse and got home around 6am. He was all bruised up and cuts were on his head and face and knees. He went to the doctor, had it all documented and took pictures. We got to court a few months later and the lawyer tried to get him out of his charges from the state, but he knew if he wanted to sue them for brutality he would have to hire another lawyer and open a new case and crap and he decided it wasn't worth it.

At that court session though, the police handed over the tape of that night, and the judge showed it before they called me to the witness stand. I couldn't believe my eyes...the tape was rewinded and recorded over. Everything that happened after he was arrested and settled down was completely erased and it went from that point to the next traffic stop the officer did the next day. That was all of the "police brutality" evidence we had anyways, and it was now gone.

Anyways the police officer who took my friend to jail (the cop that beat him up) was called to the stand to tell exactly what happened from the moment he got there until he left. He said he got there and they needed help transporting my friend so they asked him to drive my friend to jail. Then he said he walked the suspect to the car and left, following the orders he was given. He forgot to mention the part where he beat him, the part they re-recorded over on the tape.

Oh well. What can ya do. We were both young and dumb, he was just dumber for thinking he can play games with the cops. That doesn't make it right what they did though.

[sbird1]

"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty."

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."

- Thomas Jefferson

[numbnuts240]

"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty."

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."

- Thomas Jefferson

we, as americans, are not as bad a** as we used to be.

[Encryptshun]

I have no idea what you are talking about, sir. The idea that cops may tread slightly over the line between proper conduct and abuse of power, never happens up where I am.

In Chicago.


Move along -- nothing to see here.

Why the f*** is everyone just standing there? You're in a bar! Grab a bottle of vodka and smash it over that drunk a$$ head!

Striking or physically restraining even an off-duty police officer carries a pretty hefty penalty. So coming to the rescue of a 100-pound bartender being beaten to death by a out-of-control cop could actually get you jail time. Eventually he was subdued by someone who pulled him off her in time to save her life, but she was taken to the hospital in serious condition.

During his trial, Anthony Abbate claimed the beating was SELF DEFENSE because she tried to keep him from coming behind the bar (in reality he was so drunk he lost his balance, fell backward and hit his head).

In a stunning display of justice, he lost the case and the courts threw the book at him: 2 years probation, 130 hours of community service, and required alcohol counciling.

[AppleBonker]

I remember laughing hard at the self-defense claim. Some people...

[sbird1]

"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty."

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."

- Thomas Jefferson

we, as americans, are not as bad a** as we used to be.

Damn shame, that.

[LugNut18]

The second comes from Ohio where your perceived speed (according to a "certified" officer's eyes and judgment alone) is admissible evidence in court when you fight a speeding ticket. In one highlighted case, the offender was clocked at 82 in a 60 zone but the "certified" officer said 70mph based on his visual... a clear violation but still allowing that even trained professionals cannot be "accurate to within 3-4 mph" - the stipulation according to the certification requirements. So, here's how your next encounter might go with Ohio police:

Officer: It looked like you were doing 70mph in this 55mph zone. Here's your ticket.

You: I was doing 57 mph according to my speedometer as witnessed by the passengers in my car. The vehicle I was passing was traveling approximately 45mph and so it probably appeared to you that I was speeding when I actually wasn't.

Officer: See you in court.

In Court:

You: Here's my evidence and witness testimony.

Officer: I'm certified b****.

Judge: Pay the fines (opens wallet).

You should probably know that other states accept an officers estimate of speed as evidence and have done so for a while. It not like it is something new that the courts ruled on. Also, part of becoming a police officer (for most departments, not all) includes speed enforcement training. In order to pass this part of the academy an officer's estimate must be +/- 5mph of the radar verified speed. For most officers, they can get to within +/- 3mph. Is there still a gray area in all this, most definitely. For the officer mentioned, well he can't estimate speed worth crap and should go back to training. As for the other incident,the one in MD highlighted the fact that you can't record audio and video at the same time no matter who you are recording unless you notify the person who you are recording. If the person just used video they would be fine.