Fast Help with clutch bleeding problem!!

[Rays_240]

ok, so for the last couple of weeks my clutchs grabbing point has been changing. It was driving me crazy so I decided to replace both the master and the slave at the same time to try and fix the problem. I assume they were the issue because they were both just cheap autozone specials. I purchased a brand new oem master and nismo slave from fr sport. I bench bleed the master and install it along with the slave. Me and me friend go to bleed it by the pumping it a few times then holding it down while I open the bleeder method. seems to work great becasue no more air is coming out, just fluid. We seal it all up and the clutch has barley any pressure and wont fully disangage the clutch. The slave has some movement but not enough. The pedal is coming all the way back up once pushed in but is very light. since then we have been tyring to bleed this thing for 4 days now. using all diffrent methods. weve drained the whole thing and started over, and we have even used a pump and pushed the fluid back through the slave trying to push the air out the master. Everytime we keep coming back to the same point, light pedal and not disengauging.

What am I missing here? do I need a diffrent master to work with the nismo slave? nothing is leaking so how do I tell if one of these parts are bad?

Ive also had my dampener block removed for years now so thats not the issue.

[badbob2121]

edit: didnt read the last sentence...

[PapaSmurf2k3]

Seeing as how you've removed the damper, I'd be willing to bet your master is out of adjustment.

You'll probably have to remove it and unscrew the fork a few turns from the threaded rod to gain more stroke. Try going like 2 turns and putting it back together.

[Rays_240]

Ive tried adjusting the master cylinder every way I can. You dont have to remove it to turn it though. just loosen the nut and spin the rod.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

How much have you turned it out? Like how much of the rod is left sticking out passed the base of the fork?

[Rays_240]

as first I had it sticking out just so there was alittle freesplay, the way it should normally be. then I tried adjusting it out and eventually all the way out. Ive also tried all the way out and then all the way in.

My friend brough over his fluid evacuator pump and we pumped the fluid in from the slave up to the master. doing this we finnally got a firm pedal. but the only way i could get the clutch to disangage was by adjusting it all the way out. The pedal also keeps flip-floping between firm and completly soft on secound to the other. so something is deff. wrong. does anyone know if I have to shim my clutch pivot ball or run a diff master with this nimo unit?

[PapaSmurf2k3]

Did your fluid turn color, like black? It sounds like you have a bad master or something. Did you adjust your pedal when you adjusted your master?

[Rays_240]

the fluid stayed the same color and didnt turn black. adjusting the pedal and the master is the same thing...

[PapaSmurf2k3]

adjusting the pedal and the master is the same thing...

No its not. You have a bolt and nut on your pedal assembly that acts as a mechanical stop, so you can make full use of the stroke of the master should you decide to increase it... otherwise you really won't have any pedal "free height".

[Rays_240]

Ill take another look at it. but it was fine before, idk why it would need adjusted now. is it possible to over extend the master cylinder rod and mess it up

[PapaSmurf2k3]

Usually it only messes it up if its really really old, like you sort of wear a zone into the bore, and then when you adjust it, you end up hitting a "step" in the bore, which tears an internal seal.

Its very possible you got a crap master. I went through 2 or 3 tokicos before I finally said f*** it and went OEM from Courtesyparts.
Tokico never wanted to warranty the part either, even though it was still in its warranty period. To this day, I refuse to buy tokico products when I have another option.

[LoserCard]

Having two people, hold the clutch down and have the other watching the slave, if it slowly starts to release (or didn't even move), then the master is bad/defective. This is assuming you bled it correctly, but just to be sure, let me write down the proper procedure.

1. Loosen bleeder.
2. Hold down clutch.
3. Tighten bleeder.
4. Release clutch.
5. Check fluid level, add more if necessary.
6. Repeat 1-5 about 3-4 times.

[Rays_240]

doesnt tokico make the oem masters?

Yea thats the way I was bleeding it originally. Im thinking the master must be bad, ill take a look at it tonight

[PapaSmurf2k3]

They might, but suppliers are held to higher standards when making OE replacement stuff compared to when they pump out their own garbage for aftermarket.

[Rays_240]

haha thats very true. I droped my trans today to make sure my clutch and all were ok and not causing a problem. everything seems fine except my trans was leaking in the bell housing and my rear main seal is leaking also. guess its a good think I droped it. but still no luck with the clutch hydrolics

[PapaSmurf2k3]

What's the history? Have you replaced the clutch? If you've gone heavier, you might want to replace the pivot fork bolt while everything is out (along with the rear main seal).

[Rays_240]

Yea I replaced the clutch a few months ago with a comp. stage 2. do you think the nismo pivot is worth it? my throw out bearing is also bad already. whats the best replacement?

[LoserCard]

OEM Clutch pivot ball has been upgraded and is pretty hardcore compared to my brand name aftermarket one but I forgot the name, lol. Same with the throw out bearing, go with OEM.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

My pivot bolt is SPL. My OEM one broke. I'd definitely replace it.
My throwout bearing came with my kit from Centerforce. Its pretty rare you get a crap throwout bearing. Can't go wrong with OE though.

[LoserCard]

That's what I got I think, SPL. Anyways, I got an OEM one from Nissan and they changed the design from this...

]=D
to this (The bottom being stronger construction conical shape) Excuse the pen15 looking shapes for all you dirty minded people.
]>D

I compared the OEM and the SPL and I am like WTF they look exactly the same now. I ended up using the SPL because I would hope that they use better materials considering I paid almost double the price. =P

[PapaSmurf2k3]

Yeah SPL supposedly uses a higher grade steel.
Besides, mine didn't break at the base of the shaft, it broke just behind the head, at the top of the shaft.

Wow this thread got dirty.

[Rays_240]

ok, I have found and corrected the problem. It had nothing to do with my new hydrolics at all. apprently when i put the transmission in back when I did the clutch I accidentally used a ka throw out bearing carrier instead of the sr one. The sr one is the same shape and looks the same, its just about a 1/4 in. longer. Once I put the corrrect one in and got it all back to gether it worked perfect. thanks for all the help guys

[PapaSmurf2k3]

Good deal! Thanks for posting the solution