Fake luxury is "dead"!

[Jesda]

http://www.speedsportlife.com/...world/

[Q45tech]

"Rich Corinthian Swaybars"......................bushings?

Carbon fiber rotors, magnesium dash components, and aluminium suspensions, platnium cats, gold clocks, and now the finest Vodka in our gasoline.

[maxnix]

Yeah, this is really another example of shades of lipstick on a pig. While some subsystems like HVAC, AT, and PS, were improved, the cars themselves were still basically the same old sows with live cast iron solid axles out back (the turbo Cutlass was a nice exception along with the Corvair), most with iron block OHV truck engines.

Mercedes and eventually BMW blew out luxury sedans at the top end, but mainly Toyota and Nissan blew the game wide open with with luxury V8 sedan designs at least as sophistecated as the Germans but built with better quality for less money in 1990.
Modified by maxnix at 8:34 AM 7/15/2008

[MinisterofDOOM]

Yeah, this is really another example of shades of lipstick on a pig. While some subsystems like HVAC, AT, and PS, the cars were still basically the same old sows...

Exactly.And this is the same thing we're seeing now.It's only been a few years since "basics" like power windows weren't standard. These days, you have to search pretty hard to find a new car that has window cranks. So in comparison to the "old days" even the most basic cars today seem posh. But no matter how much leather and wood trim you line it with, an Accord is still and Accord. It's not engineered to do the things real luxury cars are designed to do.

[slybydesignq45t]

That was a nice read. I would have to say that these days there are many types of luxury and now even ultra luxury. We have Sports Luxury, Mid Size and Full Size Luxury. At the end of the day no matter what you do with a Camry it will never be a Luxury Car. 2 door Coupe luxury vehicles and nice, but they don't fit in my prospective in the Lux brand yet, Ultra Lux Car makers are gunning for the Ultra Rich who wants Status and Sports.

[paranoidjack]

Exactly.And this is the same thing we're seeing now.It's only been a few years since "basics" like power windows weren't standard. These days, you have to search pretty hard to find a new car that has window cranks. So in comparison to the "old days" even the most basic cars today seem posh. But no matter how much leather and wood trim you line it with, an Accord is still and Accord. It's not engineered to do the things real luxury cars are designed to do.

I wouldn't be so quick to say that. The new accords are extremely nice inside, very powerful for a v6, and EASILY compete with their v6 luxury counterparts from the early 90's....although I wouldn't buy one (again).

[Q45denver]

I think all of a sudden, most people are concerned about mileage more than luxury. Don't be supprised if Obama hikes up the federal tax per gallon. Sad to see the Prius is the next luxury car. A lot of celebrities already drive them.

[jimbyjimb]

Fake luxury isn't even dead, it's just disguised more. Honda Accord=Acura TL, VW Passat=Audi A4, Nissan Sentra=G20, Pathfinder=QX4, Crown Victoria=Lincoln Towncar and Continental, Murano=that wierd looking Infiniti crossover, Corvette=XLR, blah blah blaaaahhhhh! In order to buy a real luxury car you have to buy the top of the line and spend at least 60k. There is no crossover for the Audi 5 and 8 series, Acura RL, Infiniti Q45, BMW and MB lines, Cadillac STS, and so on. I love the TL, but it's just an overpriced Accord. Anything from VW in the last ten-fifteen years is way over priced and a complete pain in the rear to own, even though they are nice. The more things change the more they stay the same...

[MinisterofDOOM]

Actually...the Sentra and G20 are different cars. Lots in common, but different cars. G20 the Primera. Murano has no Infiniti equivalent. Murano is based on the Altima. All Infiniti crossovers are RWD and Z-car based. The Accord and TL are completely different cars even though the TL is based on the Accord's platform. But like the Altima-based Maxima, it's a whole new animal. The Acura TSX is the "real" Accord (sold as the Accord in the rest of the world) where the Accord we get here is really the Honda Inspire. Corvette and XLR share SOME components, but are very different cars.

[wingFeather]

Fake luxury isn't even dead, it's just disguised more. Honda Accord=Acura TL, VW Passat=Audi A4, Nissan Sentra=G20, Pathfinder=QX4, Crown Victoria=Lincoln Towncar and Continental, Murano=that wierd looking Infiniti crossover, Corvette=XLR, blah blah blaaaahhhhh! In order to buy a real luxury car you have to buy the top of the line and spend at least 60k. There is no crossover for the Audi 5 and 8 series, Acura RL, Infiniti Q45, BMW and MB lines, Cadillac STS, and so on. I love the TL, but it's just an overpriced Accord. Anything from VW in the last ten-fifteen years is way over priced and a complete pain in the rear to own, even though they are nice. The more things change the more they stay the same...

+1

As much as I love Infiniti, the lineup is nothing more than Nissan products with fake lux trim. People couldn't distinguish my 2006 M35 from the new Camry or Maxima...

[AlabamaDan]

Often times the luxury line is a jazzed up version of the other, always has been. The perception is that GMC trucks are just nicer Chevys and Mecury is a nicer Ford. There have been differences and I'm a big loyal fan of the OLDER Infiniti line. The J30 and Q45 were real Infinitis, not a jazzed up Nissan. I think the older M30 convertable and G20 might have been originals too.

I'm disappointed with the current line up, with the possible exception of the 4 door G35.

[hsckris]

Actually...the Sentra and G20 are different cars. Lots in common, but different cars. G20 the Primera. Murano has no Infiniti equivalent. Murano is based on the Altima. All Infiniti crossovers are RWD and Z-car based. The Accord and TL are completely different cars even though the TL is based on the Accord's platform. But like the Altima-based Maxima, it's a whole new animal. The Acura TSX is the "real" Accord (sold as the Accord in the rest of the world) where the Accord we get here is really the Honda Inspire. Corvette and XLR share SOME components, but are very different cars.

+1. Platform sharing doesn't mean the car is the same.... its not like old GM where the exact same car would literally be at more than one dealer with a different name on the front and maybe 5 or 10 tweaks.You would know this just by riding in a Accord and TL (for example). You are like a 1/2 step away from saying the CTS-V is a Corvette b/c they have the different versions of the same basic engine

[Q45tech]

Assuming brand new shocks you can swing from pure lux to serious performance just by changing tires..............Michelin PS2/ Pilot Sports to MXV4 Primacy/Energy...............plus the middle of the road Exalto in H or V.

That happens alot just change tires and call it a sports car after all the suspension has almost nothing to do with how a car handles other than the feel to driver.

[maxnix]

As much as I love Infiniti, the lineup is nothing more than Nissan products with fake lux trim. People couldn't distinguish my 2006 M35 from the new Camry or Maxima...

What you see is the dumbing down of America, land of the dummies and proud of it!

Only a truly unaware person would not notice the difference between FWD and RWD.

[MinisterofDOOM]

People couldn't distinguish my 2006 M35 from the new Camry or Maxima...

Well, at that point I'd say those people's opinions don't matter anyway, then. Who did you buy your car for? Your neighbor or you? I bought mine for me. People can think it's a used Camry for all I care. Doesn't detract from my driving experience in the least.

[99q45t_vl]

J30 is JDM Nissan Leopard, Q45 is JDM Nissan President. G20 is Nissan Almera.

[AlabamaDan]

Interesting that the JDM President is nicer than the US Q45. I wonder if it's the same fo the other two?

[jimbyjimb]

Our definitions of completely different cars are nothing alike. "Based on" means it wasn't completely designed as its own independent vehicle, and while the feel of a TL, G20, blah blah may be altered in a slightly different way from their lesser counterparts they are still largely the exact same vehicle, albeit with dead-cow interiors and fancy gizmos and suspension tweaks that anyone could do with the lesser counterpart. Platform sharing has and always will go on since it is the most economical and smartest way to sell the same car for alot more money. Nobody can tell me the price jump from an Accord to a TL isn't a massive profit difference for Honda. It also makes sense in that Honda will sell many more Accords than TL's, also justifying the price increase. They are, whatever minute differences there are, largely the exact same car like an easy 75% of any big car companies luxury lineups.

+1. Platform sharing doesn't mean the car is the same.... its not like old GM where the exact same car would literally be at more than one dealer with a different name on the front and maybe 5 or 10 tweaks.You would know this just by riding in a Accord and TL (for example). You are like a 1/2 step away from saying the CTS-V is a Corvette b/c they have the different versions of the same basic engine

Sharing frame structure is completely different than saying they're the same because of the drivetrain. That's a child's argument. You're right that platform sharing doesn't mean the car is the same, it means its a gussied up version the manufacturer can attach more doo-dads too and sell to you for a much higher profit margin because they tweaked a little here and there. You might be getting more but you're also getting dinged harder. It's the same thing that's been going on for years and years. It may be a little more defined now but the concept from the manufacturer's POV is still the same as it was in the past. Hershey's and Hershey's with Almonds.

[hsckris]

Have you driven or even ridden in a TL jimbyjimbjimbjimby?

Obviously not. Where the Accord is bland and floaty, the TL is sporty and nice. The TL is about as sporty as FWD gets. It has a completely different interior, a completely different suspension tune, different drivetrain options, etc.

If that isn't enough to make it a different car in your book, then you must think the FX45 (now FX50) is the same as the 350z b/c they both share the Nissan FM platform? Heck, the Odyssey and Pilot are also "based" on the Accord platform... are they the same as the TL?

I'll agree that my driveline argument wasn't really good -- but it wasn't meant to be. It was meant to illustrate how stupid it is to say that the TL and the Accord are the same.

[MinisterofDOOM]

You might as well call EVERYTHING the same car anymore, then. EVERY SINGLE INFINITI uses the same platform with the exception of the trucks (which still all share the same platform). And Nissan runs what...two different core platforms in the US right now? But a Versa is not a Sentra, a Murano is not a Maxima.

No one uses unique designs for anything anymore. It's too expensive. Even the most elite "real" luxury cars share components with other cars. Heck, the new Rolls Royce will be based on the BMW 7 series!

It has nothing to do with the death of luxury. It has everything to do with more efficient design and production.

And BTW, it was the same in the 80s and 90s when our Qs reigned. The Q has a lot of other Nissan rear-drive in it. Just like the Infinitis today.

[jimbyjimb]

Actually, I've been to 155 in a TL. Drag raced the same friend's S4 and won with the TL. Stock 1/4 mile et of 13.8, not even the sport version. Still chirps the front tires going into 4th. It's a pretty sweet ride, 6 speed, 3.2L well underrated at 258 HP. It's kind of like a passenger version of an NSX in terms of sportiness. Almost as cool as his mom's decked out Honda Odyssey. I'll give you that argument, but it doesn't change that there is still alot of "fake luxury" going on out there, nor the fact that generalizing frame structures in such a manner could go to say that any car pre 80's that had a ladder frame was a truck, and in fact not a car.

[Jesda]

My roommate has a CL. I call it the Buick of Japanese cars. I really have no idea what Acura was going for back in 2001. Its pleasant but not posh, and fun but not sporty. Its just not enough of anything to be special in any way.

Obviously, the current generation TL is quite different.

[666-g50]

the q45 is shorter that the president as well

[northt]

Having sold and wrote service on Acuras for a year the new TLs are fun to drive but WILL SQUEAK YOU TO INSANITY..... the cabin is not engineered to stand up to the stiff suspension.. at least the transmissions seem to stay in the post 04s....

[SteveTheTech]

This is an interesting topic. I understand the argument that Honda/Acura are pretty similar and they are. There are there key similarities and differences. To some that justifies the price difference (my wife included). At the end of the day its still front wheel drive and it will let you know. Audi shares its HVAC control units with Lambo, its all about how much you wanna pay.

The original article was a great depiction of what driving used to be in America. There were many performance vehicles back in the day, but the interchangeable GM was a staple of many of our childhoods. It goes with the times though, and the technology wasn't there yet to make whats now commonplace happen within the same budget. Most companies still share basic structure, since its probably easier to set up the assembly line for one structure and just change the components, but it's now possible to make two or three or more cars from the same basic underpinnings and still have very different products. The G sedan and FX are prime examples of this, they are two separate driving experiences.

Nissan makes good cars, but there is a difference between the American built quality of most Nissans and Japanese made Infinitis(with the exception of the QX56). You can feel the difference in quality when you hear the noise the respective doors make when you close them, the fit and finish of the interiors (although I will admit that many of the Infiniti ammenties have migrated) a Maxima will never be a G

[MinisterofDOOM]

the q45 is shorter that the president as well

Shorter than the less common long wheelbase President. Not shorter than the "standard" President, though.