Fairness Goes Both Ways in Engine Swaps!!

[PalmerWMD]

Members:

Many of you will know me as having promoted fairness and politeness to all poster/visitors and even businesses that have come here.(Sometimes to the point that it got on many members nerves I am sure.);)

It often involved keeping newcomers from being flamed too badly, even if those newcomers were businesses that competed with one of our own well liked members'.

I wish to say that my attempts to promote fairness towards new posters on buy/sell/trade and elsewhere, does not mean I am endorsing anyone other than the Dauntless/EZcheese team.

Both of which have been with us for years, <serving> the 240SX/NICO community with competence and TONS of their time.

This is my private communication here, cuz I dont want anyone to construe my other posts on this matter in buy/sell and elsewhere to mean I endorse anyone else.And I am NOT writing this as a moderator but just as another NICO member.

But the prime reason for this post is this:

We all know Daunt is a "240SX only" guy and Torry (ezcheese)is a "Nissan only" guy, so they have built up a lot of expertise about 240SX engine swaps.They have used this expertise to pick out good engines and help prospective customers pick out the right engine for themselves.That is part of the service they are capable of providing.

It has come to my attention that some members have abused that service to figure out what they need ,so they could buy from another business!Since that other business was unable to offer them that assistance!!:eek:

This is downright shameful!

If we are fair to a slightly cheaper newcomers by letting them advertise here for free, we HAVE to be fair and not abuse our resident swap experts, by abusing their expertise to help us buy from someone else.Using tons of someones time offboard, to enable you to do just that, is wrong!

Fairness goes both ways!Daunt deserves it too!

Fred...

[Repo Man]

And no one wants to see Fred's bad side...

[fiznat]

[quote=" palmerwmd They have used this expertise to pick out good engines and help prospective customers pick out the right engine for themselves.That is part of the service they are capable of providing.

It has come to my attention that some members have abused that service and expertise to figure out what they need ,so they could buy from another business!Since that other business was unable to offer them that assistance!!:eek:

This is downright shameful!

[/quote]

I donno about that. I mean, I understand that Daunt needs to sell engines, but that shouldnt mean that his advice should be only available to people who plan to buy from him. Of course it's up to Daunt as to who he gives his advice to, but honestly- what would you do if you called up a mechanic for information on a product and he told you to piss off unless you're definetly going to buy that product from him?

Maybe there has been "abuse" on some different level that I havnt seen- but really, I dont think people asking daunt for advise on setups and buying elsewhere is THAT bad.

Quote »Using tons of someones time offboard, to enable you to do just that, is wrong![/quote]If all of this abuse has occured offboards, then thats a little different. But still, if Daunt wanted to only give advice to those people who where to buy engines from him, his bisnuess would probably never get off the ground. Owning a bisnuess means you have to deal with both customers and shoppers- that's the way it goes.

Quote »Fairness goes both ways!Daunt deserves it too![/quote]Agreed. Thats why Im buying my engine from daunt someday!

[red240ne]

well maybe they should publish some of their experience, and give newcomers a reason to want to buy from them. heavy throttle and all them write stories about how they got into this business and about all the engine swaps they've done. there isn't much accessible information about daunt's and ezcheese's experience, so therefore there's no reason for any newbies to want to buy from them. damn i forgot what else wanted to say! it sucks to type with one finger!

[red240ne]

let me just say that i'm all for daunt's business, and i'm sure any other 3-5+ month member would be.

[PalmerWMD]

They have been with us for a long time, long before they decided to bring over engines.

They are among the core of 240SX expertise on this board as evidenced by their contributions over the years.

Fred...

[S14Zilvia]

If all of this abuse was "offboard" don't you think dauntt can handle it?

Seriously, if someone comes to him through email or phone asking for advice, it's his right to refuse.

It's a business, a service business, and you're not going to be able to control everyone who's looking for that service.

Something big must have happened that I'm not aware of, because this seems to just be a rant... I don't know that it's going to do much good.

If people were willing to ask for advice from him before, then go and buy somewhere, do you think what you said here is really going to matter to them? Obviously if they were out to help themselves in the first place they're not going to feel ashamed because someone posted about it.

[jemil118]

Fred,I might be wrong on this, but I thought there was supposed to be a 100 post minimum for people trying to sell things on the board. The prime example I am talking about is that company from Malaysia(I can't remember thier name...shows how much I care for them). They came onto the boards with the only purpose of trying to sell they're engines... they didn't offer any advice on the engine, nor did they spend a few years of thier life on the board establishing trust. I feel that is something that needed to be addressed, even though it might be a little off topic.

As for Daunt's advice, here are my thoughts. For those on the board who are telling him they're going to buy from him, with the intent of only getting information from him when they know they're going to be going somewhere else...that is wrong. For those who just ask simple questions and he answers with the intent of being a good Moderator...more power to him...It's a very fine line for him to walk and a choice he has to make... I know when I was a member of twinturbo.net, several of the moderators were all owners of Speedgear Perfomance(they built the fastest streetable 300zx in the US--10.36@147 mph) They almost never abused the fact that they were the owners of the leading shop of Z in the US...and I believe the high standards that Adam has set for himself will result in the same...just my 2 cents

[SRdS14]

Don't bull**** people!

[SRdS14]

just to clarify that...i meant, don't bull**** Daunt...etc.

[PalmerWMD]

Fred,I might be wrong on this, but I thought there was supposed to be a 100 post minimum for people trying to sell things on the board. The prime example I am talking about is that company from Malaysia

I wasn't aware of there being a policy like that, but it is starting to sound like a good idea.

Fred...

[jemil118]

I wasn't aware of there being a policy like that, but it is starting to sound like a good idea.

Fred...

Hey..maybe you can make me a moderator:D

[Nismo_Freak]

I agree with Fred... I know people are looking for the cheapest way out to get the SR20 but seriously people. When you ask 12 questions about the SR20 from Daunttless or anyone else then you turn around and buy from some guy that just shows up its VERY rude. Imagine yourself in Daunt's shoes... you go out of your way to help 100s of people only to have them go and buy from another company. People can say ... "well thats business" but its not. If you want to be a total a$$ and do something like that then go for it. Just know that you've in a way backstabbed the one guy that was helping you. If you do that then dont expect him to help you, I sure the hell wouldnt. Plus... this guy is in Malaysia... what happens if you get a bad motor? You get to wait another 3 weeks for the motor to arrive and possibly pay more. Daunt is here in the US and would help you get your motor in a week. Also, WHERE IS THE US/NISSAN PRIDE?! Buy from an American company and support the economy. Buy from a fellow Nissan owner and support his company. In turn this support will be alot more beneficial to us than saving a couple bucks buying a motor from some guy in Malaysia, Japan, Etc.

[nismodave]

I know Im considered a "newbe" but I have to put my two cents in.

In a short time I can see that Daunt has given a sooo much time an effort to educate and inform many people on this site. And when someone does those things, they damn sure deserve to be given some "special treatment".

Besides.... where I come from if someone puts in time to help you and others gain knowledge, YOU PATRONIZE THEIR BUSINESS!!

Who cares if they are a couple of bucks more expensive.

I learned the hard way when I got my sr swap, that there is no substitute for hearing fom actual customers on their experence.I learned too late.I have never bought from Daunt,I have my new sources, but I would not hesitate to if I needed to.

So if new businesses come on to the site and dangle low prices in front of members, remember those who took care of you first.

[Exar-Kun]

yeah, after seeing 6 botched sr20 swaps here and the poeple who did exacly what palemrs talking about...

wait. hold on.

A place I knopw of ehre, does sr20 installs. kids go there and talk to ghte guys about where to get them, what they need, etc, then buy it somewhere(not the problem) and take it SOMEHWERE ELSE TO INSTALL IT. well, problem is, the "cut rate" place with less than adequate knowledge botches the job( 6 alson I have seen) and they come back to the shop up the streer, crying and askinf ro a discount becuase "some of its done".

lesson is, if you know you can trust the guy selling the product or service, that goes a long way. daunt might be more expensive(I doubt it) but hes not only offering to import the engine, but install them as well, a rarecombo outside of california, all at a considerably less high markup than most people think.

anyways, the guys at the shop tell most of thier "disloyal" customers "they ****ed it up, now you ahve to pay twice. no, Im NOT being a ****, you were. you cam to us, we told you how much the install was going to cost, you left and took it somehwere else to save 300 dollars, now you bring it back because they couldnt do the job, and you gotta pay us to do it right."

buying an engine is much the same "you blew your 300 dollar cheaper engine? now you want me to import a bottom end? ok, here my price. no, no discount, I only work in entire engines, you knew what you were getting into"

anyways, knowing someones taking care of things RIGHT so you dont ahve to worry is worth MY money, every time.

-chetgimme my windows *****.

[S14Zilvia]

yeah, after seeing 6 botched sr20 swaps here and the poeple who did exacly what palemrs talking about...

wait. hold on.

A place I knopw of ehre, does sr20 installs. kids go there and talk to ghte guys about where to get them, what they need, etc, then buy it somewhere(not the problem) and take it SOMEHWERE ELSE TO INSTALL IT. well, problem is, the "cut rate" place with less than adequate knowledge botches the job( 6 alson I have seen) and they come back to the shop up the streer, crying and askinf ro a discount becuase "some of its done".

lesson is, if you know you can trust the guy selling the product or service, that goes a long way. daunt might be more expensive(I doubt it) but hes not only offering to import the engine, but install them as well, a rarecombo outside of california, all at a considerably less high markup than most people think.

anyways, the guys at the shop tell most of thier "disloyal" customers "they ****ed it up, now you ahve to pay twice. no, Im NOT being a ****, you were. you cam to us, we told you how much the install was going to cost, you left and took it somehwere else to save 300 dollars, now you bring it back because they couldnt do the job, and you gotta pay us to do it right."

buying an engine is much the same "you blew your 300 dollar cheaper engine? now you want me to import a bottom end? ok, here my price. no, no discount, I only work in entire engines, you knew what you were getting into"

anyways, knowing someones taking care of things RIGHT so you dont ahve to worry is worth MY money, every time.

-chetgimme my windows *****.

hehe, Chet's so worked up he can't even type

[ChickenBoo]

Well guys, I've been in sales my entire working life. There's a few things that I've picked up along the way:

1) You get what you pay for. Bottom line, if it costs significantly less, there's more than likely a reason.

2) Knowledge is worth the price. To take a line from one of my fav. movies, "I can take a **** in a box and mark it guaranteed. I've got spare time." I can guarantee you that that box of **** is a complete SR20 until I'm blue in the face. But just because I can't tell the difference between a box of **** and an SR20, doesn't make the box of **** a complete SR20. Get it?

3) Loyalty, loyalty, loyalty. You have somewhere you can go where you know the info/product you get always is right/working? Then you don't need to shop anywhere else. What you save in always going with quality, will make up for the times you end up having to pay for one even semi-botched job.

4) If someone is willing to help you, be willing to help them. I would consider a purchase over $2K some sort of a business relationship. If someone is willing to take their time and knowledge to help you out, you better be willing to help him guys. I've watched Dauntt answer some of the dumbest freaking questions about the most off topic things, just to tell him, "Thanks, the guy down the street knows where i can get one, and get it installed for $50 cheaper. Thanks for the info." Do you guys just want Dauntt to start asking anyone that IMs him, "are you buying from me?" before he gives out info. I can only imagine how pissed off you guys would be then.

Dauntt's already at/below avg. market price. Just because some Malaysian company comes in with cheap, not just inexpensive, engines doesn't drop the market value of them here in America. Check the competitors guys, he's reasonable: BOTTOM LINE.

[MaineExport]

I think this is just a testament to the business atmosphere. Fortunately we live in a capitalist society where the strong survive. Dumping cut-rate engines on unsuspecting customers might make you some quick cash, but it will not lead to longevity. The fact is, that people are going to pull underhanded s*** to get on top. People will do what they can to play the hand they are dealt.

I have an idea what Fred is talking about, and the little S.O.B. that used Adam's kindness and knowledge to his advantage surely knows what Fred is talking about. What he did was legal, and totally legit business wise. Does that make it ethical... NO!!!

People should be left to their own devices to decide who they buy from. Those that make uneducated decisions or are enticed by the low price may or may not end up on top. For my money, quality and peace of mind is worth more than the cash I'd save. Also, doing business with someone that has been there from the ground up and helped out countless times is the how I show support.

[Zebrahead]

Life isn't fair. People will use, cheat, and abuse at any chance they get. I'm not trying to say that I endorse it; quite the contrary, I also believe its unfair. But it is something that small business people have to deal with. Daunt just can't say "I'll answer your question only if you buy a motor from me," because he'd have to establish a bad rep. The businessman has to show a gesture of faith (i.e. Daunt spending lots of time answering questions) in hopes of people returning his favor by giving him their business. This how many businesses succeed, because they're willing to give before they recieve. Adam is a very honest and fair man, and deserves every penny he makes. I wish him the very best, and I do believe he'll succeed because he realizes this principle.

But there are people that will abuse his gesture of faith and use him. It happens. Its sad, but true.

Keep on chargin' Daunt!

Nick.

[wingzero]

true, dauntt does deserve better than that. Someone who's put that much time into this board and with that much expertise deserves more in return, I've never seen a shop owner offer to let you stay in his shop while he's doing the swap for you. Plus, I've never seen an Sr swap priced less than $2200.Now that's love, sniff.......

[notmisfit]

Quote »I know Im considered a "newbe" but I have to put my two cents in.

In a short time I can see that Daunt has given a sooo much time an effort to educate and inform many people on this site. And when someone does those things, they damn sure deserve to be given some "special treatment".

Besides.... where I come from if someone puts in time to help you and others gain knowledge, YOU PATRONIZE THEIR BUSINESS!!

Who cares if they are a couple of bucks more expensive.[/quote]

Well my first post. After spending a few months browsing without actually joining, just trolling looking up the information here I am!

As to what nismodave said, I couldn't have summed it up better myself which is why i quoted his post. Dauntless has time and time again proven to be the a knowledgeable guy. I for one will be more then happy to do my purchases with him in the coming months.

I mean hell have you seen another shop offer a 6 month 6000 mile warranty or anything even close to that with their services, let alone on something like an engine swap? I think that says alot about his character as a person and a business man.

Anyway that is just my 2 cents. Look forward to doing business with you in the future Dauntless. Nice to meet everyone look forward to sharing and learning from some of you, a class above the freshalloy community. (uh oh)

:ylsuper

[Exar-Kun]

I am jacks typos.

-chetbut you got the idea.