External Fuel Injectors. hmm.?

[tigwebu]

Anybody here running an external fuel injector? I was thinking about running a 370cc external with my four 810cc injectors but it would only kick on at around 18psi. Just wanted to say what everyone here, had to say about it. Just looking outside of the box.

[WDRacing]

There's nothing wrong with subinjectors. What are you going to use to control it? Why do you even need it? Four 810cc injectors are enough to run well over 18psi by themselves.

Have you considered using an alcohol injection kit instead of subinjectors?

WD

[tigwebu]

yeah, but i'm still kicking around ideas to go with, boosting upto 25psi, boost junkie

[wcbjr]

Much easier to just up the fuel pressure and retune.

[hannibal]

What turbo? I'm guessing 810's should good for over 500whp.

[tigwebu]

thanks WDRacing, I've researched into a bit but more on the methanol side of it. Are you or have your ran a alcohol injection set up? Any advise you'd like to share. Thanks

[Craving4Boost]

There's nothing wrong with subinjectors. What are you going to use to control it? Why do you even need it? Four 810cc injectors are enough to run well over 18psi by themselves.

Have you considered using an alcohol injection kit instead of subinjectors?

WD

how about running subjectors that run alcohol. I remember reading someone setting up an extra fuel rail and drilling more ports in the intake mani for subinjectors that would run alcohol. However, running a separate alcohol injection kit is probably more convinent because you don't need a management system to control it unlike the injectors.

[WDRacing]

Running a standalone alcohol injection kit is my MAIN method of making big power. Sure you can run huge injectors...sure you can run race gas. But A good progressive or multi stage alcohol injection kit is definitly a better option as far as I'm concerned. It doesn't mattter what standalone system you have, you'll run out of octane eventually, or you'll simply end up wasting power with timing retard...sure, you can boost 30 psi, but your timing is an ugly baby Why not use alcohol or methonal and well basically double your power!!! There isn't a reason that why.

WD

[Craving4Boost]

does alcohol affect 02 sensors negativley like leaded gas does? if not, then alcohol is the sex

[WDRacing]

Denatured, methonal, toulene, Xylene and non-denatured alcohol have no ill effects on any O2 sensor. Yes..they are the SEX

[Craving4Boost]

However I remember reading in a book that Water Injection can cause contamination of the oil, and Alcohol Injection can actually "clean" the oil off the cylinder walls which would lose lubrication and cooling.

Any input on this WD?

[WDRacing]

Thats somthing all of us could do right now with pump gas. If you flood and cylinder with to much of any petro chemical, the end result will be washing all the oil off of the cylinder wall. When you add alcohol, you either add a little bit to insure no detonation will occur or you add enough to raise the boost and maintain safe AFR's. Reguardless of what you're adding to the AF mix, be it water or Xylene, which I believe is the highest octane readily available, you have to do it in a manner/method that isn't going to damage your motor. I have personally run alcohol on 3 different cars now, all of which gained a tremendous amount of performance by doing so.

Another benefit is that you require very little if any timing retard while running alcohol. So if you have a setup that allows for two seperate maps, one track and one street, you can crank your timing up for high boost blasts at the track as long as you use enough alcohol to keep the temps down. Water does the same thing, accept it doesn't add fuel it simply cools the combustion charge. ANd I've never seen anyone end up with watery oil because of it, unless you already have a problem with the rings. I'm working on aarticle that goes over all the benefits and such of water, alcohol and propane injection. I just need to finish it up.

I would do it today, but I'm driving to Phoenix to watch a NHL game, lame teams, but its hockey

WD

[Craving4Boost]

great, I (and WE) can't wait. Have you always used 100% alcohol or have you mixed in water before?

anyone elses input would be great too.

[deviousKA]

I have devised various methods for both alternate injection (water, alcohol, nitrous etc.) and staged sequential injection (gas, maybe alchol) using the ka24e ecu.

Both methods mentioned operate in "dual table" (2x 16x16) table switching fashion, allowing dedicated fuel/ign tables to each "state" (off/on alternate injection), with configurable switching characteristics based on any sensor that the ECU uses, as well as additional sensor such as external EGT or MAP sensor.

The difference in the two methods mentioned is one simply provides a switching output to control, say, a water injection pump for continuous "on" operation over the set points. The other, staged injection method, allows a minimum of 4 extra injectors to be installed (piggybacked off first 4). The 12v + power source to these additional injectors is also controlled by the ecu, rather than directly connected to the battery. Controlling the 12v+ for the secondary set, the ecu can turn the set on/off. The same pulsewidth is always provided to all injectors, but here is the beauty of it, in combination with a dual table ign and fuel table correction, the ecu also switches to a completely different K (base fuel factor) during the switch over. This allows you to trim this base fuel factor down so that the set of 8 injectors provides a more appropriate pulsewidth that can be tuned appropriately as desired on the second table.

This is all fully contained within the original ecu hardware and I have it working with a huge code re-work. The code (staged injection type) will be freely available with more details in a few months.

The first method mentioned above is already available, the code is called EC3 (currently EC3b) and has a couple other features as well.