Exhaust Manifold to down pipe

1962-1965 Datsun L320 and NL320 forums - The truck that started it all in the US. All 320-specific topics and discussion can be found here.
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Li'l Truckie
Posts: 555
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2014 9:28 am
Car: 3 x '65 PL 320
1 x '64 PL 320
1 x '63 PL 320
1 x '62 PL 320 - parts :(
1 x '60 PLG-222
and many more Datsuns from 48hp to over 500hp
Location: Leavenworth, KS

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Okay, I give up. Looking for some help on what works best in sealing up the exhaust manifold and down pipe. As you know the 320 originally came with an 1 1/4 exhaust system. Well today it's near impossible to find a muffler shop who has the bending die this small.

Needless to say my 1 1/4 exhaust manifold does not match up very well - okay not at all very good - with the 1 1/2 down pipe. In the past and again tomorrow I will go with the aluminum tape wrap with the OE type exhaust collar with the floor jack holding the down pipe in place until the collar is Godzilla tight. This will work for a month or two, but then its back to a loud leaking exhaust around the 75-80 day mark

Greatly appreciate a more permanent fix.

thanks in advance
Li'l Truckie


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waynosworld
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How important is it that you be stock?

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Li'l Truckie
Posts: 555
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2014 9:28 am
Car: 3 x '65 PL 320
1 x '64 PL 320
1 x '63 PL 320
1 x '62 PL 320 - parts :(
1 x '60 PLG-222
and many more Datsuns from 48hp to over 500hp
Location: Leavenworth, KS

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Wayno -

Not at all for the exhaust. Though the 1 1/2 inch down pipe is a copy of the 1 1/4 inch. I picked up a NOS pipe from eBay, but reluctant to use it as I would like to keep it to make copies - if I can ever find a shop that will make me an 1 1/4 exhaust system - bike shops around here have not had many kind words when I tell them what I would like.

Andy

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waynosworld
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OK, I believe that you can use the J13 exhaust/intake manifolds, it has better exhaust flow characteristics, and it gets rid of the leaky exhaust collar, I have the same issue as you do on my U320, it leaks bad, but I have alternatives now if I want to use them.
I bought the "Patriot/exhaust header(H4800-1) from AutoZone that would likely work for you, but it would mean that you needed to use a different intake manifold or just live with the intake suspended in the air if that's possible without hitting the header.
http://www.autozone.com/exhaust/exhaust ... umber=true
I actually have a couple different exhaust manifolds that will work on the E1 I believe, I bought them for future use, I do not have a stock MGB exhaust manifold.
I also have a couple dual SU setups that I believe will also work.
Here is the pierce intake manifold that can be used with that header above if the stock intake will not work, I have a couple of these new, you don't need to buy one, I'll sell you one for cheap, they are made for a Weber though.
Image
Here is the exhaust manifold from a early high performance MGB GT, I do not believe that this will work with a column shift or maybe not even on a LHD truck.
Image
Image
Here is one of the dual SU setups, I will trash the air filter housings.
Image
Image
Here is the other dual SU setup I have, it shows the linkages better.
Image
Image
Here is another intake manifold I bought for cheap, Datsun SUs bolt right on these manifolds, but the linkage would likely have to be custom made.
Image
I have not mounted any of these parts yet, but they measure out correctly, not sure about steering column clearances yet, but they should bolt right on if they clear everything, they are early MGB parts which the E1 is a copy of.



Li'l Truckie wrote:Wayno -

Not at all for the exhaust. Though the 1 1/2 inch down pipe is a copy of the 1 1/4 inch. I picked up a NOS pipe from eBay, but reluctant to use it as I would like to keep it to make copies - if I can ever find a shop that will make me an 1 1/4 exhaust system - bike shops around here have not had many kind words when I tell them what I would like.

Andy

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Li'l Truckie
Posts: 555
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2014 9:28 am
Car: 3 x '65 PL 320
1 x '64 PL 320
1 x '63 PL 320
1 x '62 PL 320 - parts :(
1 x '60 PLG-222
and many more Datsuns from 48hp to over 500hp
Location: Leavenworth, KS

Post

Thanks Wayno.

I'm tracking the parts compatibility of the MGA/ 3x Main Bearing MGB and GT, great pic of the intake and exhaust manifold-saved this pic for later. MOWOG, Morris Wolsey Group, yip BMC parts alright.

However at this time I'm pinching pennies - lots of them as I looking at a building - so looking at a not so expensive and parts intensive fix. I'm too lazy to go the J13 route as my carb has the electronic choke on it and is somewhat buried in the back of the garage.

Sooo...my aluminum exhaust tape job lasted about a mile - my son gave me the play-by-play of how the exhaust got louder and deafening as we cruised out to our land.

Currently looking at a couple of options -

A v-band collar -
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-5-V-Band-Flan ... r9&vxp=mtr
will need to get an accurate outside diameter measurement, but this one has some possibilities...maybe

or something like this from the plumbing isle -
http://www.homedepot.com/p/LDR-Industri ... /202310688
granted the rubber sleeve will have to go, but could use the black fiberglass wrap.

or rig up some flex pipe with exhaust clamps
http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detai ... &ppt=C0022
this might be better than the plumbing bits, but do not know if there would be enough room for the clamps.

I going to try the v-band collar option first, even though it the most expensive.

Thanks
Andy

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waynosworld
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It's the early MGB engine parts that are needed/used I believe.

It sounds like the exhaust header pipe connection doesn't line up very well on your truck, I have the same issue that I have not addressed yet, I noticed on mine that when the head pipe just hangs down threatening to drag on the ground I have no leaks, it's when I start forcing it up against the bottom of the truck that it starts to leak, one of these days I will disconnect it from the rest of the system, check the angle needed and then remove it and bend it just enough to get it to stay up out of the way and reinstall it, hopefully that will fix it.

I bought the dual SU setup without the heat shield for less than $200.00, and it came off a running engine, but then sat on a shelf for a while, I was at his shop to pick it up, I believe it is good.
I bet a stock MGB exhaust manifold from a dual SU setup would be cheap, I just didn't have a photo of one to post.

I don't see a way of using flex pipe to delete the head pipe connection, but one could cut the head pipe off a foot below the connection, put it together making sure that it mated all round and doesn't leak, then connect flex pipe to what is left sticking out, and then connect the other end to the existing exhaust system, this is how I do it most the time till I break down and take it to the exhaust shop, sometimes the flex pipe rusts out a couple times before I take it to the shop for a proper fix, my work truck has had flex pipe in it now for over a decade, it hasn't got to the shop yet.

Can JB weld take exhaust temps to use as a sealer?
Li'l Truckie wrote:Thanks Wayno.

I'm tracking the parts compatibility of the MGA/ 3x Main Bearing MGB and GT, great pic of the intake and exhaust manifold-saved this pic for later. MOWOG, Morris Wolsey Group, yip BMC parts alright.

However at this time I'm pinching pennies - lots of them as I looking at a building - so looking at a not so expensive and parts intensive fix. I'm too lazy to go the J13 route as my carb has the electronic choke on it and is somewhat buried in the back of the garage.

Sooo...my aluminum exhaust tape job lasted about a mile - my son gave me the play-by-play of how the exhaust got louder and deafening as we cruised out to our land.

Currently looking at a couple of options -

A v-band collar -
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-5-V-Band-Flan ... r9&vxp=mtr
will need to get an accurate outside diameter measurement, but this one has some possibilities...maybe

or something like this from the plumbing isle -
http://www.homedepot.com/p/LDR-Industri ... /202310688
granted the rubber sleeve will have to go, but could use the black fiberglass wrap.

or rig up some flex pipe with exhaust clamps
http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detai ... &ppt=C0022
this might be better than the plumbing bits, but do not know if there would be enough room for the clamps.

I going to try the v-band collar option first, even though it the most expensive.

Thanks
Andy

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difrangia
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Car: 1978 Datsun 620 'Longbed', 1964 NL320, 1961 FIAT 500D, 1964 Type 113 Beetle, 79 Ford Festiva
Location: Oklahoma

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As Wayne was saying, regarding losing the seal when the rear part of the system is pulled up into normal position, you might have a leadout pipe that is not lined up with the exhaust manifold downtube. Probably safe to assume that virtually no 320 has the original exhaust system which means it was bent up at an exhaust shop. As everyone knows, different shops do varying degrees of accuracy in their bends and fitment. It’s kinda hard to see if you have a good alignment with the engine in the vehicle.

With the E1 that I have on the stand for ‘Mighty Mouse’ I had to take the stubby pipe back and have a little more bend kicked it to raise it to a normal position alongside the trany. What I did do before clamping the leadout pipe on the stationary engine, was to wrap three or four layers of Teflon plumber tape around the end of the exhaust manifold that the downpipe flare fits up onto. The Teflon should have no problem with the exhaust heat and will help fill in any gaps. Be sure to clean off any rust/scale on the mating surfaces before the wrap. Also try to get an assessment of the alignment of the downpipe to the manifold while you’re under there.
Steve

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Li'l Truckie
Posts: 555
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2014 9:28 am
Car: 3 x '65 PL 320
1 x '64 PL 320
1 x '63 PL 320
1 x '62 PL 320 - parts :(
1 x '60 PLG-222
and many more Datsuns from 48hp to over 500hp
Location: Leavenworth, KS

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Thanks Wayno and Steve,

Round two of my aluminum tape wrap lasted on a few blocks and son's commentary didn't help much either. Needless to say to we were breaking the sound barrier when we made it out to our land. I was smart enough to take along a few tools, namely couple of 1/2" wrenches. So after digging up a few shrubs to transplant and letting it cool down I discovered it had fallen off again. After a few minutes it was back together, trees transplanted, and a much quieter ride home

One thing my son pointed out was I probably have an 1 1/2 inch clamp and not a 1 1/4 inch clamp, so definitely will research a new smaller clamp.

Pretty sure I have a good connection as the son cut the flange part of the old exhaust off and welded to the new one.
Image

Besides the wrong clamp it may have too long of a downward neck, and as you mentioned your adjustment Steve, it hangs a little to far down under the transmission and cross-member. And this would make since that it does not seal correctly as I push it up against the transmission and cross-member as hard as I can which causes the manifold/down pipe not to seal correctly. So thanks for that bit Steve, I'll have the exhaust shop make the adjustment on their tube bending machine so it fits closer to the underside of the truck.

thanks again for the great info,
Andy

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waynosworld
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Those stock clamps are kinda hard to find, I can think of an alternative, but the top half would have to be made on the exhaust manifold before installed on the engine, it would basically be two rings pulled together by two or three nuts and bolts.
These clamps the way they clamp down on the pipes to force them together at best are marginal, especially if things don't line up perfectly or need to be adjusted, the pipe has to be right before it is mounted, as there really isn't any real adjustment except for twisting adjustment.
Is the early MGB done the same way?

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Li'l Truckie
Posts: 555
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2014 9:28 am
Car: 3 x '65 PL 320
1 x '64 PL 320
1 x '63 PL 320
1 x '62 PL 320 - parts :(
1 x '60 PLG-222
and many more Datsuns from 48hp to over 500hp
Location: Leavenworth, KS

Post

These clamps the way they clamp down on the pipes to force them together at best are marginal
that's putting it nicely :chuckle: But yes, the twisting, pushing, and pulling to get the exhaust pipe a little closer to the transmission and frame causes the down pipe to rotate on the exhaust manifold some, which causes a faint and annoy exhaust leak.

MGA/B manifold - just like your photo above. Studs in the exhaust manifold bolted to the flange on the exhaust pipe.

Need to find it, but Gemmer or Steve, post a link to a early Ford Model T web page that listed the correct E1 exhaust clamp.

Andy

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waynosworld
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Is this the one your talking about?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Model-T-Ford-Mu ... DB&vxp=mtr
It really doesn't say the size, so one cannot really know if it will work, and it's basically the same design as the stock clamp, so if one has the stock clamp, what's the point, but it would work if you don't have an original clamp if it's the proper size.
Li'l Truckie wrote:
These clamps the way they clamp down on the pipes to force them together at best are marginal
that's putting it nicely :chuckle: But yes, the twisting, pushing, and pulling to get the exhaust pipe a little closer to the transmission and frame causes the down pipe to rotate on the exhaust manifold some, which causes a faint and annoy exhaust leak.

MGA/B manifold - just like your photo above. Studs in the exhaust manifold bolted to the flange on the exhaust pipe.

Need to find it, but Gemmer or Steve, post a link to a early Ford Model T web page that listed the correct E1 exhaust clamp.

Andy

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difrangia
Posts: 158
Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:01 am
Car: 1978 Datsun 620 'Longbed', 1964 NL320, 1961 FIAT 500D, 1964 Type 113 Beetle, 79 Ford Festiva
Location: Oklahoma

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Andy,
Here is the Teflon tape wrap that I referred to. About four layers. I am leaving the overflow into the inside of the manifold for the exhaust to clean out.

Image

Steve


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