Ethanol-Free gas

[BCC93QT]

I was over in the Albany NY area today and I came across a new chain of gas stations with "PitStop" being the name. I took notice they were offering ethanol-FREE gas @ 91 and 93 octanes. I said no way this is true. Well it was and is. Filled up my tank for a little more than the normal price and talked to the clerk for a bit. Seems business is booming and they are expanding throughout the northeast with one opening 20 minutes from my house within a year. Researched it and its just over the border opening at the speedway. Here comes the wave.

[Q45Owner]

I was over in the Albany NY area today and I came across a new chain of gas stations with "PitStop" being the name. I took notice they were offering ethanol-FREE gas @ 91 and 93 octanes. I said no way this is true. Well it was and is. Filled up my tank for a little more than the normal price and talked to the clerk for a bit. Seems business is booming and they are expanding throughout the northeast with one opening 20 minutes from my house within a year. Researched it and its just over the border opening at the speedway. Here comes the wave.

Ok, so? What would be the point of you using ethanol-free gas?? It couldn't possibly be to achieve better gas mileage out of your Q, because you made it perfectly clear that you have no interest in doing that in my 0W-20 oil thread. So then what would be the benefit for you in switching to ethanol-free gas instead of just using regular E10 especially when you said it cost you "a little more than the normal price"?

[SanCarlosQ45]

I guess you really don't know the effects of ethanol. Its become an issue with older vehicles especially classics, including ours because it eats through the rubber fuel hoses. When I replaced my engine with a JDM engine, I made sure to replace all the fuel lines with ethanol safe lines. Not to mention what it does to side fed injectors, there is a reason why they some of the new replacement injectors are designed to be E10 safe. Ethanol attracts water, as much as 10x straight gasoline, including from the air that is in the tank so during the winter time this is especially important in the north east or mid west.

And by the way, with the new engine I only saw a 1-2mpg increase over the original with 185k. Intake was spotless, fuel injectors were cleaned, a 20-25 psi increase in compression, and both dino 10w-30 and synthetic 0W-40 were used. Again this is not a good scientific test so this could be any number of variables causing it, including the time of year, temperature and how I feel.

[elwesso]

Non-ethanol gas is especially important in the marine industry. Like it was said, ethanol absorbs water where gasoline repels it. So instead of water just sitting at the bottom of the tank, it gets mixed in with the gasoline causing this nasty and corrosive water/gasoline mixture. In the marine industry it destroys everything, it will corrode the heck out of carburetors, and it will make fuel lines swell up and look like clotted arteries. In the marine industry, it's a much bigger deal because water in the gasoline is a lot more common due to leaky gas caps and boats have a tendency to sit idle for longer periods of time.

My family's marina sells only ethanol free gasoline, and a good share of when people come into our marina with drivability/running issues, it's because they filled up at a gas station rather than at our place. Usually once we drain the tank and replace the fuel lines, the boat runs great. What also exaggerates this problem is that most boats have fuel/water separators, so when someone fills their tank with ethanol fuel, it simply pulls all that water out of the fuel/water separator causing major issues.

It's pretty well known on the Q's though that ethanol related gasoline destroys especially the older style 90-93 injectors. Back in the day, 90-93's didn't have nearly the problems with injectors as they do today. You could see the trends where people would have injector problems like crazy in cities that had ethanol, where places that still had ethanol free gasoline experienced very little issues.

[BCC93QT]

Ok, so? What would be the point of you using ethanol-free gas?? It couldn't possibly be to achieve better gas mileage out of your Q, because you made it perfectly clear that you have no interest in doing that in my 0W-20 oil thread. So then what would be the benefit for you in switching to ethanol-free gas instead of just using regular E10 especially when you said it cost you "a little more than the normal price"?

You have already made yourself sound like an idiot more than once. You have owned your Q for what 6 months? Don't chime in unless you have anything reasonable to say. You simply came in to bash my thread? I didn't bash yours, I stated my opinion on your choice of oil. Try not to make yourself sound like an idiot and think before you post. Otherwise get lost

Wes, at Lyon aviation they do not sell any gas with ethanol. Everybody thinks ethanol devastated the car industry, research what it did to the aviation industry and all the classic planes

[elwesso]

Wow I can only imagine what that did. If you have a fuel line swell up and cause a stall, it a hell of a lot more of a big deal in a plane than it is in a car or boat!!!!!!!

[Q45Owner]

You have already made yourself sound like an idiot more than once. You have owned your Q for what 6 months? Don't chime in unless you have anything reasonable to say. You simply came in to bash my thread? I didn't bash yours, I stated my opinion on your choice of oil. Try not to make yourself sound like an idiot and think before you post. Otherwise get lost

And you have already made yourself sound like a hypocrite more than once now and I just called you out on it again. You didn't bash my thread? Ha. what a laugh. You CLEARLY said that 0W-20 oil has NO effect on gas mileage and I was WRONG for getting better fuel economy by using it. Despite the fact that it is a well known fact that thinner oils DO provide better fuel economy. Your statement about how long I have owned my Q is completely irrelevant to this conversation.

The point is you are wrong about 0W-20 and you have not answered my question as to why YOU spent extra money on ethanol-free gas when you apparently claim to care so little about improving fuel economy in your Q. I know all the benefits of using ethanol-free gas vs. E10, that wasn't my point. My question is why did YOU start this thread and decide to spend more money on ethanol-free gas over regular E10?

In the future, try not to make yourself sound like a hypocrite by starting threads clearly aimed at improving fuel economy while bashing others who do the same.

[qship96]

I hate stupid people,especially those soo stupid,they dont even realize they are stupid. Newbie ought to spend some time reading old threads to understand the reason many try to avoid ethanol laced fuel in old Q.....hint,it has nothing to do with MPG........

[BCC93QT]

You have already made yourself sound like an idiot more than once. You have owned your Q for what 6 months? Don't chime in unless you have anything reasonable to say. You simply came in to bash my thread? I didn't bash yours, I stated my opinion on your choice of oil. Try not to make yourself sound like an idiot and think before you post. Otherwise get lost

And you have already made yourself sound like a hypocrite more than once now and I just called you out on it again. You didn't bash my thread? Ha. what a laugh. You CLEARLY said that 0W-20 oil has NO effect on gas mileage and I was WRONG for getting better fuel economy by using it. Despite the fact that it is a well known fact that thinner oils DO provide better fuel economy. Your statement about how long I have owned my Q is completely irrelevant to this conversation.

The point is you are wrong about 0W-20 and you have not answered my question as to why YOU spent extra money on ethanol-free gas when you apparently claim to care so little about improving fuel economy in your Q. I know all the benefits of using ethanol-free gas vs. E10, that wasn't my point. My question is why did YOU start this thread and decide to spend more money on ethanol-free gas over regular E10?

In the future, try not to make yourself sound like a hypocrite by starting threads clearly aimed at improving fuel economy while bashing others who do the same.

''

I am not one to worry about fuel economy and please clarify where exactly I have. I never once said ethanol-free gas will improve ANY sort of mpg. You have NO experience on the Q45 whatsoever, why you question any logic on Ethanol is absurd. You are jumping the gun child. I simply asked you to provide facts on said MPG increase with 0w-20 in which you have not. I asked you why you are bashing 0w-40 and you have not answered that. Is this a competition? If it is what do you get when you win and why are you out to prove me out of all people wrong. You have owned a Q for 6 months. I have owned a Q for 10 years which is still less than half of most of the experience on here. I have run multiple types of oil, and have this thing still running well over 320k miles and you have half a year experience with a Q45. Time and time again this site has seen you people only to fall victim of their own idiocracy on maintaining a Q45. There is more to some of our posts than simply maintaining a 20 year old car. Most of us are engineers and not teenage wrenchers. Throughout your entire 0w-20 thread you have bigoted yourself and now you bring it here?
Please continue with your pathetic attempts at putting yourself on a pedestal.

Happy 800th post to me.

[Skibane]

Non-ethanol gas is especially important in the marine industry. Like it was said, ethanol absorbs water where gasoline repels it. So instead of water just sitting at the bottom of the tank, it gets mixed in with the gasoline causing this nasty and corrosive water/gasoline mixture.

The problem gets even worse when more moisture accumulates than the ethanol can absorb: Instead of a uniform water/alcohol mixture in the tank, you get random pockets of pure water. So, the engine stalls or runs poorly as it ingests a slug of water.

Ironically, one way to dissipate these water pockets is to temporarily add more alcohol (ethanol, methanol, isopropanol, etc.) - More alcohol present means more water absorption.

[Q451990]

I can get E-free gas around here at several stations - but only in 89 octane. I assume it's because we're near a pretty good sized lake, so the boaters buy it.

So a more productive question. Which would be better, 93 octane with up to 10% ethanol, or 89 octane real gas? I replaced my injectors with ones that are supposedly able to withstand ethanol all the way to E85 (not that the rest of the car could) so that's not an issue... Maybe E-Free + an octane booster? But I've heard that ethanol is an ingredient in some octane boosters and didn't get very far with that research.

I've been buying E Free for my lawn equipment and pressure washer this year after seeing all of the problems E10 is causing in small engines. It almost seems a shame to use better gas in my lawn mower than my cars.

Heath

[Q45Owner]

I hate stupid people,especially those soo stupid,they dont even realize they are stupid. Newbie ought to spend some time reading old threads to understand the reason many try to avoid ethanol laced fuel in old Q.....hint,it has nothing to do with MPG........

And I hate stupid people who assume that I don't know all the negative effects ethanol can have on a Q (or any car). I never said increased MPG was the only benefit to using ethanol-free gas, I was simply asking the OP why he decided to pay more for it. Ethanol-free gas is known first for improving fuel economy and since the OP made it clear in the other thread that he does not CARE about increased MPG, I wanted clarification as to why HE decided to spend more for it. Furthermore, usually those who resort to name-calling are known as the first to lose an argument. If you have nothing intelligent to add to the conversation (especially since no one was even talking to you in the first place), maybe you should just keep your rude comments to yourself, ok?

[Q45Owner]

I am not one to worry about fuel economy and please clarify where exactly I have. I never once said ethanol-free gas will improve ANY sort of mpg. You have NO experience on the Q45 whatsoever, why you question any logic on Ethanol is absurd. You are jumping the gun child. I simply asked you to provide facts on said MPG increase with 0w-20 in which you have not. I asked you why you are bashing 0w-40 and you have not answered that. Is this a competition? If it is what do you get when you win and why are you out to prove me out of all people wrong. You have owned a Q for 6 months. I have owned a Q for 10 years which is still less than half of most of the experience on here. I have run multiple types of oil, and have this thing still running well over 320k miles and you have half a year experience with a Q45. Time and time again this site has seen you people only to fall victim of their own idiocracy on maintaining a Q45. There is more to some of our posts than simply maintaining a 20 year old car. Most of us are engineers and not teenage wrenchers. Throughout your entire 0w-20 thread you have bigoted yourself and now you bring it here?
Please continue with your pathetic attempts at putting yourself on a pedestal.

I don't care how long you have owned your Q or how many miles it has on it. That is completely irrelevant to this conversation. So is the fact of whether or not I've owned my Q for 6 days or 6 months or 6 years or 16 years. I asked you a question and you never answered it. I'll ask again, why did you spend more money on ethanol-free gas?

I have provided plenty of facts and links in my thread which you have conveniently ignored. Also, a simple search will provide you with all of the proof you'll need about 0W-20 and its benefits. You have routinely resorted to bashing and name-calling when I have disagreed with you and you rarely answer my questions when I try to understand your point of view. You still have not answered the question as to why you use a 40w oil in your Q when Infiniti says to use a 30w oil. Saying that your Q has "over 300k miles" is not an answer. I don't give a crap how many miles your Q has. Many Infinitis, Lexus, etc can go that high with proper routine maintenance. You act like your word is somehow superior because you have a high mileage Q and I have only been a Q owner for 6 months. Big deal. You attacked me on my thread and said it was "impossible" that I achieved better fuel economy in my Q by using the 0W-20 oil when you have NO EXPERIENCE using it ever in your 300k+ miles in your Q. So who has more experience with that? I do.

I could care less about you being an engineer. But even if you are, you are terrible at trying to prove your points. In the future, try providing more facts and less bashing. You'll have more credibility.

[BCC93QT]

Anyone that has experience with Ethanol would realize automatically why I purchased ethanol-FREE gas. You are showing your inexperience with engines all together let alone this car. Do some research. Name calling? Bashing? Provide me with anything I said other than calling you inexperienced with this vehicle. Yes I re-read that stupid oil post of yours and have not found any. And yes you do act like a child throwing a fit when you answer posts. If that is bashing you are a sally. Why are you here trying to throw jabs at this? I stated I found ehanol-free gas and you run some crap on your oil? Are you kidding me? I know 0w-20 oil is used in most new 4 cylinder cars and hybrids. You are mixing threads. Stay on topic. It is your choice to use 0w-20 but most of us are telling you not to. Why do you run thinner oils? Fuel efficiency. Why do you try to increase MPG in a v8? I don't know why. Why do I run 0w-40? Because I want the extra mile, I want the extra protection because I beat the living crap out of my Q45 day after day, year after year. I redline my Q anytime I can. I take it to the speedway. I let others beat the crap out of it. Any car will get hot when you redline it frequently and drive it the way It has been driven at times. I cannot blow it up. When I change my oil every 10-12k miles it comes out almost the same color as it went in. Any other oil than M1 0w-40 would not stand up to the abuse. IF I want gas mileage I don't take the Q. Like I said in the past, my Q45 is more of an educational tool than of anything else. Stick with your oil, i'll stick with mine. I know where mine has got me and where it will get me. I am running on knowledge and experience. You are running on inexperience and a prayer.

[BCC93QT]

I hate stupid people,especially those soo stupid,they dont even realize they are stupid. Newbie ought to spend some time reading old threads to understand the reason many try to avoid ethanol laced fuel in old Q.....hint,it has nothing to do with MPG........

And I hate stupid people who assume that I don't know all the negative effects ethanol can have on a Q (or any car). I never said increased MPG was the only benefit to using ethanol-free gas, I was simply asking the OP why he decided to pay more for it. Ethanol-free gas is known first for improving fuel economy and since the OP made it clear in the other thread that he does not CARE about increased MPG, I wanted clarification as to why HE decided to spend more for it. Furthermore, usually those who resort to name-calling are known as the first to lose an argument. If you have nothing intelligent to add to the conversation (especially since no one was even talking to you in the first place), maybe you should just keep your rude comments to yourself, ok?

No one was talking to you either as you chimed in with references from an existing and irrelevant post. You are so stuck on your choice of oil that you are going to the end of the earth to make it seem you have done something extraordinary.

Ha. what a laugh. You CLEARLY said that 0W-20 oil has NO effect on gas mileage and I was WRONG for getting better fuel economy by using it.

This is not accurate and only is an assumption. 1mpg... There are so many variables... Weather, temperature, your mood, traffic, what kind of shoes you have on... Especially since you are aiming for higher mileage now rather than even thinking about it with your previous oil. Maybe you are just driving it like a sally now that you have different oil. Quicker and better passing means LESS gas mileage as you would be on the pedal more... I mean all the best to you but if you are looking for some special commendation take it else where.

I never said you were WRONG. I did not say it has NO effect on gas mileage. I said it was your assumption and it is not accurate. There are variables. Where on that entire thread did I say you were wrong? Where on this thread have I resorted to name calling? I called you inexperienced and young. Why such immaturity?

Regarding your oil.

Improving MPG... Not to be negative but I seriously doubt you will see an increase of even 1 MPG. With these cars/engines being as old as they are I think MPG should be on the back of your mind and engine longevity in your sights. You may have a better shot finding non-ethanol or leaded gas and maybe improving fuel mileage that way rather finding an oil that will increase your mpg... I used to get the ethanol free gas over the boarder in NY a few years back but it has ceased to exist

Ethanol-free gas may improve MPG but that is not the reason I purchased it.

[licensepl8]

The following in an excerpt from a March 2013 Economist magazine:

"Moreover, ethanol burned in an engine produces more than twice as much ozone as the equivalent amount of petrol. Ground-level ozone is a big cause of smog. And, while good at boosting a fuel’s octane rating, ethanol packs only two-thirds the energy per gallon of petrol. As a result, motorists get fewer miles per gallon using fuel blended with ethanol than with undiluted petrol. So, even if blended fuel is cheaper per gallon than petrol (thanks to ethanol's subsidies), the overall cost of using it tends to be higher."

The issue with ethanol is the fewer number of carbon atoms than that of pure gasoline, and these fewer atoms - even at blends of only 10% ethanol - has a direct impact on miles-per-gallon.

[nismopcparts]

[end of ethanol]

http://www.starbrite.com/en/startron

[/end of ethanol]