ethanol blends?

[mtdive]

Living here on the east coast. in sunny myrtle beach we've just started getting gas stations with postings on the pump's that say up to 10% ethanol blend.. For all thous out there in the rest of the world that already have blends how does this effect your G. Is there in ill effects. or nothing to worry about. There are just as many stations here running straight gas if i should stay away.

[TeflonG35]

They have been running a mixture here for awhile. I didn't notice any bad side affects.

[smockers83]

The G doesn't like anything above 10%. Not sure how much it affects it, but ethanol has a lower energy content than gasoline.

[groundrocket]

back in the 70s with the gas crisis going on Brazil required something like 60% of new cars had to be ethanol - not much after that they had to start replacing the jets in the carbs as ethanol is somewhat corosive... when all the cars ended up in the shop due to running way too rich they had to start chrome plating the innards to their carbs...

Just some usless info that stuck in my head... I wonder if there have been any studies on the effects of ethanol and its effects on fuel injection at the 10% blend ratio...

[telcoman]

Living here on the east coast. in sunny myrtle beach we've just started getting gas stations with postings on the pump's that say up to 10% ethanol blend.. For all thous out there in the rest of the world that already have blends how does this effect your G. Is there in ill effects. or nothing to worry about. There are just as many stations here running straight gas if i should stay away.

mtdive

Welcome to NICO, a place where many opinions hang out

On a drive to Florida about a year ago, I did fill up at a station that posted 15% ethanol. I did notice a slight decrease in performance. Every station that I've gone to between New Jersey and Florida recently has 10% ethanol posted on their pumps. I use BP, Raceway, Petrol, or whatever is at the truck stops when I travel. I post a running total of my MPG and in almost 60k miles, all I've used is regular 87 octane and my G 35 runs just fine on it. Same for my previous Lexus ES 300 5 speed that I had for 14 years, and my 88 Mazda 929 5 speed that had over 200k miles when I got rid of it. I'm and old farht and I don't give a rats $ss what the owners manuals say in regards to gasoline. They and the oil companies are in business to extract the most money that they can out of consumers pockets.

Ok, I'm done! I feel better now!

Telcoman

[rmezz13]

You won't be saying that when your motor detonates from running that low octane crap thru it....... Just another variety of opinion, welcome to NICO!!!

[zozoka1212]

hahahahaget use to my old Telco bro.

He is mr 87 octane aka mr mod money into401. Oh yeah and mr 26.780904550504040mpg.

heheheh

zozo

[TeflonG35]

His title should be "Mr. 87 octane" Come on mods. Lol.

[soul_hfk]

some of what he said is true "the oil companies are in business to extract the most money that they can out of consumers pockets" but the rest all i could hear was i love low octane crap . but ill NEVER run any of that ethanol blend in my car

[Jacko3]

Just about every gas station I go to has this 10% ethanol crap in all the grades of fuel. My car runs great nonetherless, but I have noticed that my car's MPG has dropped. I can't beleive the federal govt is mandating that we use gas that is actually worse for our cars/wallets because they want to please the auto and oil companies. Very sad! Only God knows what the ethanol is doing to my gas tank.

[Slider4105]

I read a report that the E85 ethanol actually gets something like 60% of the mpg that gasoline does, but the trade off is it gives you more power (something to do with the octane rating or something). Anyways, some of the stations around here have been using the 10% blend and all I've noticed is MAYBE a 1 mpg drop, if that. If theres a correlation between the E85 and the newer low blend ethanol that would explain our slight losses in mpg ratings, but not what some people feel are power loses.

[joe603]

Actually, E85 produces less power compared to regular unleaded. That's why you get less gas mileage. The only benefit is that ethanol is renewable, gasoline isn't.

[Sentientbydesign]

It should burn a little cleaner too.

some of what he said is true "the oil companies are in business to extract the most money that they can out of consumers pockets" but the rest all i could hear was i love low octane crap . but ill NEVER run any of that ethanol blend in my car

Sooner or later, you'll probably be forced to. I don't think you can find a non-ethanol blend here in Cali.

[Kendahl]

According to my G37's manual, 10% ethanol (E-10) is OK. Just make sure the octane rating of the mixture is high enough. You might get away with 15% ethanol, but 85% (E-85) is too much.

By volume, ethanol has only 70% as much chemical energy as straight gasoline. Therefore, you lose 3% with E-10 and 25% with E-85. For cars like the G35 and G37, the reduction in gas mileage with E-10 is only about 0.6 mpg. It takes an engine lab to measure such small differences. You can't reliably do it on the road. If you could run E-85 in a G, you would lose about 5 mpg.

Where I live, most stations carry 87 octane unleaded regular, 89 octane E-10 and 91 octane unleaded premium. My G37 gets premium. However, I have other cars that can run on either regular or E-10. I buy whichever one is cheaper after figuring in the 3% loss in mileage. If regular costs $3.60 per gallon, E-10 must be at least 11 cents per gallon cheaper before it is worth buying. E-85 would have to be at least 90 cents cheaper.

[joe603]

...and that's the problem, its more expensive!

[groundrocket]

back in the 70s with the gas crisis going on Brazil required something like 60% of new cars had to be ethanol - not much after that they had to start replacing the jets in the carbs as ethanol is somewhat corosive... when all the cars ended up in the shop due to running way too rich they had to start chrome plating the innards to their carbs...

Just some usless info that stuck in my head... I wonder if there have been any studies on the effects of ethanol and its effects on fuel injection at the 10% blend ratio...

[groundrocket]

strange glitch - I only posted the above post once earlier - log back in and it posted again and put me back into the thread - odd...

One more thing on the ethanol subject tho - with all of the "carbon footprint" eco freak news they continue to push ethanol as a cleaner fuel source but they fail to look at the reality of it - if you look at all of the polution created in the planting, growning, processing, and hauling of corn to the processing plant and hauling the ethanol to the refinery for blending into the gas supply the "carbon footprint" is actually equal to or greater than just burning gas in personal cars. Maybe they should start applying their footprint concept to their "green" solutions.

Kirk

[BrandAidDesignG35]

Sometimes I say, I should be taking a bus or something, but I always just get in my G every day and park underground which is so much nicer, I wish gas was cheaper, where I am, I can pay 80-90 to fill, and drive 5-600 Kilometers...

I can only get 91 octane, which right now costs 1.40 canadian per litre.

I 've put on 22000km on my car in 6 months, I just bought it in November, and I keep on driving to work... It is a NICE daily driver....

If I could pay more for ethanol free fuel ( or 93 octane), I would - not worth even risking it...

[Jacko3]

kendahl:

I being someone totally in tune with my car, the ethanol blend does not affect the horsepower as much as it affects the torque of the car. Ethanol gasoline blend is terrible. it is making me not enjoy my car as much. The horsepower is still almost okay---i can live with that. But the torque in my car has dropped somewhat and I can feel it all the time--this is a torque killer. Worst type of gasoline to have in any car. If you drive your car normally, you probably won't notice or experience what I am saying.

Our govt is shafting us like idiots as the gasoline blend is the same price as the non-gasoline blend and it burns faster. I mean I now literally see my gas needle moving when before, I could flog my car all day and the gas needle barely moves. I hate ethanol-blend--terrible.


Modified by Jacko3 at 9:47 AM 5/12/2008

[Sentientbydesign]

kendahl:

I being someone totally in tune with my car, the ethanol blend does not affect the horsepower as much as it affects the torque of the car. Ethanol gasoline blend is terrible. it is making me not enjoy my car as much. The horsepower is still almost okay---i can live with that. But the torque in my car has dropped somewhat and I can feel it all the time--this is a torque killer. Worst type of gasoline to have in any car. If you drive your car normally, you probably won't notice or experience what I am saying.

Our govt is shafting us like idiots as the gasoline blend is the same price as the non-gasoline blend and it burns faster. I mean I now literally see my gas needle moving when before, I could flog my car all day and the gas needle barely moves. I hate ethanol-blend--terrible.

Modified by Jacko3 at 9:47 AM 5/12/2008

Did they just switch you over to a Exx blend in Florida? I have a hard time believing that your car had such amazing gas mileage last month and is suffering like crazy this month.

It's probably the weather.

[Jacko3]

Sentient:

No. As the gas prices kept creeping up, all of a sudden I noticed that the BP gas station I go to, had a small sticker note on the pump that said, "May contain 10% ethanol"--never seen this label before at any BP gas station. I took the sticker fro granted, and lo and behold, my car just drinks the gas like when I was still breaking in the engine--although I get slightly better gas mileage than then.

I drove almost 40 miles away from my home to find another BP gas station that had not converted to the ethanol crap that they now sell. Lo and behold, I flogged my car for 40 miles and I still came back with better gas mileage tan with If I had used Ethanol for 30 miles while driving in a moderately spirited fashion.

I was really pissed because this confirmed to me that my car was perfectly fine. Now I just blink and fume like a mad person when i am about to fork over my hard earned cash for the trashy ethanol gas that is being forced down our throat.

I thought something was wrong with my car when there was nothing wrong with it. And the BP Gas station i bought the non-blend gas from, has since swithed to ethanol gas. Now, i am really pissed, pissed, pissed.

Worst energy policy for our nation. I can't wait to see the fumes in the mind of many when they finally realize that ethanol wil become the order of the day for our nation. I think it is a national thing, nothing unique to any state.

[Sentientbydesign]

We've been running that crap here in SoCal for the past few years.

[telcoman]

Sentient:

No. As the gas prices kept creeping up, all of a sudden I noticed that the BP gas station I go to, had a small sticker note on the pump that said, "May contain 10% ethanol"--never seen this label before at any BP gas station. I took the sticker fro granted, and lo and behold, my car just drinks the gas like when I was still breaking in the engine--although I get slightly better gas mileage than then.

I drove almost 40 miles away from my home to find another BP gas station that had not converted to the ethanol crap that they now sell. Lo and behold, I flogged my car for 40 miles and I still came back with better gas mileage tan with If I had used Ethanol for 30 miles while driving in a moderately spirited fashion.

I was really pissed because this confirmed to me that my car was perfectly fine. Now I just blink and fume like a mad person when i am about to fork over my hard earned cash for the trashy ethanol gas that is being forced down our throat.

I thought something was wrong with my car when there was nothing wrong with it. And the BP Gas station i bought the non-blend gas from, has since swithed to ethanol gas. Now, i am really pissed, pissed, pissed.

Worst energy policy for our nation. I can't wait to see the fumes in the mind of many when they finally realize that ethanol wil become the order of the day for our nation. I think it is a national thing, nothing unique to any state.

Jacko

Calm down, take a deep breath.

Keep in mind that our consumption of foreign oil has increased sharply since the long gas lines in 1979. There have been no additional refineries built in the US for over 30 years. The demand for gasoline has increased sharply in Russia,China, and India along with the United States. The low interest rates, our sharply increasing debt are affecting not only the price of oil but all commodities sharply forcing up the price of food.Add these factors along with our misguided energy policy that encourged the purchase of trucks and huge SUV's that were made exempt from the CAFE standards for passenger vehicles, you can begin to understand why fuel prices have risen so sharply. The sharp increase in ethanol production has increased the price of food and corn.The margin on gasoline sales is small and the gas stations make their money on sales of food and other items.In the coming years you and all of us are going to be adjusting and making changes in our gasoline consumption and the vehicles that we drive.In my opinion, the present gasoline tax both federal and state should be doubled to move things along a little faster. When it costs the owners of Hummers and other huge SUV's $150.00 or more to fill up they'll be off our roads sooner rather than later reducing our gasoline consumption.Ok I'm done!



Telcoman

[Jacko3]

Telcoman:

Thanks for the kind words. I agree completely. I guess I was mad becasue just as I was smiling and laughing at the impressive gas mileage I was getting with the mods, this ethanol blend crap swoops in, and takes away my joy in a blink of an eye. Anyway, we shall all survive this, somehow. By the way, how are you doing today?

[Sentientbydesign]

Telco,

I totally agree with you. Down with the inefficient hunks of junk!!! My next project is severe weight loss for the coupe= Taking everything apart to see what's really necessary.

I'd be happy if I can shed a couple hundred pounds without reliquishing any features.

As for the taxes...I'm on the fence about that one. I can see where you're going with it, but in states like CA where CalTrans continuously gouges us and takes too long to build what they're supposed to, I don't think increasing our taxes is a great idea. It will just end up in their pockets.

Greedy mother F#$&ers. We're something like 70 million over budget and 1.5 years late in getting our new interchanges. What they do have done looks like a 3 y/o cut and paste the HWYs together (uneven, seams in weird places).

[Kendahl]

Jacko:

I wonder if you got a load of fuel with an octane rating that was too low. If the engine computer senses knocking, it will back off until the knocking stops. This hurts performance including gas mileage.

There have been previous discussions about fuel grade with no definite conclusions. Some people run 87 octane with no problems. Others report significant loss of performance with anything less than 91. Ethanol is very high octane. The gasoline portion of "mid grade" E-10 is 87 octane regular. Adding ethanol bumps its octane rating to 89. Adding ethanol to 91 octane premium should raise its rating even higher, perhaps to 92 or 93. Some engines can take advantage of this. I don't know if that includes G engines.

The current ethanol boom is being driven by politics in response to strenuous lobbying by ethanol producers and farmers. At this time, gasoline is still cheap enough that ethanol can't compete without subsidies and mandates. That may change as gasoline becomes more and more expensive and ethanol production becomes more efficient. The environmental movement, which initially favored ethanol, is becoming disillusioned with it. Neither the oil companies nor the automobile manufacturers want or benefit from ethanol. The oil companies preferred MTBE, which they produced, over ethanol, which they have to buy. The manufacturers don't want anything that increases their engineering and manufacturing costs.

From an engineering viewpoint, it is entirely possible to design engines that run successfully on alcohol. But there is more to it than dumping ethanol into the fuel tank of an engine designed to run on gasoline.

[Sentientbydesign]

I think the issue is that ethanol has less chemical energy than gasoline does. So the higher octane comes from the fact that the additive is essentially diluting the fuel.

[Jacko3]

Kendahl:

To be sure, it isn't my car, I am replacing my spark plugs and air intake in a few months. The horsepower is okay---infact my fifth and sixth gear at highe speeds are actually pulling more than they used to---this surprises me. It is the torque that I am a little worried about in 2nd , 3rd amd 4th gear, at 4,500 RPM and beyond. On the other hand, maybe my clutch isn't grabing as it used to when my G was new. Anyway, I will start with changing the simplest stuff (spark plugs and air filter) and then work my way to the expensive stuff. Whatever, it is, it all started happening after I started using gas that had up to 10 % ethanol.

When I drive normaly, my car seems to burn normally. When I flog the car, that is when the obvious difference between regular gasoline and blend becomes very apparent in terms of quick gas consumption--I now see my gas needle moving .

I didn't buy my G-35 to drive it gently. Now, I get worried of quick gas consumption when i flog the car to 7,000RPM, which I love to routinely do. But now, I have to temper my exuberance for fear of going bankrupt from high gas prices.