Error message: Stop light assembly non-functional ('92 Q)

[kdkrone]

Twice in the past 4 years I have had this error message. The first time I was able to start the car but it would barely move and the headlights would not turn on until it was resolved, and the other day, I had to jump the car (despite the fact that the battery is relatively new and is remains fine a few days afterward now). I think that there is a circuit which activates that will not allow one to drive the car with a faulty stop light assembly, which is not unreasonable with regard to safety.

Each time I had packed something in the trunk (the first time, I had packed it full for a trip) and just recently, I had thrown my golf bag into the trunk. Each time the message cleared when I moved the contents around, but that is just the association that I have made in these two episodes.

Can anyone suggest where I might begin looking for a loose wire which is presumably the cause of this problem? Anyone have the problem????

ThanksKen K

[goody90q45]

Pull out the brake lamp modules behind the flap in the trunk and look at the bulb tips and the (female) sockets in the modules. No tools required, just squeeze the tabs on the module to remove it. Chances are one of the female sockets is melted through or the bulb lead has melted. The dual filament bulbs run hot.

[kdkrone]

Mike, you aren't saying, then, that it is a burned out bulb, as I know that won't give that error message or make the car non-driveable; you are saying that the sockets themselves may be the issue...

I will check them and report back.

Ken

[Q451990]

I am not aware of any safety feature that would make the car difficult to drive if the stop lamps are not working.

Heath

[maxnix]

Time to load test your alternator. Bad alternator kill good batteries and vice versa.

Check all bulb sockets and wiring. Use only OEM or Sylvania LL and Silverstars.

[kdkrone]

Maxnix,

I will be happy to load test my alternator. Just tell me where I hook up my antique ammeter and what you want me to do.

Meanwhile, I pulled the tail light modules, per Mike's suggestion, and found that the two sockets on the right each had a melted contact (looks like a fried egg). Neither was touching its respective neighbor and, as I said, since the episode of throwing my golf clubs into my trunk a week ago and the single episode I described, I have had no further problem. After I scraped the rim of melted metal from around each of the involved contacts and replacing the module into the taillight assembly, the stoplights work no differently. I think I will remove the trunk liner and see what the harnesses look like. As I had said, the problem happened once when I had loaded my trunk with heavy wine cases and the other time was when I threw in the golf clubs)

BTW, I have been using Silverstar headlights bulbs since you recommended them to me a year ago. I use Sylvania bulbs for the stoplights (in 16 years---130K miles---, I have only had to replace one stoplight bulb. Wish I could remember if it was in that right module.....!)

KenPS Are the individual sockets in the tail light modules replaceable or must one purchase a whole new plastic module with the three sockets?

PPS Have you found that Sylvania replacement stoplight bulbs cause this problem and should OEM bulbs be used?

PPS And the last question is whether I would be better off purchasing a used set of modules, (I am trying to sort through whether the issue is a problem with the bulbs or just aging of the sockets...), or whether I should purchase new ones?

Modified by kdkrone at 7:29 PM 10/23/2008
Modified by kdkrone at 10:32 PM 10/23/2008

[kdkrone]

New wrinkle which suggests it is the cable from the starter to the battery or the starter.

The problem surprised me today while in line for gas at Costco. I turned off the engine and when I went to turn it on, click-click-click-click-click-click-click-click, etc. The engine did not turn over. Plenty of juice for the radio, A/C, headlights, but no OK on the instrument panel LED. The battery is 12V across the terminals. I was able to jump it and it started up right away. I drove home, cleaned the terminals and cable ends. Same click-click-click-click-click-click-click-click-click-click-click without starting.

So.... does the cable to the starter develop faults so that it has difficulty carrying current? Does this sound like anything specific to anyone?

BTW, please don't ignore the questions about the bulbs above...

ThanksKen K

[Q451990]

The socket assembly is typically replaced as a unit. I think they're fairly cheap... maybe $20 each from Joe these days?

I would check for a loose connection at the battery itself...

In terms of load testing, you would typically do that at a shop, or at a parts store. They use a piece of test equimpemt that monitors voltage while adding a progressively larger load.

If you want to try with your multimeter, you should look for about 12V with the car off... some drop during cranking - maybe 10 or 11V? (look while an assistant turns the key) and then about 14V with the car at idle.

It is very common for bad batteries to check 12V under no load or a light load, but drop off substantially when trying to start the car.

Cable problems aren't common, but with anything this old - who knows? Especially if corrosion has been allowed to accumulate around the battery.

Heath

[kdkrone]

Heath,

I believe that you are correct. While the battery measured 12V before cranking, it dropped to 4-5V while cranking. I will bring it back--it was an Interstate battery and only 24 months old.

As a general test of the alternator, with the engine running, turning everything on did not seem to change the intensity of the headlights at all. I will run it by a mechanic to check it out.

WRT to the cost of the socket module, it is only $31. I ordered a replacement from Joe.

ThanksKen K

[maxnix]

2 -3 years is standard battery life.

[kdkrone]

I was used to 5+ years for a battery, but I guess that was because I was only putting about 5-6K miles on the car until two years ago.

(In general, how many miles of service can one expect from the alternator before it needs to be rebuilt or replaced?)

ThanksKen

[qship96]

At 219,400 my original alternator is still going strong in my 96Q. I think it has lasted this long due to my annual engine degreasing, lack of any aftermarket stereo crap, replacing batteries at or before time of need and general excellent build quality.

[Q451990]

I have found 2 years to be about average for battery life. Alternator life varies greatly depending on how much you baby the electrical system.

Heath

[qship96]

For me, the Genuine Infiniti battery last almost EXACTLY 3 years here in Maryland {this is based off of the 4 genuine Infiniti batteries that have passed thru my engine compartment} We shall see if the AGM based aftermarket battery in there now fares any better.

[kdkrone]

qship96,

Thanks for the posts. Do you take your car in for steam cleaning of the engine or do you just run it through a self-service car wash and blast it with the wand?

Glad to hear about the potential long life of the alternator. I am rather surprised about the short life of batteries. I am used to at least double the lives stated here (5-6 years) on most of our cars, but perhaps that is because they are kept in a garage and the major problem has been heat in central California, not the cold. I don't know.

KK

[qship96]

I use an aerosol degreaser{Gunk} then blast it at the self serve carwash,then go for a long drive to allow the engine heat to dry everything.

Heat kills batteries....be sure to use a battery wrap if you no longer have the OEM battery case-search old thread of mine on batteries from earlier this year for more information

[kdkrone]

Heat kills batteries....be sure to use a battery wrap if you no longer have the OEM battery case-search old thread of mine on batteries from earlier this year for more information

My brain fails me... I did not remember that there was a battery case when I purchased my new '92. I did a search on battery wrap and came up with thousands of references, then tried a search with battery wrap and your name, again coming up with thousands. (even your name alone comes up with more than 3000 posts--you are clearly one of the backbones here!)

Could you summarize? I find it hard to believe that a 1/4 in ch of thermal wrap can do much to keep heat from reaching the battery, especially when the top of the battery is exposed, but I am willing to learn...

Ken K

[maxnix]

Most of it is a radiant barrier.

[Q45tech]

Melted rear sockets are so common [even with the best of bulbs] [after changing mine twice] I have added a spare set to my multi thousand dollars worth of home spare inventory.......just a matter of when as with every single component.

I kept believing the starter was invincible until 310k.

[qship96]

[QUOTE=kdkrone]

My brain fails me... I did not remember that there was a battery case when I purchased my new '92. I did a search on battery wrap and came up with thousands of references, then tried a search with battery wrap and your name, again coming up with thousands. (even your name alone comes up with more than 3000 posts--you are clearly one of the backbones here!)

Could you summarize? I find it hard to believe that a 1/4 in ch of thermal wrap can do much to keep heat from reaching the battery, especially when the top of the battery is exposed, but I am willing to learn...

Google "Thermo tec 13200" to see the inexpensive battery wrap I used. Like Brian posted, it reflects radiant heat away from the battery-should be more effective than the black plastic original case that came from the factory.

[kdkrone]

Heat kills batteries....be sure to use a battery wrap if you no longer have the OEM battery case-search old thread of mine on batteries from earlier this year for more information

My brain fails me... I did not remember that there was a battery case when I purchased my new '92. I did a search on battery wrap and came up with thousands of references, then tried a search with battery wrap and your name, again coming up with thousands. (even your name alone comes up with more than 3000 posts--you are clearly one of the backbones here!)

Could you summarize? I find it hard to believe that a 1/4 in ch of thermal wrap can do much to keep heat from reaching the battery, especially when the top of the battery is exposed, but I am willing to learn...

Ken K

[qship96]

Google "Thermo Tec 13200" to see the heat insulating battery wrap that can be used for those who have either lost their OEM plastic battery case along the way, or who have replaced their original battery with a different size one and therefor the OEM battery case no longer fits well.

[maxnix]

The black plastic OEM case is cosmetic only in reality.