erratic steering on G37S

[geoff_diamond]

Hi everyone. Long-time reader, new member. I was hoping someone here would be able to point me in the right direction since Infiniti service doesn't seem to want to.

I've got a six-month-old G37S which has, within the last eight weeks or so, become increasingly erratic and unruly on the road. It's not pulling in any one direction or another - but, rather it's just all over the place; as if the steering is continually becoming looser and looser. It's akin to when you hit a rut or uneven patch in a roadway - the car sort of takes the wheel out of your hands. My local dealership tells me there's nothing wrong with it - but, they don't drive it every day, I do.

I'm a great driver, but an awful mechanic. Anyone got any thoughts on where I could start troubleshooting?

Thanks everyone!

[Tampa G35 Sedan 6MT]

First question I want to ask is do you have 4WAS (4 Wheel active steer) ?

If you do their could be a problem with (what ever controls the rear steering) and this could be the problem.

Im sure Steve will be around with some more Q's and A's

DJ

[geoff_diamond]

Woops... meant to address that in the original post. I do NOT have the 4WAS (heard too many bad things about it in reviews before buying the car).

So, hopefully that should make it a bit easier to diagnose

[Tampa G35 Sedan 6MT]

ok... Maybe one of the sway bars is disconnected or broken....

Have you ever hit like a really large pot hole or curb?

This would give you massive amounts of body roll around curves.

Dose the car look like an old caddy when you are going around a turn then you have a sway bar problem

Google sway bars and you will see what they are and what they do

DJ

[zozoka1212]

There was a TSB for all Infiniti. Not sure if you can find it. It wasn't specific to the models. Basically it was asking the technicians to tighten up a little all the rods,etc.

zozo

[gwoods]

my money is on loose upper control arm or upper control arm ball joint

take it to a different dealership if you have to ride in the car with the mechanic do it

Make sure you post back so I know if I am right

AND WELCOME to NICO!

[soul_hfk]

i would get it to the dealer ASAPand welcome to NICO

[Tampa G35 Sedan 6MT]

What ever it is... It isn't safe to be driving it like that!

DJ

[Sentientbydesign]

I would be it's your alignment.

If they've done an alignment on it and it's still producing the same problems, my next check would be the tires.

I'm not sure how much you drive, but these tires usually don't last long.

My first set of worn tires caused some very erratic pulling when I hit potholes or bumps. New tires and an alignment made things much better.

To better clarify. Does it feel like your steering is loose or like the wheels are steering you instead of the othe way around?

Loose steering would be you turning the wheel and the car not moving or moving eventually.

[geoff_diamond]

I've got about 12K miles on the car - the tires look to be in fine shape to the untrained eye, but, that's not to say there isn't something going on with them.

I did read up on the TSB relating to steering issues for all Infiniti model numbers (dated 10/9/08) - VERY interesting stuff - seems to describe my problem fairly accurately.

I've got a service appointment (again) in the morning and will be sure to keep everyone posted on what I learn! Thanks, again, for all your help!

[geoff_diamond]

I would be it's your alignment.

If they've done an alignment on it and it's still producing the same problems, my next check would be the tires.

I'm not sure how much you drive, but these tires usually don't last long.

My first set of worn tires caused some very erratic pulling when I hit potholes or bumps. New tires and an alignment made things much better.

To better clarify. Does it feel like your steering is loose or like the wheels are steering you instead of the othe way around?

Loose steering would be you turning the wheel and the car not moving or moving eventually.

Oh, and in reference to the above: definitely feels like the car is driving me, rather than the other way around. If what you describe as "loose steering" is actually the definition of it, I would say that is not my problem. In fact, it seems as if there is too little effort needed to turn the wheel. At least, less than I remember there being when I bought the car.

[notalk]

I've got about 12K miles on the car - the tires look to be in fine shape to the untrained eye, but, that's not to say there isn't something going on with them.

I did read up on the TSB relating to steering issues for all Infiniti model numbers (dated 10/9/08) - VERY interesting stuff - seems to describe my problem fairly accurately.

Thanks for this lead. The TSB, if anyone's interested, is ITB08-046. I have complained of "wander" since day one. My "old" dealer won't check the alignment, claiming a slight curb kiss when pulling into a parking space at less than 5 mph caused my complaint (even though I first complained prior to any of this).

I assumed I had too much toe out, possibly caused by overtightening the front axle hold down straps during shipping. I figured a good alignment after getting replacement tires would cure this. Please let us know what your dealer says/does. I'll ask my "new" dealer to keep an eye on this TSB.

Quote »I've got a service appointment (again) in the morning and will be sure to keep everyone posted on what I learn! Thanks, again, for all your help![/quote]

[Sentientbydesign]

Oh, and in reference to the above: definitely feels like the car is driving me, rather than the other way around. If what you describe as "loose steering" is actually the definition of it, I would say that is not my problem. In fact, it seems as if there is too little effort needed to turn the wheel. At least, less than I remember there being when I bought the car.

I don't want to come off as being the divine dictionary, but that's always been my understanding.

I had the same issues with my G35 when I first got it. That was one of the reasons I was thinking about selling it. New tires and an alignment made those problems go away.

Ask them about the TSB and also ask them to check your tires.

[Jacko3]

Also, don't forget to tell them to retorque every bolt on the control arms.

[gwoods]

Thanks for this lead. The TSB, if anyone's interested, is ITB08-046. I have complained of "wander" since day one. My "old" dealer won't check the alignment, claiming a slight curb kiss when pulling into a parking space at less than 5 mph caused my complaint (even though I first complained prior to any of this).

I assumed I had too much toe out, possibly caused by overtightening the front axle hold down straps during shipping. I figured a good alignment after getting replacement tires would cure this. Please let us know what your dealer says/does. I'll ask my "new" dealer to keep an eye on this TSB.

"bump steering" is normally caused by bad ball joints or a loose control arm. The upper fails 2/1 vs the lower.

My money is still on upper ball joint or upper control arm

[notalk]

"bump steering" is normally caused by bad ball joints or a loose control arm. The upper fails 2/1 vs the lower.

My money is still on upper ball joint or upper control arm

This isn't bump steer. It's wander, where the car wants to go left or right for no cause or reason. Usually, this is an indication of toe out, where an uneven road surface will cause the car to start into a turn. Or, tires which have worn enough to cause the car to want to go into a turn. The FM chassis is particularly susceptible as Nissan wants zero toe or slight toe out to overcome the natural tendancy of the FM chassis to hesitate to start a turn.

You might be right with the cure. But, we are not talking bump steer here.

P.S. The poster suggesting new tires (with an even tread face) and a good alignment as a cure might be right on with this suggestion. I know I would get concerned if new tires and an alignment did not get rid of my wander.

[gwoods]

It's akin to when you hit a rut or uneven patch in a roadway - the car sort of takes the wheel out of your hands.

notalk, that is not something an alignment can fix.

The wandering at speed, could be tires or alignment

[gwoods]

I've got about 12K miles on the car - the tires look to be in fine shape to the untrained eye, but, that's not to say there isn't something going on with them.

I did read up on the TSB relating to steering issues for all Infiniti model numbers (dated 10/9/08) - VERY interesting stuff - seems to describe my problem fairly accurately.

I've got a service appointment (again) in the morning and will be sure to keep everyone posted on what I learn! Thanks, again, for all your help!

SO??????

[Sentientbydesign]

notalk, that is not something an alignment can fix.

The wandering at speed, could be tires or alignment

I disagree. I had very similar symptoms and mine went away with new tires and an alignment.

Could be different causes with similar symptoms, but I still think it's out of alignment.

[SVTCOBRA]

I disagree. I had very similar symptoms and mine went away with new tires and an alignment.

Could be different causes with similar symptoms, but I still think it's out of alignment.

Have to agree with Nate.A bad alignment can make a car squirrelly as hell. Sounds like something may have come loose.....

I would find another dealer if possible.

Or, get the tech to ride with you if you can easily reproduce the problem.

Actually, if it were me, I would put it up on ramps and start checking to see if something came loose....

And, welcome to NICO!

[SteveTheTech]

Welcome to the group!

I know that the tires cannot be traditionally rotated but have you had them cross rotated in the 12K that you have on the car?

The alignment and tires are covered (I think) for 12mo/12,000 mi so they should have warrantied pretty much any complaint you have.

ITB08-046 pertains to road crown and lead conditions that have been raised by owners due to the car changing lane in a specified amount of time. This is something I have noticed a lot of the members with Ms complain about more than many other Infiniti members. Even if your alignment is perfect (which very few are) and the tires have been in the same position as they came with they will cause ride comfort issues.

Since I am not able to drive your car you will need to walk me through it a bit. You say the steering is feeling funny, can you be more specific as to what exactly it is doing.

If this were my car and I had to give it to someone else to fix I would ask if they have the Hunter Straighttrack Road Force Balancer (the most amazing tire balancer) and I would want to have an alignment done and want to see the numbers. If you have a scanner handy, post it and we will review it

I highly doubt it is a mechanical part issue, I do not think it is any of the ball joints, as you would notice a noise or vibration in the steering wheel before most ride issues were noticed. Especially when the suspension/steering is as tight as it is in the 37.

Also, don't forget to tell them to retorque every bolt on the control arms.

Please don't go to the dealer and Tell them what to do, you may not agree with your advisor but they do know they product, I am not bashing you Jacko that is just a bit of a pet peeve of mine.

[geoff_diamond]

Welcome to the group!

I know that the tires cannot be traditionally rotated but have you had them cross rotated in the 12K that you have on the car?

The alignment and tires are covered (I think) for 12mo/12,000 mi so they should have warrantied pretty much any complaint you have.

ITB08-046 pertains to road crown and lead conditions that have been raised by owners due to the car changing lane in a specified amount of time. This is something I have noticed a lot of the members with Ms complain about more than many other Infiniti members. Even if your alignment is perfect (which very few are) and the tires have been in the same position as they came with they will cause ride comfort issues.

Since I am not able to drive your car you will need to walk me through it a bit. You say the steering is feeling funny, can you be more specific as to what exactly it is doing.

If this were my car and I had to give it to someone else to fix I would ask if they have the Hunter Straighttrack Road Force Balancer (the most amazing tire balancer) and I would want to have an alignment done and want to see the numbers. If you have a scanner handy, post it and we will review it

I highly doubt it is a mechanical part issue, I do not think it is any of the ball joints, as you would notice a noise or vibration in the steering wheel before most ride issues were noticed. Especially when the suspension/steering is as tight as it is in the 37.

Please don't go to the dealer and Tell them what to do, you may not agree with your advisor but they do know they product, I am not bashing you Jacko that is just a bit of a pet peeve of mine.

Anyway, car's still at the shop - so, no updates as of yet. I don't believe they've rotated the tires at all (they're directional, right?). As far as walking you through the problem - it feels just like hitting a rut... I'm not sure how else to explain it? I mean, I'm not sure if an alignment issue would cause steering issues in both directions, would it? I was always under the impression that if your vehicle was misaligned, it would only wander one way or another. The only other bit of pertinent information that I can think of is that the problem doesn't really seem to creep up when I'm deep in a turn - it's only when I'm driving straight or just barely off-center (ie - changing lanes).

So, anyway, I'll definitely let everyone know what's going on!

[Tampa G35 Sedan 6MT]

Keep us posted... You have a lot of use scratching our heads on this one lol



DJ

[Sentientbydesign]

Please don't go to the dealer and Tell them what to do, you may not agree with your advisor but they do know they product, I am not bashing you Jacko that is just a bit of a pet peeve of mine.

I'm sure the SAs at your dealership are top notch, but be forewarned that I've dealt with a large handful who know very little about the vehicles they service (or advise about).

My parts buddy has better information than the SAs at the dealership I go to.

Geoff,

A common misconception is that the alignment of your car only deals with one wheel being "crooked". Some also understand that all 4 can be "crooked". But the truth is that you have 3 major angles per wheel and a plethora of secondary angles to deal with.

If your front wheels are both slightly outward, both tires are "fighting" to go in their respective directions. If one is given a small nudge in it's direction, the car will veer in that direction easily.

I won't get into caster or camber angles because those are more complicated and probably not relevant to your issue.

[geoff_diamond]

Okay. So, got the car back yesterday afternoon. Naturally, my secondary display now insists that it's 36-degrees and Icy at all times - but, that's an entirely separate issue.

So, my SA told me that the alignment was off and has been adjusted and also said that they made some adjustments to the camber (I'm not sure on which wheels, or in which directions). All in all, I would say that the problem feels a bit better, perhaps 30-40% better if I can try to quantify these things. But, I swear, it still doesn't feel like it did when I bought it.

Anyway - I appreciate all the help that everyone here was able to offer and I'll certainly keep everyone informed of any future developments!

[Sentientbydesign]

If your tires are already worn from the poor alignment, then putting the suspension back into spec isn't going to make the symptoms go away completely. Maybe rotating the tires might help?

[audtatious]

I doubt it's a tire problem as I have the same issue and will be taking it in soon. I have relatively no problem on most roads but if you get on one that has truckers ruts then the car is all over the place. Mine was doing it slightly a month or so ago and has gotten much worse. It's time for a tire balance anyway so it's a good time to take it in (8k miles).

[SteveTheTech]

Hey Matt,

Have you had the tires cross rotated?(I'm guessing not since you only have 8K on it) Run your hand over the inside edge of the tires in a reverse facing direction and let me know if you feel unevenness. I am pretty curious about this. I seriously think it is a tire related concern and I am wondering if the tires (at least the fronts) should be crossed in shorter increments.

[audtatious]

No visual nor physical imperfections with the tire. I just cranked the wheel and inspected/felt the inside of each tire and they "pass the test". No cupping, no unevenness no additional wear on the inside at all. Tires look to be doing pretty well.

[gwoods]

Okay. So, got the car back yesterday afternoon. Naturally, my secondary display now insists that it's 36-degrees and Icy at all times - but, that's an entirely separate issue.

So, my SA told me that the alignment was off and has been adjusted and also said that they made some adjustments to the camber (I'm not sure on which wheels, or in which directions). All in all, I would say that the problem feels a bit better, perhaps 30-40% better if I can try to quantify these things. But, I swear, it still doesn't feel like it did when I bought it.

Anyway - I appreciate all the help that everyone here was able to offer and I'll certainly keep everyone informed of any future developments!

as much as I hate being wrong glad your car is fixed.

Just curious which tires does your car have on it? The Goodyear RS-A's SUCK!!!

I have Yokohama S drives on my car now and I really love how smooth they are!

My Hemi Ram's upper control arm ball joints failed at 30k miles and it felt exactly like what you described. Wander, vibration, sometimes the wheel would jerk out of my hand when I went over a small bump ect. I wonder if the ball joints are serviceable on your G? Maybe they need some lube?