Ergh! Stupid Q (me)!

[jimbyjimb]

Was doing my chain guides today, just got the parts. I zip-tied the chains tight...or so I THOUGHT! The right side chain skipped so now I have to pull off the cam cover. Rough. Turned it by hand and it skipped enough for interference. At least it's the easy one. As for the original chain guides-every one was spiffy, except the lower driver's side, which was completely disintegrated. Found half of it, the other half is AWOL, I.E. in the pan. I checked the straight-side passenger plastic guide and it was perfect. Tried to break it by hand and it is still very strong. It's also very not on the car anymore. But anywho, looks like a pan r/r is in my future, probably late summer. Allen-head bolts are the stupidest invention of all time, I had to easy out two of them and beat an over-sized allen into a third. Thank god Joe's kit comes with new bolts.

[oldmako]

I sure am glad that my BarbieQ doesn't have those freakin' plastic chain guides. That's a job I would not look forward to.

Good luck. Let us know what you find in that pan!

[Haitian_King]

Was doing my chain guides today, just got the parts. I zip-tied the chains tight...or so I THOUGHT! The right side chain skipped so now I have to pull off the cam cover. Rough. Turned it by hand and it skipped enough for interference. At least it's the easy one. As for the original chain guides-every one was spiffy, except the lower driver's side, which was completely disintegrated. Found half of it, the other half is AWOL, I.E. in the pan. I checked the straight-side passenger plastic guide and it was perfect. Tried to break it by hand and it is still very strong. It's also very not on the car anymore. But anywho, looks like a pan r/r is in my future, probably late summer. Allen-head bolts are the stupidest invention of all time, I had to easy out two of them and beat an over-sized allen into a third. Thank god Joe's kit comes with new bolts.

Precisely why I was afraid to do it myself.

[maxnix]

You really need to get the bits and pices out of the sump now unless you are not planning to drive it until the summer. One thing you may not know is there is very little clearance between the oil pick up and the sump. Also, ground up plastic is perfect fro clogging the oil pump, seizing the engine. I am sure you don't want that to occur. Great opportunity to replace engine mounts (including 3rd motor/transmission mount). Sure would hate to see you efforts go to waste.

[jimbyjimb]

Nope. When this job's done I'm driving it. I'll do the pan sometime in July/August when I have the time to do it. If the motor blows then I'll part the car. Should've been smart and bought the Taurus. I didn't know about this chain issue until after I bought the car. Had I known beforehand I probably would never have bought it. That's what happens when I don't do enough research beforehand.

[maxnix]

Man, almost any crippled Q will drive better than a 2 year old Taurus.

Oh well.

[Q45tech]

Interesting to note that the 4.6 Furd Crown Vic engine has guide failures also.

http://www.crownvic.net/ubbthr...21431h ... hr...age=1

In fact all the common Q problems seem common on Furd also

"just tore a RUNNING 03 PI down with 125K, w/sewing machine noise. Both guides were broken and flopping around, the tensioner arms were worn completely through, and the tensioners were being eaten alive by the chains.

Had a 2002 Pi last year with the same noise. Had 120K. ".................."If the timing chain has worn through the tensioner arm into the tensioner piston, remove the oil pan from the engine and clean the debris from the oil pickup tube. "

Sound familiar?

But don't think GM/Caddy is much better in 4.6 Read this:http://www.tomorrowstechnician....aspx

[maxnix]

SVT have a known problem not acknowledged by Ford of breaking cam lobes.

Let's not even talk about the spitting spark plug problem, likewise unacknowledged.

[jimbyjimb]

The Taurus SHO is a Yamaha V-6, or V-8 later models. The fact on that is the Taurus SHO V-6 is probably one of the greatest engines ever made. The things last forever, even when people needlessly beat the snot out of them. The weak links on those are the clutches and the auto trannies. The thing that sucks about them is parts are harder to find since they were a pretty limited production and now 13 years old. I just don't like anything about front wheel drive. If they were rear I'd have jumped for sure. I hate waiting on my oil pan, but I really have no choice. Need a car for my job, and the cash is tight for a while. I may not have to wait so long, but it'll be at least a month. I'd like to do it right and put new tension rods up as well, and all the mounts in polyurethane/graphite. I love this car, it's by far the nicest I've owned. But it is also by far the most expensive to fix. I doubt an engine that's gone 180,000 miles with crappy guides is about to fry itself within another 5,000. By the time I'm ready for my next oil change the pan will come off.

[maxnix]

http://v8sho.com/SHO/CamshaftSprocketFailure.htm

[bullittandy]

[QUOTE=maxnix]SVT have a known problem not acknowledged by Ford of breaking cam lobes.QUOTE]

I know that one!!!!! I used to own a 96 Taurus SHO. It was a very nice car and after I replaced the mufflers with flowmasters and the airbox with a K&N it sounded mean as hell!

Well, drving along one day at 72K and engine stops-spun cam sprocket. The cams sprocket was a interference fit and the camshaft itself was expanded into the sprocket by a machine pulling a wire with a steel ball attached through the cam-kind of like a concrete anchor.

Turns out it doesn't work!! I bought a engine and transmission out of a 98 SHO and had the cam sprockets welded and that engine has about 130K miles on now (sold it to my brother in law).

I'm part of a class action lawsuit and I'm waiting for a letter some day from Ford telling me I have $5000 credit towards the puchase of a new Ford.

[jimbyjimb]

The V8's aren't even close to the V6's, in all departments.

[craigztoyz]

Not to thread jack, but I have been building SHO engine since 93. 89-95 3.0/3.2 v6's are one of the 4 baddest engines ever made(LT5 from ZR1 is in there too). Handle boost great, and will hold 8K all day, but you need to swap it into a rearwheel drive car for the ultimate. Fits like a glove in a FC. OK back to the postI need to do my guides soon too, gotta find the parts, havent done a search yet. Drain all you can of the oil, and flush out what you can, it will help, but when I pulled my pan to 'modify' it, found a lot of my chain guides in the pan. But drove the engine for a while before pulling it, so I know it ran great.

[Q45tech]

The only V8 engine trouble free internally is the 90-94 LS400 but you must change oil, timing belts, water pump, and starter.............now external engine accessories are another situation. Powersteering pump uses vacuum so PS fluid gets sucked into engine, misc vauum hoses and egr valves, hoses, spark plug wires [10], distributer [2], coils [2], and rotor buttons [2].

In 220k you will spend should spend double what a Q45 chain guide replacement cost.

[maxnix]

I'm part of a class action lawsuit and I'm waiting for a letter some day from Ford telling me I have $5000 credit towards the puchase of a new Ford.

But Andy, which Ford would you spend $5K on? Always wished I had an Excursion with the Diesel, but 5 days of use per year doesn't justify it.

[maxnix]

The only V8 engine trouble free internally is the 90-94 LS400 but you must change oil, timing belts, water pump, and starter

In 220k you will spend should spend double what a Q45 chain guide replacement cost.

I would suggest the 1994-1996 VH45DE is superior internally, as is the 1997 - 2001 VH41DE, if for the reason of no damn timing belts alone.

I know on the SC400 there is a problem where the PS pump goes and it takes out the alternator below with it.

[jimbyjimb]

Small known facts while on the subject of engines-a 100% factory stock Studebaker V-8 shortblock can take well over 30lbs in turbo boost all day long while revving up to 7 or higher. The stock Stude has forged internals and the beefiest block I've ever seen. Some people bore them out .140. The factroy rotating assembly with the most horsepower used to be the 301 Stude in Jim Lange's car, close to 1000 HP with lower 30's in boost pressure from twin turbos into a home-made intake and modded R series heads. A 100% stock rotating assembly. Cast rings. I don't know if it still holds the record or not. Buick engineers, when designing the turbo V-6 of great fame, copied alot of the 1948 Studebaker blueprints on head design and valve angles. On the Stude there are 7 bolts around each cylinder on the head. While engine has 2-bolt mains these are some BIG bolts. That has to be the cheapest engine to boost since no internal modifications are necessary. They have huge pushrods, solid-lifters, heavy shaft-mount rockers and timing gears. The only weak points on the thing are the tiny intake valves, which is an easy fix, and the short 1.4:1 rocker ratio which is a bit more difficult to change. The thing weighs in at 800lbs, almost 200lbs more than any iron big block. It was the first production small-block V-8 in the 1951 Champion. Small block, at that time, meaning the mains were external from the block. By original terminology definition the Big Chev is a small block and the new LS series are big blocks. For those who don't know, displacement has nothing to do with big or small block definition, it's purely based on the engine's construction. The Stude is a remarkable beast, and many Stude owners have 250k plus on the odometer on stock engines with no rebuilds. The oddest performance giant I've ever seen. I loved mine, shouldn't have sold it.

[maxnix]

Yes, the Studebaker was strong, but oh so heavy as no thin wall casting was used.

You'll come to appreciate the VH45DE the more you know it, I am sure.

[jimbyjimb]

I hope so. I really like this network of support, it reminds me alot of the Stude guys. It's great when car nerds stick together. Any mechanic is stupid if he refuses help, and this site is SPACTACULAR! Another interesting thing on the Stude's is the original 232 in the Champion is said to the the greatest of them all, in that it is the heaviest and thickest block. I doubt anyone has tried but some hardcore Stude nuts guess the thing, in theory, could handle 60lbs of boost pressure. That's indycar boost. I wish I were a millionaire, I'd do that in a second. The built 289's rev up past 7, which is amazing for an engine designed in the 40's, but imagine the RPM from a cute little 232. 232 is about the same size of the Buick V-6.

[maxnix]

What's intruging about the VH41DE is the bore spacing and diameter is the same as teh VH45DE. Just the stroke and crank are shorter to yield a 4.1L screamer easily capable of 8500rpm based on the VH45DE block. Not useful for a heavy sedan but in a llighter car......

Proabably would work with the not so robust lower end of the VH41DE block.

[jimbyjimb]

I love talking and thinking about this stuff, but the sad thing is I'll never do it. Haha, a 95% stock Q is enough, more than I'll ever need. I dont drive fast but on occasion, and rarely do burnouts to save on wear/tear/tires. I cant wait to have everyhting handled on it this summer. Trouble free luxury with nuts. Hard to beat. The quietest car I've ever been in. I'd like to road course it once, just to try it.