Environmental Dust causing pads not to move properly in kit? Is this possible?

[Daemos]

I drive a 2003 Nissan SER Spec V. It currently has 228xx KM on the engine/body/brakes etc. It's been to all service and suggested nissan maintance.

So I took the car to the dealership today to get my rear brake pads looked at because the mechanics at a local told me the left rear pad is down pretty low.

They told me this, it's caused by environmental dust and conditions and gunk stuck in the caliper causing the pad not to move properly so it WON'T BE COVERED UNDER WARRENTY"

this is off the workorder: "Brake pads - not moving properly in the kit - pads are seizing - caused by environmental dust etc. Calipers are in good shape"

Is that reasonable at all? That makes no sense to me esp when I only have 23K KM on the car, and I had them inspected 9K KM ago and they were at 80% and now the LR is down to about 20% and the RR is down to 40%

So they don't have to cover it under warrenty..sounds fishy IMO.

Someone told me this: "that is just fluff. Moisture and brake dust, road dust, and whatever other nasties build up over time on the stainless inserts. This action prohibits the pads from properly sliding in the stainless mounts. I just ground a bit off of my outter tabs on the pads and they move nice and easy again. I took about .010 off on each side."

I still think it should be covered under warrenty. Stock brake pads on NORMAL driving should not last less than 30K KM esp when the average person drives 25K Km a year.

So they wanted to charge me for 4 brake pads (for the rear) labour and a new hardware kit that's not dirty (although they said they COULD clean it to save me $60) without wanting to cover any of it under warrenty.

Am I being unreasonable thinking this should be covered under warrenty? On top of bitching what else should I do to make sure it gets covered next time I phone into the dealership?

I'm going to call nissan canada first, and see what they will do.

It seems this might affect the front as well as they only have 50% pads left...hmmm wierd
Modified by Daemos at 5:33 AM 4/27/2005

[NISTECH]

Hmm I am not real good with the metric to american distance converstion but I am thinking you have about 10k miles on your car, for a sentra ,yea that does sound like excessive wear. Although we have seen the Z,Quest and Titan/Armada blow through a set of pads in 8k miles [16k KM????]. The enviromental dust suggests you may have picked up something off the road that stuck in your slices, you should not have ground your pads down but rather taken the metal guides out of the carrier and cleaned them with a good brake clean, that would have been sufficent to free them up. This type of repair is a judgement call by the dealer, I dont know how NNA canada consumer affairs is working with customers , but this is something you should be able to get covered. Pads fall under 12months/12k miles here I assume you adjustment period there is 12months/24k KM?

Give nissan a call and see what you can get them to do.

[Daemos]

I'm not very mechnically inclined..so..forgive me

62miles = 100 km

so 23K = around 14.5K miles

The question is WHAT could I have picked up that only really affected 1 pad and the other one not as bad? how could I not of noticed something that would of 'stuck' in my brakes? I clean my car frequently.

I didn't know there was a problem until someone told me. I'm still confused on why it wouldn't be covered under warrenty though? Could you elaborate? Because this is something that SHOULD of been prevented, and I think it's stupid that I drive the same roads, I drive the way I've always driven, and I've taken down lots of my brake pads already. Kinda silly if you ask me.

Oh I've had my car since november of 2002...so my bumper to bumper warrenty is almost up...makes me worried that this is the best dealership in the city

[NISTECH]

You could have picked something up off the road that was spilled by another vehicle, something along those lines. The thing is nissan as do most manufactures of cars and just about any other product like for example your computer or TV only warrant against Mechanical defect or poor workmanship. If say for example you have a power surge and it blows out your computer or your TV. Do you think that the manufacturer of it is going to replace the fried unit? Not likely. Same situation here with your car. If you pick up a foriegn substance off the road and it affects the operation of something on the car the manufacturer isnt going to warranty it as their product did not fail do to poor workmanship it failed do to foriegn influnce, Its just something you dont see when it happens, If a rock hit your windsheild and cracked it you would notice it when it happened and would know the source of what caused it. With the brakes you didnt see it happen so you have no idea what caused it.

I dont know if I explained that very well. But I dont want you thinking I am defending the dealer or nissan in anyway. I am mearly trying to explain their reasoning.

[Daemos]

Just got off the phone with Nissan Canada, talked to 3 diffrent people, spent a LONG time. They wont' cover under warrenty because environmental factors contribute to wear and tear. They are assuming it (the pins) were properly lubercated from factory

WTF? so angry...nissan isn't doing a good job trying to keep someone who's family has bought nothing but nissans for the past 20 years

When you re-install brake pads arn't you supposed to lube all the things like that?

Even if it wasn't properly lubed from the factory, the dealership HAS to make that diagnosis, and Nissan canada cannot do anything

[NISTECH]

Wow I am sorry your goin through this. Unfortunitly Nissan has been getting more and more like this with customers, its sad , then we at the dealer are left to try to handle the customers as their car is typically with us at the time. Usually there is nothing we can do to help as it is all nissans decision. If I were in your shoes I would probably call back and point out that I had bought nissans for the last 20 yrs and have never recieved this kind of service, and that if this is a sign of how nissan will be handling their current and future models ,this will probably be the last one I ever buy , and you will be certian to discourge others of buying them all due to the poor customer service and backing of the product.

This is how you feel right?

[Daemos]

Tried to do that, they still rely on the dealership to make the diagonsis and properly do it. If environmental dust + gunk and other stuff is causing my pads to wear down 3x faster than normal and NOT some factory defect, like someone forgetting to lub the caliper pins PROPERLY, and if it only affects ONE pad, well so be it.

I mean 3 out of 4 pads are fine, how is it just ONE pad is ****ed? The dealership blames it on environmental factors, and nissan canada only has one answer and that's whatever the dealership diagnosis.

I just ordered some Hawk HPS pads, any certain lubercants/cleaners I should use? Anyone have a scan for the brake section of the 2003 sentra shop manual? I want to make sure I'm going do this properly, and better than it was done from factory, I'll have the help of some friends who've done this type of work before.

Hopefully it all goes well...the left rear pad is starting to squeel now, hopefully there is still some there and it's not metal on metal

[NISTECH]

I dont have an 03 manual at my disposal here at home yet. But I stongly stand behind the PBC grease nissan uses to coat the shim side of the pad. It helps prevent brake noise,and does a very good job of it. I have tried other products like the 3M stuff and none seam to be as effective as the PBC. The problem is a bottle of PBC is like $30 US. So most people dont buy it. For the slide pins a good silicone grease will be sufficent as long as the boots are sealed properly. now the important thing to do when changing the pads is to thouroughly clean the slides on the torque member the pads slide on. use some brakleen to soak any build up on them and use a nylon brush [old firm bristle tooth brush]to clean them. Do Not use a wire brush the slides have a special coating on them to make them slide easier. If you use a wire brush you will tear up the coating. Do not apply any grease to these slides be sure they are completly clean other wise the pads will hang up on any caked on substances. There is one type of grease I have seen used on the slides called molly coat,but my opinion on that is your providing a substance that will very easily collect "enviromental dust" . Then your back to square one.

[Daemos]

Where do I buy this PBC grease? I don't care, about I Want this done properly, because it obviously wasn't done properly from factory. What does PBC stand for?

The Left rear is on the indicators now, hopefully it'll last me one week of light driving. The new pads should arrive next week sometime.

Stupid nissan what good is a warrenty if it will never be honored, I should of saved my self lots of money and bought a used car.

[s13sr20chris]

PBC=Pb Culead and copper

good stuffprobs with nissan warranty? go talk to a mitsu owner. you will love nissan!

[NISTECH]

PBC is sold by the dealer.

The problem with your car though they are basically saying it was foriegn influence and not a defect in its parts. They are saying you picked something up off the road and it collected on your brake slides, According to nissan it was not because of their product this happened. Is that a fair assesment? I am leaning toward the dealers diag since they know your car,what I was trying to encourage you to do earlier was put pressure on nissan to get them to pick up the tab on the repair since your car has so few miles on it. In many cases that does happen but it really takes you putting the hammer down. At no point did or do I think there was a problem with the actual assembly of the parts, if there was you would have seen something earlier.

[Daemos]

Any alternatives to the PBC stuff that you can recommend as well? Because the Nissan dealership is 20 min+ away.

And I've put pressure on the dealership but they've done nothing maybe I'll have to take pictures incase anythign really is wrong

the wierd thing is it's only affecting one brake, the other ones seem to be fine.

I acctually contacted Nissan Corporate USA, and they agree with me, however they stated they have to honor Nissan Canada's decision because Canada is not the responsibility of Nissan USA

[NISTECH]

You would need to put the hammer down on nissan canada to get anywhere.

The fact it is only effecting one brake doesnt really prove or disprove anything as its possible that is where what ever caused it landed.

You can order it from one of the online dealers just fill out their parts request from, most of the sites have it and they will respond back to you. just tell them you want a bottle of PBC or ask if the new pads come with packets of it, some of the nissan pad kits have them included in the kits. you will still need to get some silocone grease.

[Daemos]

I'm reading the caliper disassembly diagram.

it wasys I need 2 types of grease for the caliper.

PBC (which is Poly Butyl Cuprsil) grease, and Rubber grease points.

Would a heavy duty brake cleaner work as well as Brakleen?

Do you have any sites where I can buy PBC from? I need a Canadian one so shipping is quicker

I can pick up silicone based grase, and brake cleaner, and Dot 3 fluid (for ABS) from Canadian Tire.

But I'm not too sure what kind of rubber grease they want, and what alternatives I can use to reduce noise on shims.

I found the service manual

There are two types of grease points P which is PBC grease or silicone-based grease point and R which is a rubber grease point, what kind of grease/lube should I use for the rubber part?

Brake Pads SHOULD come with new shims right?

[NISTECH]

no factory pads dont come with shims you swap the old ones over,and now that you mention it The packets of PBC come with the shim kits not the pads.

See if you can pull up your closest Nissan dealer on the net and they should have a parts request form on their site.

The silcone grease is your rubber grease. It goes on the pins that slide into the torque member. You pull the pins out of the boot and coat them with silicone grease. The PBC goes on the back of the pad and the shim sets on the grease. you should also have the rotors turned to remove any glazing.