Eninge Noise (knocking or loud ticking)

[High_Octane]

I have a 1996 Q45 with 165K Miles. Months ago the engine began vibrating under hard acceleration, but only around 5K RPMs. Recently the engine began making a loud ticking sound (as heard inside the vehicle) or a knocking sound with the hood open. It occurred after driving 50 miles that day at highways speeds. The ticking became gradually louder and constant. I drove the car home 10 miles, the engine stalled twice (hadn't stalled previously). I noticed that under acceleration the car lacked power. The car was about 1.5 quarts low on oil. Engine temperatures appeared normal.

I can hear the noise the loudest near the driver's side valve cover and under the oil pan. The sound is a bit louder under the oil pan than by the valve cover. It sounds like a medium force blow of a hammer on metal.

And the worst news of all, I changed the oil and discovered copper colored metal flakes up to 1.5 mm on the oil filter. The drained oil had many very fine metallic pieces that looked like the sparkle in a metallic paint on a car. The car makes the same sound even after the oil change.

I searched for similar issue on Q45 engines, but none sounded exactly like this. Does this sound like rod knock?

I have an mp3 sound file that I can upload. I also have picture of the metallic pieces found. Let me know if you want either file sent.

[Q451990]

Wow... visible metal flakes are never good. I'm afraid your guess may be correct. More member will come along soon to comment that may have more experience with this...

Heath

[Q45tech]

For some reason the 1996 seems more prone to problems...... at least it seems that way since we have seen more than a few with trashed engines........we have a pristine one now awaiting an engine swap.

It always was lack of oil changes and maintenance.

Describe the last 11 years of 90 day/3750 mile oil changes.

Copper only occurs in the bearings so something let go, I'll bet the inside is sludge up.

[StarPD]

Wow... visible metal flakes are never good. I'm afraid your guess may be correct. More member will come along soon to comment that may have more experience with this...

Heath

You should have stopped and taken the car to a reputable technician at the first sign of trouble. Driving for months with a vibrating engine is a sure cure for having too much money. The result is what you are now facing.

If you are mechanically inclined, you'll need to drop the oil pan and then the crankshaft, pulling the main and rod bearings, not a fun job at all. CAREFULLY inspect the crank. If it has ANY damage at all, which is likely considering the fact that you have bearing base material floating around in your engine, odds are that your engine is toast. Cylinder walls will be scored and rings will be chewed up, camshafts will be eroded and lifters, valves and valve guides too. All of these damaged parts will contribute even more metal debris as they self-destruct that will compound and accelerate the problem until it seizes up and possibly destroys the block and/or heads, ruining your opportunity to use them to get a core charge back if you get a rebuilt motor.

If on the other hand, the crank journals are smooth and shiny, and inspection shows no unusual wear or damage to the cam lobes or cylinder walls, you may have dodged a bullet. New bearings and rings, as well as valve guide repair will give you more engine life, but it will never be as reliable or long lived as it would have if maintenance had been performed regularly. If this is the case, the block, heads and all components must be reconditioned, properly prepared and cleaned thoroughly, and that means sterile before re-assembly in a clean dust and wind-free environment. Clean all components with kerosene first, then hot soapy water, and rinse well and dry immediately, then coat all parts with oil. This must be done all at one time to prevent abrasive dust from getting on parts and inside the engine, or causing rust on unprotected parts, where it will cause exactly the same problem you have now.

If major components are shot, you'll need a new long block, or a good used motor. If you lack the tools and instruments , and the skill and experience to do this properly, you'll need to have a good mechanic do it for you. Have him replace the motor with a known good used one or remove and re-install all the accessories on a new long block assembly.

Other members may be able to recommend a good tech or business that will treat you right and is reputable.

None of these solutions will be cheap or easy.

For all other new and/or inexperienced members reading here, this is a classic example of how oil is cheaper than parts.

[Q45tech]

Finding a good 1996 engine will be harder than you think, because so few sold.

We had to order on from Japan to rehab a similar 96..........took 2 months to find and ship and arrive.

[StarPD]

Finding a good 1996 engine will be harder than you think, because so few sold.

We had to order on from Japan to rehab a similar 96..........took 2 months to find and ship and arrive.

Well, Marietta isn't exactly next door to Orlando, but it's not across country either. If he can find a way to get the car to you, I'd suggest he do that and let you do what has to be done. At least then he'll be sure of being treated right and not taken advantage of by an unscrupulous or inexperienced shop or technician.

[High_Octane]

I am the second owner and have used synthetic oil changing it every 5-6K miles. I did have to replace many hoses under the plenum 1.5 years ago and some hoses were completely plugged. Yes the engine had sludge then. I have to give some of the credit to the first owner (first 100 K) , but to do it all over agian, I would change the oil every 4K miles. Oil is much less expensive. Lesson learned!

I think StarPD is right that the engine is Toast. I am not up for re-building the engine. I guess I made that decision a few months ago, not getting the vibration evaluated. Your advice is appreciated. Your description reminds me why I am not up for an engine re-build.

I found a junk yard with a 1996 Q45 engine with 87K miles on it. It comes with a 30 day guarantee. I was considering pulling my engine. Getting the junk yard engine and replacing any plenum hoses, alternator, MAF sensor, etc. that were put on my existing engine in the last two years and put new plugs in the junkyard engine. Install the new engine and see what happens. I will only have to spend my time and very little money.

What are the chances that I will get a good junk yard engine (50/50)? How long does it take a professional mechanic to pull the engine (I will figure it will take me at least twice as long)? I have a buddy's engine hoist and his guidance (he's pulled many engines). I won't ask him to pull the engine, just advice.

I would like to just get a couple more years out of the car. I have been looking at new and used cars and it makes me miss my fun to drive Q45, inspiring me to get it running again.

[maxnix]

If it is out of the car, look at the varnish under the valve covers or in the oil add tube with an LED penlight.

Count of all under plenum hoses, valve cover gaskets, thermostat, everything that is easiest to get to while it is out. New heater hoses and radiator hoses too.


Modified by maxnix at 8:12 AM 2/17/2009

[ScottJackson]

if the motor is in the car, look under the oil fill cap. If it's clean, then most likely the rest of the motor is pretty clean.

[bullittandy]

An engine with 87K miles has about 100K left-give or take 30K due to maintainence. If you have a choice of 96 engines then use the miles and cleanliness of engine to make your choice.

[ScottJackson]

Seems like about all junkyard engines are "low mile" engines. Personally, I would be suspicious of a 87K mile claim on that motor. It's just that it always seems like all the motors in the junkyards are between 40K miles and 90K miles with all the 40K mile ones being from '99 and newer and the mileage goes up in a linear fashion in relation to age. It's possible that all these cars were driven for few miles until they were junked, but I doubt it. I'd say a lot of junkyards just know what year car the motor came from and tag it with a mileage number that's low but believable.

[Q45tech]

Unless one sees the totalled car and supervises the extraction.

The 1996 engine we got from Japan looks better than pristine almost like brand new..........yet it was used in something............maybe a lab/test car.

[Q45denver]

Shop around and make sure you get a warranty on parts and labor.

[High_Octane]

Thank you to everyone for providing advice on what to consider when replacing an engine.

[Jesda]

Its a 1996 Q45 with 165k. At this point, the transmission is set to go next. I suggest disposing of the vehicle or parting it out and finding something else to drive.

[silkysmoothyjud]

Drunk, but in my experience, ITS a freakin injector (coil pack, fouled spark plug(s)) going bad......we hope....Gotta wait till that Bioooootch fails all the way; then start pulling injector wires to see what is failing. Your car would not run with rod knock.....Right? My Q did this "tick, knock" crap from a bank during each and every injector failure: knock sensors trying to protect the motor causing "horsepower failure" due to missing. The missing subsequently caused KS retarding idle....ya think????

[maxnix]

Finding a good 1996 engine will be harder than you think, because so few sold.

We had to order on from Japan to rehab a similar 96..........took 2 months to find and ship and arrive.

Interesting as I was never aware that JDM did not have the automatic Intake Camshaft advance that was abandoned for the American market and mandantory OBD II in 1996.