Engine Swaps? What's the deal?

[Kenrik]

Ok so people are always talking about swaping in a SR or a RB... JDM engines that you can't just go to Autozone and easily get a part for... Now forgive me for my ignorance but what engine did the Z32 have in it? will it fit in a 240? what about the new Z ? i'm not well versed in all the Nissan engines I just know the ones most people talk about on these forums.. What USDM engines besides the KA can actually be put in a 240?

[TheOne]

some have put the VG30 (Z32 engine, 3.0L V6) in a 240sx, they sorta cram it in there,lol(its allready crammed in the Z32), some are also goin to do it later on.as for the Z engine, i dunno of anybody, that is if you wanna stay with nissan engine, if not then there's the 4.5L V8 from toyota, or some 302,305,350, lt1,ls1......blablabla american engines.

[Kenrik]

Well I was just checking and you can get a VG30TT for cheap on ebay! why don't more people do it? I understand it's hard to work on... but it seems worth it compaired to the RB26... ?

only $1100 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...ZWDVW

[One_Love]

damn only 1100 but how much would all the little parts cost to actually pull it off, i personally wouldnt go with a rb26 if you are on a tight budget, parts will cost a lot if something goes wrong

[Kenrik]

Well what's so interesting is that there are plenty on ebay for about 1k... it must be hard to pull it off or more people would do it right? I mean it says it's 800lbs so it weighs what? 50lbs more then an RB?

[One_Love]

thats true, is it bigger in size compared to a rb26

[dft24ds]

you also have to take into consideration the custom crossmembers, motormounts,driveshaft..(etc) thats a lot of work when you can get a "kit" so to say from TopHatPerformance.com for the RB. Now I know you have to do the same with an RB, but have you ever looked at the VG30dett motors? There a ***** to work on as opposed to the RBs

[MinisterofDOOM]

There a ***** to work on as opposed to the RBs

Uh...No. Actually, they are not.

[TheOne]

same difficulty, cept for piping.....some do rb for jdm tyte:).

the VG swap hasn't been as r&d'ed as the rb(on a 240sx), so you have to do almost everything custom, if you can do it, then go for it, it should be same fun as rb swap....as long as you don't have to work on the engine or its turbos...they're a pain on either the 240sx or the 300zx,lol.(should check an engine bay of a z32, see how crammed things are in there)

[mrflip69]

Simply put, more room with the RB on the sides, because it's an I6. Parts are NOT that hard to find for the RB series, as there's a lot of interchangeable things with USDM engines.

Someone on Fresh Alloy did the VG swap, I don't remember if it was turbo or not. He put a lot of work into it, converting and relocating the brake system to make more room on the firewall for clearance, not to mention custom strut bracing from notching the towers.

In the end, he had a pretty fun car, but it seemed like more work than it should have been... but it was a clean *** swap.

Someone is also working on a VQ30 (Maxima engine, transmission from Z33 IIRC) at Fresh Alloy. Why 30 and not 35? Things like getting throttle by wire and such to work.

If you're mechanically inclined, and have the time, I'm sure you could pull either of those off.

[574-240sx]

I have seen 2 VG swaps in person and its crammed, just like in the engine bay of the 300ZX. Looks like you would have to pull the motor just to get to stuff. My vote would be a VQ35 swap.

[RB26-S13]

The VG swap, I know nothing about, but judging by what everybody says here, it's gonna be real crammed.

I thought I'd reiterate that to lead into this next part. The Rb26 is crammed too, no matter how you look at it. Sure its an I-6.. but its still a large engine inside a 240. 240's are by no stretch, a roomy car. They're -- in my opinion -- only a step or two bigger than a Miata.

The RB, once it is in, if you have to do turbo work? You're better off pulling the engine to do it, the rear turbo is so close to the towers, and so close to the master cylinder, and so close to the steering linkage, its going to be damn near impossible to work on without pulling the engine. Now, it CAN be done, but look at spending quite a bit of time wiggling the turbo and such to get it off, and get it on.

The Intake manifold generally sits extremely close to the firewall too, some shops, and even a magazine that did an RB swap in an issue a few months ago recommended denting the firewall in some to clear it, and make sure it didn't vibrate against it or hit it when it was driven hard. Lets face it, no engine sits perfectly still in the motor mounts.

And you're almost NOT, going to find an RB for less than 3-4 thousand, at all. If you find one, chances are its a scam, or the engine isn't what they're saying it is.

I got extremely lucky, there's really no measure for how lucky I got, I bought my RB26DETT with all the accessories, the uncut wiring harness, the ECU, and the GT-R transmission for 3,000. And it had 16,000 miles on it. The guy thought it was an R-32 engine, but I found out it was an R-33 engine (and transmission).

So, again, if anyone tells you it can't be done, or you're going to have a hard time. You may have a hard time, but it CAN be done. Just like when I bought my engine and transmission, McKinney Motorsports was charging 8,000 for their RB's and trannys, I bought mine for 2,900 -- and got lucky as hell. You might be able to reproduce it, but...

I'll tell ya right now. Good luck to ya man, More and more people are jumping on the bandwagon and getting RB's for their 240's. Most of them are RB20's, some are RB25's, and a handful(but growing numbers) are doing RB26's, but they're the ones with deep pockets(Not to toot my own horn, but my pockets don't have to be as deep, I got mine cheap). The VG idea isn't that widely done, so much as I know. RB prices are starting to go up because of the influx of the amount of people wanting to do them. If a shop does it, my opinion would be to go to a name that was doing it before anyone else (McKinney), or atleast a shop that works on GT-R's regularly. The shop doing mine, the owner owns an R-33 GT-R, and an R-32 GT-R, and works on several GT-R's that are in the US regularly. So I went to him, and they're (overall, the owner, the head mechanic, etc) are all very nice people, easy to work with, and they're very knowledgable. So, me personally, I'd recommend talking to them.

Also, if you do an RB swap, look at ending up spending around 10,000 all together. What with the mounting kit from McKinney (1,100) the Downpipe if you want to keep the twins (600) the RB25 modified oil pan (600) the Intercooler and the piping custom made (around 1000 for mine alltogether) and the intakes (most GT-R engines come with no intakes) forgot how much an intake will run you for the GT-R, but there's .... almost no one to go with except for HKS(big money) or Apex'I(big money, but cheaper than HKS). If you go Single turbo, I imagin **** would be a LITTLE cheaper, and easier to fit in there/easier to work on... but.. Yeah.

This is already long enough, I'll cut it off here.

[scottsi]

Uh...No. Actually, they are not.

have you actually worked on a ttz32? have you tried to change injectors? turbos? clutch? pull the engine out? i've owned two and ive done all of that, and it is NOT a simple job by far. the engine has to come out to do nearly anything. im going to be buying a rb25det and dropping it into a s13 after selling my z32 tt.

Sure the z32tt is .4l larger than the rb26, but the rb26 is a race bred engine, the stock internals can handle TONS of power. whereas the vg30dett internals can only handle 600hp, anymore and the rings/lands go. the stock turbos on the vg30 can BARELY make 450, im not sure what the rb26 can make but im pretty sure its more than that. inline is a better configureation vs a V type engine. Why did titan beat the vq35? also the head on the rb26 flows MUCH MUCH better than the vg30 does. And weight becomes another factor, the vg30det engine is a heavy heavy piece of equipment, along with the transmission. i doubt it would make for a good handling car because it would have a high tendency to understeer.

personally i think the z32 should have came with a rb series engine, but nissan got cheap and reused the block from the z31 to save money.

[JDMEnthused]

ehh... motors from ebay suck.. they are POS ( most of the time).. the vg30 is sooo ****ing heavy, its not even worth it.. ill be doing a RB25 swap into my RMS13 and.. i dont think its jumping on a bandwagon.. jumping on bandwagon is having a bigass wing on a FWD car.. i believe that if the Nissan guys with RB's are putting down the power and the times, we should stick with it.. we need more fighters..

[BGdude]

If I may add something, I'm not sure if you any of you has seen it, but I have two friends with S13s that have swapped in 1JZ-GTE (Toyota Supra - JDM only). It is a direct bolt on, mod to one engine mount only, pefect fit and TONS of reliable power. Don't get me wrong, I love Nissan and have an SR, but my buddy with the 1J is clocking low 12's, high 11's every time on stock set up and got to respect that. If you wan pics, I'll get some and post so you can see. Pretty cool stuff....

[BGdude]

P.S. vg30dett engines are just horrible! I dont know what Nissan was thinking when they design them, but did a pretty good job on the SR and RB i would say !

[SeVa-S13]

P.S. vg30dett engines are just horrible! I dont know what Nissan was thinking when they design them, but did a pretty good job on the SR and RB i would say !

WTF? The SR isn't even close to the VG in any respect. What basis do you have?

[Kenrik]

What I don't get is the RB is only 100lbs more then a KA... and the VG is 150lbs more... that does not seem like that much weight to me compaired to the powergains... will it really mess up handling that much?? if you put the battery in the trunk and keep a full tank of gas the weight ratio difference would not be very much at all...

i'm not doing a swap i'm going Ka-T but I still want to know options for the future.

[BGdude]

"WTF?"....is this necessary??? ask question and i'll try to answer in reasonable manner....oh yeah, try to change something on a VG engine, have fun and when you are done, let me know how many times you cursed at it....

[SeVa-S13]

Maintenance difficulty has absolutely no bearing on engine's quality. I have worked on Z32's, more TT's than not and while it's a pain sometimes, it's a very worthwhile engine.

[scottsi]

it may be worthwhile engine, but the time and effort it takes to do anything on it outweighs the power it puts down, and i dont see how its "just 150lbs more" its probably around 200, maybe 250, cast iron block, two aluminum heads, that huge intake manifold, the cast exhaust manifolds, and the turbos. have you priced things out on them? a turbo setup is 2k++, injectors are no less than 1k, intercoolers are nearly 1k. the market for vg stuff is very gouged imo.

[Florida240sx]

Where you shopping at?IC same price as it is for any car.Just pic the one you want and make piping.... injectors no less than 1k???I can get a brand new set for under $400 and it is from a supplier so this isn't a one time special find.That ebay motor and transmission are a bit cheap.But still that's jsut motor and transmission. You need the harness, igniter, mafs,ecu,etc. You getting scammed on that one.

[MinisterofDOOM]

it may be worthwhile engine, but the time and effort it takes to do anything on it outweighs the power it puts down

Eh, what?!

You wouldn't be saying that if the SR were the beast to work on. Damn JDM-tyte fanboys. The SR is NOT god, and it's also not the basis by which all other motors should be judged.

P.S. vg30dett engines are just horrible! I dont know what Nissan was thinking when they design them, but did a pretty good job on the SR and RB i would say !

Explain to me, then, why the normally aspirated, SOHC VG is better in every respect than the SR. Bring the blacktop on. At least the VG can actually break the 200 ft lb mark without being blown on. Yeah, throw all the turbos you want on the SR. But put the same money into even a VG30E, and we'll see who's making the best use of the most power.

have you actually worked on a ttz32?and it is NOT a simple job by far. the engine has to come out to do nearly anything.

We're comparing how difficult the POWERPLANTS are to work on, not the cars. Cram ANYTHING (including an SR or an RB) in tight enough and it'll be a ***** to work on. But yeah, I've worked on Z32's. I've assisted in a trans swap, as well as installing new headers (pulled the block for both).

but the rb26 is a race bred engine

It's still built from a family car powerplant which really wasn't anything special. Just like the VG. They both are more commonly found in 2 liter versions powering sedans and luxboats. The VG30DETT AND the RB26DETT are both performance-tuned versions of regular workhorse powerplants. The RB26 is no more "race bred" than any other sportscar powerplant Nissan's deployed from the VG to the S.

Again, you guys really need to look past the jdm fanboy 1337ness of the RB and SR and realize that they are NOT the only decent motors Nissan has produced.

[Rex]

VH41 Lots of pics and info http://members.iinet.net.au/~dcollins/silfiniti/

[scottsi]

so what, im not totally discrediting the vg, it is a STRONG engine no doubt, but stock for stock, what engine can make more power, can handle more power, and is easier to work on? a RB series, im not a SR fan, im a rb25/26 fan because its a higher displacement i-6. youre trying to argue that old technology is better than new and that is a pointless arguement. the vg30dett came with CAST pistons that CANNOT take more than 600-650 hp before busting some lands or rings. Have you seen the coolant passages on a VG engine? how nissan did the casting? its horrible, no wonder the engines heat up so much and the way the intake plenum is designed the far rear cylinders heat up and begin detonating. also, mention a detonation sensor replacement to a z32 owner and they'll crap their pants.

the vg while a might motor, does not have the technology or stock parts that can handle big powernumbers. id say the rb25det and the vg30dett are on the same playing feild, but the rb26dett is on a higher level no doubt

[SeVa-S13]

The RB26 is far and away the most advanced engine Nissan has produced to date in a street car -- not merely a spruced up version of the RB25. Just a note...

I still <3 the VG and will defend to the death its superiority to the SR.

[Rosco]

It seems like it's a growing trend around here to hate SR's...I'm throwing an SR in very soon and I didn't buy it to follow a trend. It seems to me it was the most viable option for me. People shouldn't hate SR's because it's a growing trend, they are a good engines.

[dfw240_EE]

The RB26 is far and away the most advanced engine Nissan has produced to date in a street car -- not merely a spruced up version of the RB25. Just a note...

I still <3 the VG and will defend to the death its superiority to the SR.

The weight of the VG is certainly a turn off for me.

[SeVa-S13]

I don't really care what other people do with their cars, and I'm not saying I hate the SR. I just think the VG is a better designed engine.

[scottsi]

most definately it is better than the sr, the sr is a 4 cylinder, the vg is a 6, with a liter more displacement, it would be a damn shame if the sr was a superior engine, im not SR swapping because 4 cylinders isnt enough and more cylinders respond better to modification. the vg is better designed than the sr, but the rb is better designed than the vg. end of story