Engine start up/break in without a tune?

[meet07]

I finally got my motor back. I havnt assembled it yet but Ive been reading and wondering how I should go about starting my motor. I have all new injectors, new coil pack setup, new turbo and new bottom end. It seems that people say to break the motor in as soon as you let the temperature warm up and that it dont take long at all for the rings to seal. My problem is that Im gonna let a tuner tune it on the dyno but Im not sure if I should at least start the motor up i my garage to check for leaks and do the 1st oil change. What do you guys think?

[Darius]

There are two different, or should I say polar opposite, schools of thought on this topic. One is to drive easy for the first 500 miles. The other is to get it out and drive it like you stole it right out of the box. I'm not a believer that either method is better than the other in terms of longevity or reliability. I've been driving mine for about 4,000 miles since the build and broke it in easy. It runs just as smooth as it did then.

Since you won't have a tune on it, you'll probably end up driving it easy at first because you don't want to break something immediately. On any build, you will want to start it and let it idle up to operating temperature to check for any fluid leaks or electrical and cooling issues. It is not worth wasting your and everyone else's time putting an untested car on the dyno and have it piss the bed. Get everything straightened out and take it out for a few laps around the neighborhood to make sure all the mechanicals check out. Then bring it to your tuner to fine tune it.

[robbie2883]

no matter what your school of thought is......i HIGHLY suggest taking it easy for 50 miles (no boost). high load low rpm....i.e. 5th gear at very low speeds/rpms. this actually puts back pressure on the rings and helps seat them properly. now here's the REALLY important part. after the first 50 miles, CHANGE THE OIL!!! when breaking in a motor and seating rings you are actually wearing away edges of metal on the cylinder walls, rings and bearings. microscopic, but enough to do future damage. this is why i always suggest changing the oil. also you should be using regular (non synthetic) for break in. i wouldn't suggest synthetic until 1000 miles. but that's a matter opinion. no matter what you'll never seat rings on synthetic. after the first 50....drive it by whichever train of thought you want. i've built aton of motors (30+). all have been broken in different except for one common factor. easy for 50 miles and change the oil, and all of them run just fine to this day.


oh...and one last thing...don't keep a sustained rpm for long periods during the first 500-1000

[meet07]

-Ok so start her up and let it idle until warm, got it. But after it warms up should I drop the oil then or should I take it up and down the street for like 5-10 minutes then bring it back into the garage to drop the oil?

-And should I drive it to the tuner or should I tow it? The tuner is about 30 minutes away depending on how fast I go?

[240z4u]

Make absolutely sure you aren't running really rich. That will wash the cylinder walls and cause all sorts of problems. I started my last motor build untuned without a problem. There are a billion ways to break in an engine and I am convinced most of them are hocus pocus. I never run an engine at idle during breakin though.

[meet07]

Make absolutely sure you aren't running really rich. That will wash the cylinder walls and cause all sorts of problems. I started my last motor build untuned without a problem. There are a billion ways to break in an engine and I am convinced most of them are hocus pocus. I never run an engine at idle during breakin though.

So why dont you let the engine idle? Are you suggesting start the engine, look for leaks, adjust timing, cas and fuel pressure then imediatly pull it out on the road and start trimming up the fuel table?

[240z4u]

Make absolutely sure you aren't running really rich. That will wash the cylinder walls and cause all sorts of problems. I started my last motor build untuned without a problem. There are a billion ways to break in an engine and I am convinced most of them are hocus pocus. I never run an engine at idle during breakin though.

So why dont you let the engine idle? Are you suggesting start the engine, look for leaks, adjust timing, cas and fuel pressure then imediatly pull it out on the road and start trimming up the fuel table?

You do whatever you are comfortable with. I don't let an engine idle that is getting broken in (on first startup anyway). I check to make sure nothing is out of whack and bring the rpm's up to 1k for a short time, then 1100 then 900 etc.. keep the rpm's moving around a bit is my goal.

IMO you shouldn't be tuning this motor at WOT until you have at least a couple hundred miles on it. This is ONLY my opinion, do your research and make your choice.

[Shocker]

The last motor I built myself with my buddy and tuner who builds 4g63's as a hobby. Most of his motors are making 500 to 800whp without issue. All were broken in hard.

My motor was started up idle tuned while it was warming up and coolant was bled. After 12 min or so it was shut down oil changed and let to completely cool. After that within the first 10 to 15 miles the motor was on wastegate pressure 10 lbs and only recede to 6k until 150 miles or so for the clutch. After that boost was turned up to 17 psu and it made 505 at setting. About 500 miles old it was on the dyno at 20-21 lbs 530rwp.

My comp numbers are all high and consistent, plugs are sweaky clean after 4k of hard miles.

if you don't do your own tuning drive it to someone who does or have them come to you. I have a bit of a 2jz obsession as well and those dudes are making a 1000 wheel after 10 miles on some motor builds.

[robbie2883]

i always run the 50 miles first..then change oil.this makes absolutely sure the rings are seated. otherwise you're cleanign out metal shavings before they are all introduced into the oil

[meet07]

i always run the 50 miles first..then change oil.this makes absolutely sure the rings are seated. otherwise you're cleanign out metal shavings before they are all introduced into the oil

And you wasnt scared to have metal shavings somehow working there way around the motor. I have heard of people using a big magnet and sticking it on the bottom of the oil pan...

[meet07]

The last motor I built myself with my buddy and tuner who builds 4g63's as a hobby. Most of his motors are making 500 to 800whp without issue. All were broken in hard.

My motor was started up idle tuned while it was warming up and coolant was bled. After 12 min or so it was shut down oil changed and let to completely cool. After that within the first 10 to 15 miles the motor was on wastegate pressure 10 lbs and only recede to 6k until 150 miles or so for the clutch. After that boost was turned up to 17 psu and it made 505 at setting. About 500 miles old it was on the dyno at 20-21 lbs 530rwp.

My comp numbers are all high and consistent, plugs are sweaky clean after 4k of hard miles.

if you don't do your own tuning drive it to someone who does or have them come to you. I have a bit of a 2jz obsession as well and those dudes are making a 1000 wheel after 10 miles on some motor builds.

Did you let the engine warm up, bleed coolant while untuned or did you do all of this on the dyno? I have a 2jz obsession as well

[Shocker]

I did the idle base tuning in my garage as the car was heating up and I had a helper doing the coolant bleed. After that I waited for my buddy/tuner to come out and we road tuned before dyno.

[ItzGenX]

I have heard of people using a big magnet and sticking it on the bottom of the oil pan...

I have always used a magnetic drain plug. It's amazing how much metal sticks to them during that first oil change break-in period. It may be less than 20 miles or 2 hours worth, but that's when most of the shavings show themselves. Putting some strong magnets on the oil filter casing helps too, especially for break-in.

[robbie2883]

I have heard of people using a big magnet and sticking it on the bottom of the oil pan...

I have always used a magnetic drain plug. It's amazing how much metal sticks to them during that first oil change break-in period. It may be less than 20 miles or 2 hours worth, but that's when most of the shavings show themselves. Putting some strong magnets on the oil filter casing helps too, especially for break-in.

yes...magnets are a good idea to get things out of the stream...but aside from break in......if you've got metal shards etc on the magnet then it's already too late

[ItzGenX]

The magnets pull the micro shavings much like the plugs on the transmission. Its similar to the metallic powder in anti seize compounds. Large metal flakes are definitely a bad and dire sign which would be uncommon for a new motor.

[meet07]

I have heard of people using a big magnet and sticking it on the bottom of the oil pan...

I have always used a magnetic drain plug. It's amazing how much metal sticks to them during that first oil change break-in period. It may be less than 20 miles or 2 hours worth, but that's when most of the shavings show themselves. Putting some strong magnets on the oil filter casing helps too, especially for break-in.

I went ahead and ordered a magnetic oil drain plug...I made sure to get the one with the longest magnet! The last time I built my motor it had a large shard about 2 inches long just waiting to me plucked...lol

[Carl H]

key is oil changes, i've had good luck doing the first few using non detergent 30wt (hella old school, i know) and quality filters every time.
I wouldnt try to remotely break in a motor without a known good base tune, conservative is best.

[meet07]

Im still having that ticking noise so driving it really isnt taking place to much. Just starting and reving it. I did take her up and down my street and dialed the afr around partial throttle but the valvetrain noise gets louder and I bring her back into the garage.....

I switched from Rotella SAE 30 to some walmart 20w-50 to see if anything change. All I saw was like a 25+ increase in oil pressure...

I saw what you wrote in my build and Im gonna start tearing her back down to the cams and submerge the lifters in that pan of oil and paperclip them. If I see bubbles that means that they had air in them right? And are they suppose to be solid after bleeding them or spoungy??

Thanks

[Carl H]

a properly bled lifter will be rock hard when you squeeze it together.
its good practice to bleed lifters even if brand new to ensure that no air got in during shipping.
they are typically shipped in baggies full of oil but always the potential along the way for them to bleed down.

[Darius]

Before you take everything apart, check the cam lobe-to-bucket clearance after the engine has been brought up to operating temp. Pop the valve covers off and measure with feeler gauges. The lifters shouldn't bleed down fast enough to influence the tolerances. If there is a gap between the bucket and cam, you'll need to shim the bucket up higher. This would suck to do but if you need help, I can offer some guidance. Ferrea cut my valves too short and I had to work around it. Mine were the first S1/S2 1mm oversized valves they made... Did you install aftermarket valves into the head? I can't remember.

When I reassemble hydraulic lifters after cleaning the ball check valves inside them with brake cleaner or other strong solvent, I fill the little thimble thing with oil via syringe, then push the smaller thimble with the ball check valve onto it. Next, depress the ball to bleed the oil/air out of the lifter. Once it is bled, remove the paper clip and the lifter should be stiff. Pop the rest of the bucket together and it should be good to go. Honestly, an oil bath will not do anything for them a pressurized oil system wouldn't have already gotten around.

[meet07]

Darius: I have the same stock vavles just a 5 angle valve job... Not sure if that could cause a gap between the cams and lifters but thats the only thing done to the head. That and install of new valve stem seals..

I bleed them and it sounded like it ma have been better but I was more so scracthing my head trying to figre out why this thing idles like the timing is off..Im taking a break with this peice....Im frustrated and exhausted. My friday tuning appontment is cancelled....

[Darius]

If anything, the valve heads should be closer to the cams so that shouldn't have affected anything negatively. Valve stem seals don't have an impact either.