Engine Seized?

[cccpman]

All right guys here is the problem of the month

Originally I thought it was a starter related issue, however somebody suggested it could be that the engine is flooded (which is why I am here)

Currently, when you try to start the car it makes a loud mechanical click, the engine moves very slightly (like the fan blades move 1/4 inch, then go back), when you release the key the starter makes a whir type sound

So far I have replaced the battery, beat the crap out of the starter, tore apart the starter relay to make sure it was fine, cleaned all the connectors. Somebody suggested that the car could be flooded, so I spent a lot of time checking on what could have caused that possible problem. It actually could be oil, it seems to be the only fluid out of whack, being slightly above the 'high' marking (5-10% maybe)

I decided to pull the spark plugs, thinking I would be able to see into the cylinders and check if it was flooded or not, well the plugs are out, 3 of them have oil on the case of the plug, but none on the side of the plug that would be in the cylinder

So, thinking its not a flooded engine (just sloppy oil filling) I tried the starter again, still makes the click but thats it. Well if its the starter I *should* be able to turn the engine by hand, putting on a 30mm socket I am unable to crank the engine even in the slightest (pulled off fan so I could do this from overhead). I tried it on two other cars, a 5.9 L truck and a 3.0 L car and they both crank with ease... my question is, what the ****?

Anybody have a spare 2 minutes to get a 30mm socket and put on the engine and tell me just how hard a working engine is to crank (can be done from underneath, its right below the fan clutch)

I really think the engine has seized up, either by lack of oil pressure (slightly overfilled), or being hydrolocked by a broken seal (by oil), even possibly hydrolocked by too much fuel (I was working on the FI and such for about 2 weeks... but it was fine for several days so fuel is unlikely). What exactly are my options? Any idea on possible problems? Is it a bad idea to have somebody attempting to crank by hand AND hit the starter (assuming wrench will clear all obstacles of course )

I have not yet replaced the starter (I have an OEM one right here though), but would it really be putting out enough force to get the engine to show some torque if it was dead? What should be my next step?

Ugh, Q always giving me something to do at least x_X

[ScottJackson]

It ain't very hard to turn the Q crankshaft with ratchet or breaker bar. Pull out all the plugs and try spinning it. If it takes much effort at all, yeah, you got some real issues. If it spins over easily with plugs removed, look for bad/leaky fuel injector(s). Do a compression test on each side to make sure all cams are turning as they're supposed to.

[cccpman]

all the plugs are out and I did try spinning = no spin

all I can say is 'why me?'

[Q45denver]

Oil overfill is unlikely. Unfortunately you may have hydrolocked it while working on the FI. Pretty easy to do if not careful and starter has enough torque to bend a rod.

I'm still trying to find time to replace my injectors before winter comes (next week?).

[cccpman]

well I still wont have 4k by then (maybe I will talk to USAA about a small 2 or so month loan or something)

I think I was rather careful with the FI, having taken it all apart a few times since I owned her and never had the problem. Also she ran for several days without incident since the last work

I am still thinking the oil could have been a problem, maybe frothed up in the crankcase, causing a drop in pressure and the upper engine to seize up from the lack of lubrication. Dont really know how that could be fixed, actually I dont think it could... If a rod is bent is there a tell tale sign or something? I would think that it would no longer be hydrolocked after sitting for a few days, so wouldnt it be able to turn again, at least a little?

[Q45denver]

In my experience, if the rod is bent; it is going to go out the side of the engine block at some point but I suppose a seized engine is likely as well. How much over the top was the oil filled?

[Q451990]

I don't think the oil overfill is your problem. It is possible that you had an injector lower seal issue that flooded the engine... then it hydrolocked... then the oil seeped down past the rings into the crankcase. So the rise in oil level may be from fuel in the oil.

You might try pressurizing the fuel rails with the injectors off of the car to check for leaks... heck at this point, you could probably pressurize it with them on the car, and see how quickly it bleeds down (using a fuel pressure gauge).

Man... you have really been through it with this Q!

Heath

[cccpman]

ugh how would I go about pressurizing it?
Modified by cccpman at 7:05 AM 10/4/2007

[cccpman]

ok the problem appears not to have been the oil, one FI does not ohm at all. Checked the oil, its now near double the level it should be, has a smell of gas (imagine that!). It also appears much darker then it should. To confirm I pulled the fuel pump (faster then pulling the plenum I figured) and its an empty tank from at least 5 gallons (more)

I guess today or tomorrow im pulling the plenum off, it would be nice to make her run once again, but if the rods are bent its a def. part out situation (send vultures this way)

The car wont turn over, its been a while, does this mean that the engine is now seized or rods are bent thus not allowing it to turn or is it possible its still hydrolocked? If it is still hydrolocked how the hell do I fix it at this point short of lighting it on fire

Bent rods, not something I would be able to deal with even using NICO. How the heck will I be able to tell if they are bent, what do I need to remove to get to see them? I see that the area around the where the spark plugs go has a bunch of 12mm (i think) bolts and an RTV seal... is that what I should be taking off? At least it would let me see the heads right, and then I could actually mop up all the fluids or see anything jacked up? Anyways if a rod did bend from being hydrolocked and shoot out the side wouldnt it have let all the fluids leak out, there has been no oil or gas dripping anywhere...

I think the priority should be getting the engine to actually turn over, I just dont know how and in case it could still be hydrolocked do not want to use a breakerbar and some force

Winter is near guys, please share some advice, I have all the time in the world while its warm but when it gets cold it will be hell

[Q45tech]

Were the chain guides updated to all metal backed units? If it won't turn with a wrench valves are bent in driverside. Try turning backwards 1/2 a rev. then forwards.

[Q45denver]

Just remove the plugs. That will allow you to turn the engine and dry out the cylinders. Sounds like you have a leaky injector.

[cccpman]

Q45Denver the plugs have been out for a while and it has remained impossible to turn for some reason

Q45Tech the chain guides were updated to metal ones, in the morning i will try the backwards then forwards

[cccpman]

well tried turning backwards, about 3/8ths of a rev it gets stuck. It was making a strange sound, like walking on a sticky floor or something. Anyways I rotated back and only got 3/8ths forward (so no change). When it gets brighter outside I will take a good look and try to make the call today on if she is getting parted or if she will undergo a surgery

for ****s and giggles im also pulling the starter to check to see if by some act of god its stuck and causing the problem
Modified by cccpman at 6:20 AM 10/5/2007

[ScottJackson]

Also disconnect the belts on the front of the engine. I don't know if a steering pump or alternator could lock up that tight, but it's a thought. At any rate, with the oil level going up, it's definately leaking fuel. If you can turn the engine at all, you can try pouring a small amount of diesel in each cylinder through the spark plug holes (and leave them out) then cranking it back and forth. It may free it up again. Whether the engine will ever run right if you do get it freed up would still be a try-it-and-see type deal.

[cccpman]

all right car is written off as dead, looks like a multiple of problems. The first being the fuel hydro locking the cylinder, the second is the piston is crooked and eating into the wall of the cylinder. Parting out as of today, I will post the part out situation tonight after I get a little more work done while we have daylight

I had been stockpiling parts for a while as just in case scenarios, so they will all go too until I find another Q and get the money to grab it up

So far the radiator is out and in great condition, alternator, starter (tested as good, will test my 2nd one in a couple days). I have two fan clutches that are good and out right now. I have a second set of FI I will ohm, along with 2 KS I found that will be ohmed as well. The FI I pull from this one all showed as good expect for one. The Plenum is extremely clean, im going to re clean it and some of the lower intake manifolds for anybody who wants to swap to a much cleaner setup without 5 hours of scrubbing with a nylon brush. Best of best, the ECU I just got from wes and was only able to put a couple hundred miles on. Really I need to know whats worth taking out, I have maybe 100 hours to pull parts total and am more then happy to pull things for fellow Q fanatics. Today is just some engine work, im going to get down to the problem hopefully eventually and be able to see for myself what sort of destruction it takes to kill a Q. All of the body panels are in need of paint, both front and read bumpers are great, the trunk has a spoiler and is good, I can yank out the motors from seats or doors or whatever is needed

It has been a hell of a ride, mostly enjoyable. Cant say its not interesting pulling the beast apart but really there are plenty of parts that I dont understand, yet alone know their names or if anybody would need them. Really hope to maybe pull 1k out of this car. Wish me luck and send me a wish list while at it Will be back at the Q game in a couple months as I get a paycheck large enough to buy a already well maintained Q from a fellow NICO member if possible. Anyways, will post it as being parted out later tonight, have to get back to work!

[96Qowner]

the piston is crooked and eating into the wall of the cylinder

Not always a good thing, nope. Ach, unbelieveable, cccpman! After all the work you went through trying to bring it back. For future readers, here's what happened - fuggin' deer:

Q gods fury

BTW, over 200 people are killed by deer in this country each year.

When I read that you couldn't turn the engine standing on the bar, and that it made bad noises before it quit, I had a sinking feeling it had hydrolocked. Damn. Here's that thread:

I attempted to start the car originally, it cranked for about 2 seconds made a couple horrible noises and stopped.

Starter?

[cccpman]

thanks, yea it feels like **** to put so much work into the car to have something like this take it out but parting it out is an education on its own. Maybe the next Q will take a hint from MAD MAX

I will be back with another Q in a couple months and pamper the **** out of it. Till then its working on parting this out and moving to the oil fields

Link to the part out thread... didnt think of it but now that I look none of the Q's there ever sell anything , the ones that do are under the infiniti section... maybe its worth a move

zerothread/283815
Modified by cccpman at 3:54 PM 10/5/2007

[goody90q45]

Sorry to see you on the losing end of this one. There's some great deals out there and if you're patient one will come your way. If your Q has a good transmission and you've got a way to remove it, and room to store it, then take it out. Many nice Q's in the $1000 range are there because they have a failed or failing transmission and the owner doesn't want to put more into the car than it's worth.

Make sure to part out the front calipers/rotors and the TB. The Nissan guys are always looking for them in their parts forum.

[Q45man1]

You have put a lot of time and efforts to make this Q working again but you have to do what you have to do. You have been unbelievable, your patience and perseverance really made notice. Good luck in your pursuit of another Q.

[maxnix]

Hope you are back soon with a properly vetted one.

[cccpman]

well im not going to look for one thats run down, and I know what sort of money goes into them. Q45Denver has a 90 that sounds absolutely amazing, I would be shot for spending the price he wants by my bank or my lady but it would cost 5x-10x as much to restore one then it is to buy one that a NICO member put love in to. That right there might be the best deal around, I see some for $400 but you just know its going to balloon after sale. If an irresistible deal comes my way I just might have to pick it up

I have no way of removing the trans but I have been extra careful to restore mine. It involved some additives, several partial fluid exchanges, and then a full fledged flush (which did not hurt it because it was being slowly prepped for it) that eventually ended her up with synthetic fluids. Shifts strong, the only thing I noticed was with the NICO ecu I had to shift 50-100 rpm's early from where I actually wanted to shift at WOT. I think its a trans thing and not unique to mine. If you have any resources that would help me save the transmission, I would love to!

Do you think I should have the thread moved to the Infiniti parts for sale area, my post in part outs is the only Q that seems to have ever been given interest so far

I appreciate the comments guys, your the reason the car stayed alive and gave so much joy, and the reason I will be picking another Q up when the coffers start to fill again. With the job switch I should be able to do more, but its going to take those 1 or 2 months to have it all sorted out

[maxnix]

A Q45 is not a snow car anyway, and road salt is a sin.

Save your money and see what spring brings.

[goody90q45]

......Do you think I should have the thread moved to the Infiniti parts for sale area, my post in part outs is the only Q that seems to have ever been given interest so far.

This came up before and our Moderator Emeritus (Wes) said it was OK to keep all the Infiniti parts, partouts and WTB in the Infiniti Parts forum. The Nissan forums get a lot of use. Start a thread buying/selling a part and it will be on page 2 in a day and archived in a month.

Good luck with your partout. Save those window regulators. They seem to be the most wanted item right now.

[cccpman]

yep, thanks goody94q45 that was the key! Posted some generous prices, a small list of whats been pulled and bam, it starts flying off the shelf