engine management for 400 whp

[j-z]

what up yall. im about to turbo the ka. im shooting for 400 whp on pump with a built ka. i already have an safc hooked up in my car, and i also have an old school apexi ITC in my closet as well that works. i just cant find any wiring instructions on it. would this do the job to get me at my goal and be reliable with a live motor? i already have this stuff, so its not like i would have to buy anything else. i plan on gettin a high flow walbro 255 lph pump, z32 MAF, and try to find some 550 side feeds. any inputs would be appreciated. i also need some help to find some decent deals on some rods and pistons. who all makes rods for the ka? all ive found are crowers, and damn $700! im thinking of going with the jgs .63 AR kit, and ebay FMIC setup. peace

[The All Mighty KA-T]

Above Average: 350 rwhp to 425 rwhp

Turbo ManifoldBlow Off ValveT3/T04E 50 Trim .48/.63 or slightly larger turbo, this is where I would start to make the switch up to an external wastegate. You have the option to reroute it back into the exhaust, or merely "dump" it out into the open. "Dump" is usually a mini exhaust in the form of 1.5" piping routed out to the open.FMIC Larger is starting to be necessary. Typical for setups from here on, are 12"x24"x3" for the core.Downpipe 3", at this point I would switch to the larger downpipe. You can probably get away with it at 2.5", but it will be causing a little bit of backpressure. Moving to 3" piping as quickly as possible is what you want though. Usually it is necessary to have the first bend 2.5" to clear the steering shaft though.Exhaust 3"

Block InternalsAt this stage you'll want to "build" or fortify your block to better handle boost. Previous to this you can walk the line, but here and forward I find it necessary to do so.Forged RodsForged PistonsStock CrankPlus your typical rebuild items.

Fuel ControlStandalone fuel management is recommended at this stage in the game and is absolutely necessary at the next. These allow you control not only very large injectors, but the tuner to have complete control over both timing and fuel.720cc Injectors.Wideband O2 Sensor is necessary for tuning.

Got it from this thread :

http://www.ka-t.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6263

ECU tune Info :

http://www.rs-enthalpy.com/

and the E-bay intercooler setup works fine....

[j-z]

i didnt want to hear a basic setup list. i already know what im doing. i just want to know about my afc and itc combo. thanks though. more specific, not a list of bs.

[KATwo40]

If you're going to build the engine for high horsepower, why bother settling for inadequate tuning systems? The AFC + ITC combo might do the trick, but will be far from optimal.

If you want good reliable power with optimal conditions, go with either a re-tuned ECU or a full standalone. Either one will give you a good solid base for running your car. You might use the AFC to SLIGHTLY modify some fueling, if you use the re-tuned ECU, but other than that, it's limited.

Some guys, however, use the AFC + BTM (boost timing master) to obtain some 300ish whp numbers. Then again, the cost of both is close to that of a re-tuned ECU.

Hope this helps a bit.

[nismofly]

are you planning on keeping the ITB's?

if so a standalone really would be your best bet

and it would make it the first ITB KA-T to my knowledge

[j-z]

im going to sell the itbs to fund the 400 whp. so what all options do i have with a retuned ecu? i know jim wolf, but thats about it for the ka. i really want to do it right the first time around. will 550s due for 400? i would really like to see a big list of options as far as engine management goes. that way i can read up and see what suits me best. no way am i going with aem (too much $). maybe ill just boost around at the 300 mark and get used to that power from being na, and then upgrade once ive found something that will work for me. i have about 5k to work with. i will be doing all of the work myself with the exception of the machine work. anyone have any specific suggetions on what to look for? thanks guys

[nismofly]

id say 740's for injectors

if you dont want to spend the money on the standalone, you might try an enthalpy tune

same idea as jwt, only better tune

[nismofly]

http://www.rs-enthalpy.com/

i really cant tell you any more than ive only heard good things, i dont have any personal experience because they dont do SOHC tunes

i cant say the same for jwt, most people have to use an safc to correct the jwt

[WDRacing]

For the record, I like the old Apexi ITC, with that and the SAFCI my friend and I got his 300ZX to just under 500WHP. I believe 470ish was where we stopped.

As far as injectors go, you'll need 80 psi of base fuel pressure to get 550's to 420 at the crank. If you keep your injectors at an 80% max duty cycle, which is good, you'll need 82lb injectors at 40 psi base fuel pressure.

Here's a great link for info. http://www.rceng.com/technical.htm

WD

[sunnys14]

i believe 550cc's + btm + safc2 would be good for about 360ish whp. dont go any high without a standalone or tuned ECU. as for JWT, his tunes arent so great compared to Enthalpy. but Enthalpy on the other hand has proved lately that he is a LAG MASTER and doesnt like to send his customer's their ecu after weeks and no response...

[KATwo40]

"No response" is death to any business. He should be careful, or he'll lose his market.

[Edub1]

SAFC (altering MAF signal) is a horrible way to tune fuel because the ECU will alter timing. JWT and enthalpy have been used with success but they rely on fixed rather than boost sensitive timing maps. This is simply not good enough for that kind of power.

I am working on an ECU swap that will give "stand alone" controll over your EFI system. The best part is that it will pull timing based on up to 3 bar of boost.

The only other way I would do it is to tune the ECU for fuel and use a BTM.

Look for a post on this soon.

[WDRacing]

With the SAFC and ITC you can add or retract timing with any scan tool. SO the ECU adding timing do to lack of airflow signal is really a non issue. I used a SAFC and a BTM and ran 20 psi...till I tossed a rod do to the casting/oiling issues with the KA.

WD

[nissanfanatic]

For the last week, I have been pushing 18-20psi on an Enthalpy tune with 1/2 100octane and 1/2 93octane.

[Edub1]

With the SAFC and ITC you can add or retract timing with any scan tool. SO the ECU adding timing do to lack of airflow signal is really a non issue. I used a SAFC and a BTM and ran 20 psi...till I tossed a rod do to the casting/oiling issues with the KA.

WD

I don't know what you mean by ITC. The ECU looks at the MAF signal among others and adjusts the timing accordingly. It will fight whatever changes you make. If you increase injector size by 100% it will really confuse the ECU.

As for the so and so tunes, yes, they will work. But, these rely on a fixed timing retard based on guesstimated boost levels at a given load & RPM point. ECUs from turbo cars typically measure boost and retard timing dynamically - like a BTM.

If I was to order a so and so tune, I'd have them just adjust for injectors, and I'd use a BTM for timing.

When I am ready to post the info for my ECU swap, you will be amazed at how much controll it offers.

[j-z]

thanks for all the info. whats the biggest injector an afc can control?

[nismofly]

supposedly twice of stock

so technically 520

but i think theres people running 555's with it

[nissanfanatic]

Quote »I don't know what you mean by ITC.[/quote]

http://ca.dsm.org/tech-sitc.html

Quote »The ECU looks at the MAF signal among others and adjusts the timing accordingly. It will fight whatever changes you make. If you increase injector size by 100% it will really confuse the ECU.[/quote]No, you'll just have PW for 260cc injectors pushing 550cc injectors. The ECU will only make adjustments in closed loop to adjust Air/Fuel ratios to 14.7:1.

Quote »As for the so and so tunes, yes, they will work. But, these rely on a fixed timing retard based on guesstimated boost levels at a given load & RPM point. ECUs from turbo cars typically measure boost and retard timing dynamically - like a BTM.[/quote]Nissan turbocharged cars use MAFS systems. They work great. ECU tunes work great if you give a detailed list of modifications.

Quote »If I was to order a so and so tune, I'd have them just adjust for injectors, and I'd use a BTM for timing.

When I am ready to post the info for my ECU swap, you will be amazed at how much controll it offers.[/quote]I don't understand why... There are so many people right now proving that the avaliable ECU tunes work great for our cars. They are reliable and take very little effort to work. Sometimes simplicity is just a little better than an extra ~10-15whp...
Modified by nissanfanatic at 11:57 AM 4/3/2006

[Edub1]

I think the turbo Nissans like most cars also measure boost - I could be wrong. They are low boost anyway.

The thing is, unless you are able to anticipate exact boost at every given RPM & load point you are just guessing. Even if you can get good results on a dyno, there are so many variables on the road it is not likely that you have the best possible tune at any given time. This is why they tend to run rich - for safety.

I'm ditching the idea of the ecu swap, but my turbo tune is going to be fuel only with a BTM for timing. Why guess when for $200 I can have it spot on all the time.