I have a ka24de turbo that runs a megasquirt fuel management system. I purchased the car with the system, and although I am familiar with it, I have never installed one. Recently I have had troubles with my DB37 cable, and I purchased a new one. 2 days after changing my db37, I turn on my car, and hear a horrible rattling sound coming from the bottom end of my engine. I check the connections on my megasquirt relay board to make sure the engine isn’t just knocking due to misfire. The sound goes away but I am not sure if it is due to me securing the relay board or due to the car warming up.
The next day I turn the car on and hear the same sound except this time I realize that the intensity of the sound changes when I press or depress the clutch. I attempt to drive it to work but it dies on the way.
It is in my garage and I have been trying to diagnose what has happened.The car will turn on, but won't idle and is very hard to keep alive. The same rattling sound is coming from either the bottom end or the bell housing. It is definitely not timing chain rattle.
I compression tested the cylinders, and they are ok. I did not use my analog tester because I have forged pistons, and they don't get good compression unless the motor has been allowed to warm up.
I tested for spark, and all four cylinders are firing well.
I dropped the oil looking for metal shavings, and did not see anything unusual. I did not drop the oil pan because the cross member is in the way, and I am not confident I can pull the motor without ruining the megasquirt wiring harness.
While under the car I see a very large oil stains on the underbody of the car where the transmission meets the driveshaft. I drop the oil from the transmission and there is less than a quart in the transmission. This is when I believe I found the problem.
I remove the transmission, clutch and pressure plate. The clutch still has meat on it still. I have only changed clutches when I completely destroyed them, and I am unsure if this clutch is still ok. I have included pictures of the clutch, flywheel and pressure plate. There is some minor scoring on the clutch, flywheel and pressure plate, that I am unsure why it is there, or if it is ok. There is also a very minor rattle when I shake the clutch.
I then bolted the starter back onto flywheel and attempted to start the car, but it won't start. The engine is turning but it won't start. There is also a loud of metal on metal rubbing sound, that I don’t know if is normal. Perhaps this is a normal sound that is just louder due to there being no bell housing to muffle it?
Either way, I am unsure if my problem is the transmission, or the bottom end of the car. Before I start to buy the necessary parts I want to be confident that I know what the problem is. ANY input would be appreciated. Thank you.
Engine Diagnosis Help
Re: Engine Diagnosis Help (IanPerez)
First - You need to state the year, model, etc. of you engine as they're not all the same you know.
Wow! You've really torn into that baby trying to find your problem. First, I'll say that a bad clutch or drive line problem won't kill an engine (provided everythings not locked up), they're strictly mechanical and all you need is spark, air or fuel as I'm sure you know if you have enough aptitude to pull your transmission.
The cable incident was probably coincidental - if they flopping all over the engine compartment, get some tie wraps to anchor them.
From the pictures, hard to tell w/o being there, things look pretty normal on the clutch side - not sure of those half moon scallops on the flywheel, is the surface smooth? Even that wouldn't stop an engine from running.
You mentioned that when you shake the clutch disc you hear rattling? That's not normal as all there are are springs under tension and the riveted linings. They should all be tight.
My first guess when you said it was making noise and rattling was the flywheel sensor (the thing at the top right or the bell housing) though I'm not sure what year car you have, was loose or broke this has to see the flywheel rotating in order to release the fuel, at least on some models. Since your car won't start w/o the bell housing on, I suspect you have this sensor also.
How's your throw out bearing?
Wow! You've really torn into that baby trying to find your problem. First, I'll say that a bad clutch or drive line problem won't kill an engine (provided everythings not locked up), they're strictly mechanical and all you need is spark, air or fuel as I'm sure you know if you have enough aptitude to pull your transmission.
The cable incident was probably coincidental - if they flopping all over the engine compartment, get some tie wraps to anchor them.
From the pictures, hard to tell w/o being there, things look pretty normal on the clutch side - not sure of those half moon scallops on the flywheel, is the surface smooth? Even that wouldn't stop an engine from running.
You mentioned that when you shake the clutch disc you hear rattling? That's not normal as all there are are springs under tension and the riveted linings. They should all be tight.
My first guess when you said it was making noise and rattling was the flywheel sensor (the thing at the top right or the bell housing) though I'm not sure what year car you have, was loose or broke this has to see the flywheel rotating in order to release the fuel, at least on some models. Since your car won't start w/o the bell housing on, I suspect you have this sensor also.
How's your throw out bearing?
Re: Engine Diagnosis Help (dontbugme)
Don't be too sure about that.... the pic below is my main thrust bearing face after 1200 miles with an out of balanced and warped flywheel.... the thing tore the **** out of my bearings....dontbugme wrote:Wow! You've really torn into that baby trying to find your problem. First, I'll say that a bad clutch or drive line problem won't kill an engine (provided everythings not locked up), they're strictly mechanical and all you need is spark, air or fuel as I'm sure you know if you have enough aptitude to pull your transmission.
I would be guessing crank walk also... See how much your crank will move forwards and backwards... Thrust movement should be less than .010"... If your crank moves more than that I would suspect bearing issues... With the sound your describing, I would say your crank will move a LOT... You can use a pry bar behind the ballancer to move it forward and on your flywheel to move it backwards....
Re: (9sec240)
How would that affect not being able to start up? Not that I don't believe you guys or anything. I could definatly see the main bearings getting messed up due to crankshaft play, but I would think the vehicle would still start up...
Also, have you tried hooking the msefi up to a laptop? Would be worth checking for any sensors not reporting in or something else blaring wrong... You could also check msefi.com. They might be able to help a little more if the problem is in the msefi.
The rattling almost sounds to me like a transmission problem (letting off the clutch caused more problems, loose feelings in the stick shift). The problem starting may be something else though (I agree, bad clutch doesn't prevent a car from starting.)
Also, have you tried hooking the msefi up to a laptop? Would be worth checking for any sensors not reporting in or something else blaring wrong... You could also check msefi.com. They might be able to help a little more if the problem is in the msefi.
The rattling almost sounds to me like a transmission problem (letting off the clutch caused more problems, loose feelings in the stick shift). The problem starting may be something else though (I agree, bad clutch doesn't prevent a car from starting.)
Re: Engine Diagnosis Help (wild_maxx)
As I said crapped out bearings and crank walk won't prevent an engine from starting unless it's so seized it can't turn over. The OP is trying to start the car w/o the bell housing in place, hence the flywheel sensors not there. Sorry, but the engine will not fire without that sensor in place unless the Haltech uses something entirely different. Sounds to me like there are two unrelated problems. The more you look the more you find.