endless detonation

Information on the naturally-aspirated KA24E and KA24DE engines.
revlis240
Posts: 29
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2003 11:59 pm

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hey guys,let me start by describing my setup

New freshly built kaZ31 T3 turboLarge custom FMICCustom log mani2.5" mandrel dp85mm HKS Hi-power exhaustWalbro 190 fuel pump370cc injectors, Z32 fuel filterJWT ecu, tuned for 370cc, turbo, ka mafJWT POP charger

Heres what ive replaced, and checked, and checked again over the past 6 months:

Fuel filterair filterfuel pressurebase timinginjectorsmafcoilcap and rotorspark plugs, gaps, typesintake charge temps (101º highest it ever got)

heres the situation:when i first got the kat, i had this pinging, at 20º base timing, even at 1psi, it would ping. i retarded the timing to 15º and ran 6psi safely w.o pinging (much), and the car ran, but was slow.

one day i decide to run the stock ecu on the 370cc injectors, and it runs absolutely fine, (strange isnt it). started pinging above 7psi tho.

got tired of all the nonsense and drove to JWT to have them strap it to the dyno. they played with the ecu, said nothing was wrong as far as they could see, and richened up the ecu program. the car made 248rwhp at ~10 psi, and did not detonate nor misfire or anything on the dyno, which i believe showed 10.8:1 on the Horiba A/F wideband.

Jim and i went for a drive, and the car did fine on at 7psi, but at 9-10 psi, the pinging was VERY minor, but still present. Jim said to test the intake charge temps, and feared my ugly DP design may be a problem, along w/ my old stock plug wires. so i went home and began remedying this list of issues.

I changed the downpipe to 2.5" bandrel, smooth bends -- no change on detonation.

I changed the exhaust for fear of backpressure (i had 60mm) to 85mm -- no change in detonation

I checked the intake charge temps as i boosted 9psi for 1 minute + uphill on a hot day, 101º, lets say that the $15 walmart gauge was off 30º and its actually 131º, thats STILL not so bad.

I checked for air leaks, and found that the barb under the throttle plate was open and leading nowhere, plugged that and - no change in detonation.

The car will not detonate if i floor it in 5th and go from 50-80, but 50-110 itll start to detonate above 100. On certain nights, the detonation is LOUD and apparent, for no reason. Most of the time, if i top off 2nd and go to 3rd, i know itll ping 4k+ in 3rd.

For the love of god, i have tried EVERYTHING to remedy this problem, and not a soul seems to know what it could be. the ONLY thing i havent done is new spark plug wires, but id blame misfire on that, not detonation, eh?

Im at the end of my wits here. they say that the Z31 turbo may be bad for the KA, but it seems the other current thread would say otherwise. guys, HELP! :help :help

-Abe :confused:


TrunkMonkey
Posts: 3190
Joined: Sun Aug 04, 2002 7:48 am
Car: 2000 Lincoln Navigator

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check your EGR system.

-demetrius

revlis240
Posts: 29
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2003 11:59 pm

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egr system? you mean the one that i blocked off? :-)

-Abeno egr, no vacuum lines, no charcoal canister, no nada. just simplicity.

edit:well, i have 1 vac line that goes to the BOV, ans FPR, and btw the FPR has been replaced also...

TrunkMonkey
Posts: 3190
Joined: Sun Aug 04, 2002 7:48 am
Car: 2000 Lincoln Navigator

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has it always been blocked off or did you do it when you went turbo.

-demetrius

revlis240
Posts: 29
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2003 11:59 pm

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installed a block off plate when i went turbo, and removed the SCV system, eliminating the vacuum gallery at the back of the motor and making my life a lot simpler.

-Abe

U12 2NR
Posts: 367
Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2003 4:29 am

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did you remove the butterflies in the lower intake manifold?

revlis240
Posts: 29
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2003 11:59 pm

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yeah, but i left the rod in there

-Abe

TrunkMonkey
Posts: 3190
Joined: Sun Aug 04, 2002 7:48 am
Car: 2000 Lincoln Navigator

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life may be simpler, but your combustion chambers are a lot warmer without the EGR. you seem to have detonation problems only when you increase the load (boost or acceleration) on your engine.

if your sure you've exhausted every option, it may be time for you to upgrade your cooling system (i.e. radiator and cooling fans).

...and for god sakes get some new plug wires.

-demetrius

revlis240
Posts: 29
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2003 11:59 pm

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i have a 2 core radiator, and was under the impression that the EGR system does not work at WOT anyway? its only there during cruise to be more efficient. i swear thats in the FSM somewhere...

-Abe

TrunkMonkey
Posts: 3190
Joined: Sun Aug 04, 2002 7:48 am
Car: 2000 Lincoln Navigator

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revlis240 wrote:i have a 2 core radiator, and was under the impression that the EGR system does not work at WOT anyway? its only there during cruise to be more efficient. i swear thats in the FSM somewhere...
it doesn't. that's why you didn't get any detonation when you floored it in 5th. it operates at partial throttle.

-demetrius

revlis240
Posts: 29
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2003 11:59 pm

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but i thought you implied that because i dont have egr, thats why it detonates. but im saying, it detonates at WOT, and if the egr system isnt active at WOT anyway, then how can the lack of the egr system cause detonation at WOT?

-Abe

TrunkMonkey
Posts: 3190
Joined: Sun Aug 04, 2002 7:48 am
Car: 2000 Lincoln Navigator

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revlis240 wrote:but i thought you implied that because i dont have egr, thats why it detonates.

that's what i'm saying may be your problem.

but im saying, it detonates at WOT, and if the egr system isnt active at WOT anyway, then how can the lack of the egr system cause detonation at WOT?

reread your post. nowhere in your post did you say that your car detonated at WOT. in fact, you said it didn't detonate when you floored it in 5th, which i'm assuming means WOT. when you dynoed your car you were at WOT with a richer mixture, no detonation.

-demetrius

revlis240
Posts: 29
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2003 11:59 pm

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oh, sorry for the confusion,the car WILL detonate only at wot, nowhere else, and this is when i top off 2nd, and go into 3rd, etc...

-Abe

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WDRacing
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Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2002 2:00 am
Car: 95 240SX, 99 BMW 540i, 01 Chevy Express, 14 Ford Escape
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Wow, your list of have chgecked items is just about everything I can think of. Your positive that your injectors are good though? What percent knock are you getting, if you know. Of course anything audible is far to much. I would quite running high boost till its fixed.

Which cylinder is detonating the worst? Should be able to tell by the spark plugs.

WD

Pornflakes
Posts: 140
Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2003 7:36 am
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Just out of curiosity.....what compression are you getting in all 4 cylinders?

revlis240
Posts: 29
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2003 11:59 pm

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last i checked? about 180 all across

-Abe

TomsMR2
Posts: 441
Joined: Sun May 11, 2003 8:44 pm
Car: cars.. etc

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.. try colder plugs?

revlis240
Posts: 29
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2003 11:59 pm

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colder than 7 heat range? (tried that)

-Abe

Grandpa
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2002 10:25 am

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What kinda gap are you running on your spark plugs?

What were your EGTs on that A/F ratio you dynoed? What did the timing do? (I don't really trust JWT)

I'm leaning towards your ignition system. How old are your plug wires?

-john

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95_240sx
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Grandpa wrote:I don't really trust JWT


Werd.

Rick


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