Does anybody have the emanage ulitmate and what JUMPERS did you set up in your piggy back.
this is going in a 91 240 with a redtop SR
Modified by TRBOMOFO at 1:07 PM 10/15/2007
Emanage Ultimate
Re: (Hijacker)
In spite of what that S15 emanage install writeup says, I was told by CIPMotorsports to leave the jumpers alone. I'm still a little curious though, if you check the install manual, the table and then the explanation of the table on the following pages have conflicting information for jumper 17 i think. the Karman vs VTM type air metering jumper.
Anyway I just got mine installed and hooked up, set throttle position min/max, selected SR20DET(13) and set "Airflow Change To" VQ35DE since I just installed a Z32 MAF to go along with it. I was hoping the EMU would be easy enough for me to figure out but i must be missing something because the car starts and then stumbles and dies.. so i dunno. ill do more research tomorrow.
im surprised i cant find any S13 SR20DET info on the EMU. I guess its new enough and for $600 maybe people would rather get an enthalpy tune?
I'll have to call Jeff at CIP and see what he recommends. I remember him telling me that GReddy sent him a good working EMU map for 2871, Z32 maf and 555cc injectors. if he still has it that'd be awesome. if i make any headway i'll post my findings.
Re: (Neil)
Well, maybe i ought to thoroughly read instruction manuals from now on. I have a habit of considering them simply the manufacturers opinion on how to use a product. I'm my own man, make my own rules, etc.
Had I read the user manual I would have learned two things.One, that after modifying a setting value, you have to use the Map Select tab under Parameters and select what value you wish to apply to your map.And Two, once you do so you have to Export the map to the EMU or no changes will take place.
For reference, to get a Z32 air mass meter working on an S13 SR20DET, you must do the following:
Parameters menu > vehicle tabEngine code: SR20DET(13)Airflow Change To: VQ30DET>map select tab>check 'Airflow Adjustment'Click OKClick save, and name your map.Then click the Export button when connected to the EMU. everything should work fine from there.
I did not touch any of the internal jumpers, though I may because I feel the knock sensor is a valuable thing to use.
Had I read the user manual I would have learned two things.One, that after modifying a setting value, you have to use the Map Select tab under Parameters and select what value you wish to apply to your map.And Two, once you do so you have to Export the map to the EMU or no changes will take place.
For reference, to get a Z32 air mass meter working on an S13 SR20DET, you must do the following:
Parameters menu > vehicle tabEngine code: SR20DET(13)Airflow Change To: VQ30DET>map select tab>check 'Airflow Adjustment'Click OKClick save, and name your map.Then click the Export button when connected to the EMU. everything should work fine from there.
I did not touch any of the internal jumpers, though I may because I feel the knock sensor is a valuable thing to use.
Re: (Hijacker)
next project will be installing my 555cc injectors. I imagine their setup will be just as easy. I'm not looking to tune the car right up to the hairy edge, I'm just looking to be able to make decent use of my GT2871.
I am comforted by the fact that the EMU is as accommodating as it is. Since it was developed with popular Japanese cars in mind, they've done most of the work for you. You need only supply what air/fuel modifications you've made and it applies it the o.e.m. ignition and injector timing map, which is great for me since I don't know d!ck about legitimate tuning (yet).
once I get the injectors in I'll take it to get dyno'd and have them tune my boost controller and check air/fuel and make adjustments if anything comes up risky. if I hit 280whp on an economical tune I'll be very pleased. supposedly my setup is capable of almost 400hp so i dont think 280 is much to ask
I am comforted by the fact that the EMU is as accommodating as it is. Since it was developed with popular Japanese cars in mind, they've done most of the work for you. You need only supply what air/fuel modifications you've made and it applies it the o.e.m. ignition and injector timing map, which is great for me since I don't know d!ck about legitimate tuning (yet).
once I get the injectors in I'll take it to get dyno'd and have them tune my boost controller and check air/fuel and make adjustments if anything comes up risky. if I hit 280whp on an economical tune I'll be very pleased. supposedly my setup is capable of almost 400hp so i dont think 280 is much to ask
Re: (Neil)
bump. I installed my 555's, compensated for them and the car runs "OK".
It's a dog until warmed up, It breaks up in high rpm's and is running rich. Timing must be all over the place because it isn't smooth under power either.
I knew I would need to get the e-manage tuned to meet my goal but I didn't anticipate it would need to be tuned just to be nice to drive. Chalk it up to wishful thinking and lack of research, I guess...
either way I'm getting it tuned this coming week and I'll bump the thread again with my results.
p.s. for the love of god, recirculate your bov if your maf is pre-turbo.
It's a dog until warmed up, It breaks up in high rpm's and is running rich. Timing must be all over the place because it isn't smooth under power either.
I knew I would need to get the e-manage tuned to meet my goal but I didn't anticipate it would need to be tuned just to be nice to drive. Chalk it up to wishful thinking and lack of research, I guess...
either way I'm getting it tuned this coming week and I'll bump the thread again with my results.
p.s. for the love of god, recirculate your bov if your maf is pre-turbo.
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Hijacker
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Did you ever talk to Jeff about that EMU map for a 2871 and 555 injectors?
I was also under the impression that the EMU had a learning program on it that would formulate a base map for you based on injector size, MAF voltage, and base timing. The ROM would take those factors and give you a base fuel map to get you in the ballpark and then let the user fine tune the map to the car's individual needs.
Have you checked your base timing with the current setup? If timing's all over the place, it could be as simple as resetting your base timing and going from there. It could also be a high fuel pressure. I've come to the realization lately that most SRs running a stock FPR and a high output fuel pump are experiencing too high fuel pressure which is causing an increased rich state. I've also had a few tired, stock injectors fail because of the high fuel pressure. I'd double check to see if you're running the correct pressure (should be 43.5 psi without the vac source attached and 36-ish I think with the vac source attached)
And while I have no experience with the EMU as of yet, are you positive that the computer knows you have 555s in? If it thinks you have smaller injectors, it will open them all the way up to try and keep up with the incoming airflow and would in essence dump a metric ton of fuel into the cylinders.
I was also under the impression that the EMU had a learning program on it that would formulate a base map for you based on injector size, MAF voltage, and base timing. The ROM would take those factors and give you a base fuel map to get you in the ballpark and then let the user fine tune the map to the car's individual needs.
Have you checked your base timing with the current setup? If timing's all over the place, it could be as simple as resetting your base timing and going from there. It could also be a high fuel pressure. I've come to the realization lately that most SRs running a stock FPR and a high output fuel pump are experiencing too high fuel pressure which is causing an increased rich state. I've also had a few tired, stock injectors fail because of the high fuel pressure. I'd double check to see if you're running the correct pressure (should be 43.5 psi without the vac source attached and 36-ish I think with the vac source attached)
And while I have no experience with the EMU as of yet, are you positive that the computer knows you have 555s in? If it thinks you have smaller injectors, it will open them all the way up to try and keep up with the incoming airflow and would in essence dump a metric ton of fuel into the cylinders.
Re: (Hijacker)
The map Jeff has turned out to be for the eManage blue, which I'm not sure is compatible. Also the 'self learn' feature necessitates a wideband O2 sensor which I don't have. I may buy one, though.. because if I'm not mistaken the EMU can run off a wideband to replace the o.e. one altogether.
Timing was spot-on before installing the EMU. I'm not sure if/why the unit would alter the base timing but I did not double check after getting it up and running.
As far as fuel goes I never ran rich with the 370's. When I first got the motor I hooked up a gauge and fuel pressure was proper with the stock FPR and walbro pump. That is not to say the FPR hasn't declined in health, but since installing the injectors there's been an obvious effect, which I'm hesitant to believe could coincidentally be caused by the FPR's sudden death. Also yes I'm sure it's set for 555cc injectors. It wasn't turn-key after inputting the flow rate values so I double-checked what I had input and it was right. It turned out to merely be flooded.
I talked to Jeff again recently and he recited my specific symptoms before I could even get the words out. He's done the installation for a few customers and apparently the way my car is running is hardly uncommon. My guess is that GReddy engineered the unit to make absolutely sure your car won't blow up on the way to the dyno, at the expense of a temporary downgrade in drivability.
Speaking of which, I never did get tuned due to schedule conflicts but I finally have an appointment set for next Wednesday. ..if it isn't snowing
Timing was spot-on before installing the EMU. I'm not sure if/why the unit would alter the base timing but I did not double check after getting it up and running.
As far as fuel goes I never ran rich with the 370's. When I first got the motor I hooked up a gauge and fuel pressure was proper with the stock FPR and walbro pump. That is not to say the FPR hasn't declined in health, but since installing the injectors there's been an obvious effect, which I'm hesitant to believe could coincidentally be caused by the FPR's sudden death. Also yes I'm sure it's set for 555cc injectors. It wasn't turn-key after inputting the flow rate values so I double-checked what I had input and it was right. It turned out to merely be flooded.
I talked to Jeff again recently and he recited my specific symptoms before I could even get the words out. He's done the installation for a few customers and apparently the way my car is running is hardly uncommon. My guess is that GReddy engineered the unit to make absolutely sure your car won't blow up on the way to the dyno, at the expense of a temporary downgrade in drivability.
Speaking of which, I never did get tuned due to schedule conflicts but I finally have an appointment set for next Wednesday. ..if it isn't snowing
Re: (Neil)
k so VR didn't want to touch my "piece of ****" profec boost controller, so at 11psi I got these numbers:
as you can see at the first run, my AFR goes ludicrously rich at ~5500rpm. Apparently this is an intentional feature so you don't blow up your motor and try to hold GReddy liable. All VR did was flatten out the AFR from that point on and it pulls nicely all the way to redline. I have to hook my boost controller back up but at under 12psi i'm impressed enough that it's making almost 260hp to the ground. 300hp should be easy at 14psi.
We figured out my strange drivability, too. Fouled spark plugs. I would like to lean it out a little, but that would necessitate a good amount of tuning with ignition and fuel timing I think, and I'd rather just change my plugs ever year than go through 600$ of dyno time for a piggy-back setup.
as you can see at the first run, my AFR goes ludicrously rich at ~5500rpm. Apparently this is an intentional feature so you don't blow up your motor and try to hold GReddy liable. All VR did was flatten out the AFR from that point on and it pulls nicely all the way to redline. I have to hook my boost controller back up but at under 12psi i'm impressed enough that it's making almost 260hp to the ground. 300hp should be easy at 14psi.
We figured out my strange drivability, too. Fouled spark plugs. I would like to lean it out a little, but that would necessitate a good amount of tuning with ignition and fuel timing I think, and I'd rather just change my plugs ever year than go through 600$ of dyno time for a piggy-back setup.
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TRBOMOFO
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with my ultimate and stock injectors i was running rich as hell too
i did get rid of the reciculate
i had to pull -15% feul out and interpolate all the way down
i did modify my jumbers a bit but i cant remember which ones i will have to go look
we could probably save the maps on here and share them if you want i will have to go get the labtop mine is on
i am running alittle lean in part and no throttle but once i get into throttle it pulls so smooth and nice
i did get rid of the reciculate
i had to pull -15% feul out and interpolate all the way down
i did modify my jumbers a bit but i cant remember which ones i will have to go look
we could probably save the maps on here and share them if you want i will have to go get the labtop mine is on
i am running alittle lean in part and no throttle but once i get into throttle it pulls so smooth and nice
Re: (TRBOMOFO)
the 'strange drivability' i mentioned earlier was NOT fouled plugs. The EManage was randomly spiking the injector duty cycle to 99% and every spike felt like a misfire. It was also somehow misinterpreting the MAF signal (maintain one load and the datalog would fluctuate). Then another firmware update came out which cleared up the injector spikes but overall it was still far from being decent to drive.
Then I finally accepted the fact that since I don't have an OBD-II car, using a piggy-back ECU instead of standalone management wasn't the best idea, and I realized that I don't need the flexibility of being able to re-tune my car every month, so I sold my emanage and got a rom tune from E-Mance for $135 (installed the d.board myself and saved $40).
My car runs awesome now. I also have my glove box back.
Modified by Neil at 11:13 PM 4/23/2008
Then I finally accepted the fact that since I don't have an OBD-II car, using a piggy-back ECU instead of standalone management wasn't the best idea, and I realized that I don't need the flexibility of being able to re-tune my car every month, so I sold my emanage and got a rom tune from E-Mance for $135 (installed the d.board myself and saved $40).
My car runs awesome now. I also have my glove box back.
Modified by Neil at 11:13 PM 4/23/2008
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hungryjoseph
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Re: (Neil)
I know this thread's a couple months old but I had a question
did you ever get it dynoed with the rom tune from emance? I'd like to see the a/f and power between the two. I'm considering emanage right now because I have the NA s14 sr ecu, and emance, wolf, enthalpy, or any local shops offer a tune for it
did you ever get it dynoed with the rom tune from emance? I'd like to see the a/f and power between the two. I'm considering emanage right now because I have the NA s14 sr ecu, and emance, wolf, enthalpy, or any local shops offer a tune for it
Re: (hungryjoseph)
I have not yet gotten my car dyno'd with the e-mance tune.
Do you have a DET with a DE ecu? scour ebay, nissan ecu's pop up frequently.
Do you have a DET with a DE ecu? scour ebay, nissan ecu's pop up frequently.
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hungryjoseph
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Re: (Neil)
"na" is what the ecu is called for the kouki s14 sr20det
Re: (hungryjoseph)
ah yeah, i knew that, too >_<
well.. based on my experience, if you cant find a rom tune solution, I would still stay away from e-manage and consider the Apex-i replacement ecu (easy, popular) or another standalone setup. It might take a month longer to save up for but after the $400 either setup is going to need for tuning, the potential definitely exists for you to be disappointed that the e-manage isn't running as well as you had hoped and that you are faced with living with it or spending the money again on standalone and then trying to recoup your expenses by selling the emanage.
It just sounds worth it to me in your situation to save up the extra $150-$300 for standalone to know you're not going to have any bs problems that are inherent with going piggyback.
Modified by Neil at 11:48 PM 6/23/2008
well.. based on my experience, if you cant find a rom tune solution, I would still stay away from e-manage and consider the Apex-i replacement ecu (easy, popular) or another standalone setup. It might take a month longer to save up for but after the $400 either setup is going to need for tuning, the potential definitely exists for you to be disappointed that the e-manage isn't running as well as you had hoped and that you are faced with living with it or spending the money again on standalone and then trying to recoup your expenses by selling the emanage.
It just sounds worth it to me in your situation to save up the extra $150-$300 for standalone to know you're not going to have any bs problems that are inherent with going piggyback.
Modified by Neil at 11:48 PM 6/23/2008
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romerider153
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Re: (Neil)
get a power fc way better
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hungryjoseph
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Re: (romerider153)
the reason I don't want a standalone is because I'm sticking with the stock t28, so for a motor with just botl ons, why do I need to spend almost 1500 - 2000$ total in tuning for a 40whp gain?
Re: (hungryjoseph)
Why would you spend $600 for 40hp either??
Or more specifically, If you're sticking with the T28, what reason have you got to even consider additional fuel management at all?? Please don't tell me you want to tune for an open element intake filter and large diameter exhaust system.
And your estimate is a bit high. if you do it right, you can easily get a PFC and tuning for well under $1500 total. But that's what you have to pay to do it right, which you're apparently not doing if you're inflexible about doing real mods and just want to "get the most" out of your "bolt ons".
Get a boost controller and don't go over 14psi. There, I just saved you $1200.
No hard feelings, man.. but honestly, just because it's a j-spec turbo engine doesn't mean basic bolt ons are any more worth spending nearly a thousand dollars to compensate for than if it were a civic. A FMIC and cams will even make noticeable gains on the stock tune.
Modified by Neil at 11:51 AM 6/24/2008
Or more specifically, If you're sticking with the T28, what reason have you got to even consider additional fuel management at all?? Please don't tell me you want to tune for an open element intake filter and large diameter exhaust system.
And your estimate is a bit high. if you do it right, you can easily get a PFC and tuning for well under $1500 total. But that's what you have to pay to do it right, which you're apparently not doing if you're inflexible about doing real mods and just want to "get the most" out of your "bolt ons".
Get a boost controller and don't go over 14psi. There, I just saved you $1200.
No hard feelings, man.. but honestly, just because it's a j-spec turbo engine doesn't mean basic bolt ons are any more worth spending nearly a thousand dollars to compensate for than if it were a civic. A FMIC and cams will even make noticeable gains on the stock tune.
Modified by Neil at 11:51 AM 6/24/2008
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romerider153
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Re: (Neil)
i got my d jetro pfc and sensor kit for a little under 1200 and in my opinion it is worth every penny bolt ons or not, plug it in car starts right up you got all the functions youll ever need not to mention it can be 8 gauges in one that will store your highest values of a run real convent for a person whos goin to street tune you can monitor knocks so get that and a wide band and your good to go
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hungryjoseph
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Re: (Neil)
the t28 is all I need for my car and 370cc injectors are not enough for the turbo. I tuned the safc on the dyno and was able to make 251to the wheels on 11psi, 16+whp from before it was tuned on the safc. It's not the fact that it's a "j-spec turbo engine", it's the fact that I want to run a little more boost, and that little more boost should set me at the power that I want. I don't mind spendin cash to buy injectors and n62 maf and headgasket, but I just can't find myself to justify using a standalone for a nearly stock motor. I'd stil be doing it right with a rom tune, and the reason I ask about the emanage is because it can tune ignition timing and many other things that other piggybacks don't doNeil wrote:Why would you spend $600 for 40hp either??
Or more specifically, If you're sticking with the T28, what reason have you got to even consider additional fuel management at all?? Please don't tell me you want to tune for an open element intake filter and large diameter exhaust system.
And your estimate is a bit high. if you do it right, you can easily get a PFC and tuning for well under $1500 total. But that's what you have to pay to do it right, which you're apparently not doing if you're inflexible about doing real mods and just want to "get the most" out of your "bolt ons".
Get a boost controller and don't go over 14psi. There, I just saved you $1200.
No hard feelings, man.. but honestly, just because it's a j-spec turbo engine doesn't mean basic bolt ons are any more worth spending nearly a thousand dollars to compensate for than if it were a civic. A FMIC and cams will even make noticeable gains on the stock tune.
Modified by Neil at 11:51 AM 6/24/2008
if I'm going to go standalone, I will just upgrade the turbo
Re: (hungryjoseph)
I understand. I just think you should shake the stigma that only fully built motors justify a quality management setup. The tune is more important than what brand internals you've got, and like i've said, my concern is that you're going to spend loot on the e-manage to end up with it not running as well as you thought you could get it to when you can avoid that situation altogether by spending a little more money up front on going standalone. ..if you can't sort out a daughterboard/rom tune setup for the stock ecu. that is.
I mean, I'm speaking from experience.. I bought the e-manage because it was cheaper and I assumed it would work fine for the 18psi goal I had in mind. After all the BS hurdles I had to overcome with the GReddy software being a complete POS and the unit itself not functioning properly even after patching the firmware with 3 new updates... and even after finally getting it as tuned as my shop felt was safe for a piggyback, it still felt like **** to drive.
I mean, I'm speaking from experience.. I bought the e-manage because it was cheaper and I assumed it would work fine for the 18psi goal I had in mind. After all the BS hurdles I had to overcome with the GReddy software being a complete POS and the unit itself not functioning properly even after patching the firmware with 3 new updates... and even after finally getting it as tuned as my shop felt was safe for a piggyback, it still felt like **** to drive.
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hungryjoseph
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Re: (Neil)
I'm ditching the SR, and thanks for the info on the emanage
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romerider153
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Re: (hungryjoseph)
just like that no more sr what you get a killer deal on an rb with in the last 10 hours
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hungryjoseph
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Re: (romerider153)
no lol