emails and global warming

[audtatious]

So, hackers have taken 160MB of email data from the Climate Research Unit (CRU) at the University of East Anglia (UEA) in England. They have also distributed the contents of said emails...

Snippets:

"trick of adding in the real temps to each series ... to hide the decline [in temperature]."- Professor Phil Jones, the head of the Climate Research Unit, and professor Michael E. Mann at Pennsylvania State University...In a NYTimes article, Mann states that "trick" refers to a good way to solve a problem. Of course, that does not explain "hide the decline in termperature"

"If they ever hear there is a Freedom of Information Act now in the UK, I think I'll delete the file rather than send to anyone""We also have a data protection act, which I will hide behind."- Jones to Mann again

"where the heck is global warming?... The fact is that we can't account for the lack of warming at the moment and it is a travesty that we can't."- I don't have the scientists name for this one nor whom it was sent to....

"I think we have to stop considering Climate Research as a legitimate peer-reviewed journal. Perhaps we should encourage our colleagues in the climate research community to no longer submit to, or cite papers in, this journal. "- after Jones complains to Mann about a challenging article in the peer review journal Climate Research. This is Mann's response. So, those who are against global warming views have no proof because their data is not submitted to peer-review journals, yet when one is submitted the journal is no longer a supported peer-review publication? How quaint.

"It's one thing to lose Climate Research. We can't afford to lose GRL." - Mann concerning another anti-MMGW article in a peer review magazine

"If you think that Saiers is in the greenhouse skeptics camp, then, if we can find documentary evidence of this, we could go through official AGU [American Geophysical Union] channels to get him ousted." - CRU Tom Wigley concerning another editorial. They actually pressed forward and the editor was removed: "The GRL leak may have been plugged up now with new editorial leadership there."

"All of them know the sorts of things to say without any prompting."- Jones with a list of friendly reviewers that will rubber-stamp their work

"I can't see either of these papers being in the next IPCC report. K and I will keep them out somehow—even if we have to redefine what the peer-review literature is!"- K = Kevin Trenberth (or Keith Biffa?) and I believe the originator is Jones. In effect, this, along with the above, show how the "scientists" are manipulating peer review mags/journals along with the data actually used via IPCC

"I wanted you guys to know that you're free to use RC in any way you think would be helpful. Gavin and I are going to be careful about what comments we screen through. We can hold comments up in the queue and contact you about whether or not you think they should be screened through or not, and if so, any comments you'd like us to include.

[T]hink of RC as a resource that is at your disposal. We'll use our best discretion to make sure the skeptics don't get to use the RC comments as a megaphone. "- from Mann to Osborne and Keith Biffa concerning the control they have over RealClimate.org. More manipulation to stagnate dissent.

A bunch of these emails are available to view online if you search and some of the above are just portions of emails. I've read quite a few of the whole emails and I'm laughing at some of the spin that is being pressed forward concerning the details.

[RobPaulson]

I LOL'd when I read all of this at first. Thinking 'told you so' ... then I realized this completely discredits science in general to (I'm guessing) a large portion of the population. Which is a huge step backwards, this is an amazing exposure of the truth but a huge blow to the scientific community's credibility... it really is too bad.

That being said I am glad its exposed, its just too bad the truth had to come at the price of the credibility of the scientific community.

[audtatious]

Considering that the data used for all the reports have consistently been denied access to, from Mann to NASA, it's a big scam and has been. Cherry picked data and mathematical adjustments are the norm.

[RobPaulson]

I'm not sure what you mean by your response, are you saying this is normal in the scientific community, it just happens to have been on a larger, higher profile subject in this case?

[audtatious]

It's normal for those pressing forth MMGW to hide behind unreleased data.

The Competitive Enterprise Institute has just filed three Notices of Intent for a lawsuit against NASA and the Goddard Institute for Space Studies for their 3-year refusal to release documents as requested under the Freedom of Information Act concerning global warming. Mann and others have also consistently refused to release their data and it was only after a peer review forced him to release data that the tree ring data was shown to be cherry picked and inaccurate.

Yet, we are still supposed to accept MMGW as fact "just because"

[breadbox]

Bout time.

[AZhitman]

Algore says it's real. Therefore, I believe it.



Whatever will the Lefties do when all their pseudo-scientists are exposed as frauds and charlatans?

Oh, that's right - They'll prattle on and on about the Right's "agenda"... which in this case is simply the pursuit of TRUTH.

[audtatious]

No, they are simply throwing out some lame excuses while calling themselves "human" for being frustrated at the anti-MMGW stuff being published while claiming their data is beyond reproach and infallible while those who use their data to prove their method is faulty are fakes and frauds.

[BusyBadger]

Algore says it's real. Therefore, I believe it.

Since he also invented the internet you'd think he would have stopped the haX0rs from getting all this out. Or, at the very least introduced some legislation to limit their computer usage based on the carbon footprint of their PCs.

[AZhitman]

I'd be perfectly happy if he'd introduce legislation to outlaw patchouli and Birkenstocks.

[bigbadberry3]

That being said I am glad its exposed, its just too bad the truth had to come at the price of the credibility of the scientific community.

IMO, that's the worst thing. Not that they were wrong but they supposedly purposely mislead the public. Definitely an embarrassment t for science.

[dusred]

When I first saw the story about the emails I was skeptical and I'll tell you why.

First off I've got to give Al Gore and his goons (I know I'm gonna get hell for this) the benefit of a doubt because these emails didn't come through a legit source, they came through hackers.

Next, if anyone is actually stupid enough to send information like that through email I seriously don't think they would be smart enough to pull off the biggest scam in history (global warming).

With that said I've gotta admit that I think the emails are legit BECAUSE they support my belief that GW is a scam. However I'm not going to take them as gospel until they are proven to be legit.

[audtatious]

They've admitted the emails are real so I dunno where you are going with that.

[BusyBadger]

I'd be perfectly happy if he'd introduce legislation to outlaw patchouli and Birkenstocks.

Aren't there already some air quality standards that can be applied in cases like these?

[RobPaulson]

who saw this one coming?

So now the IPCC is denying everything. Basically saying "nuh uh! It's not true! Look! It went through the peer review process! It can't be flawed? .... oh where is the data? hhmmm ... manbearpig. Manbearpig took it."

LOL joking aside, this is an actual quote... kind of scary.

"Every single comment that an expert reviewer provides has to be answered either by acceptance of the comment, or if it is not accepted, the reasons have to be clearly specified. So I think it is a very transparent, a very comprehensive process which insures that even if someone wants to leave out a piece of peer reviewed literature there is virtually no possibility of that happening."-Rajendra Pachauri

How can you defend yourself using by using the 'peer review process' as evidence of your validity when the peer review process is the very thing in question at this point!?

[audtatious]

That's kinda like me using my wife to validate some technical paper I wrote. Rubber stamped all the way.

[RobPaulson]

you know what I see in all this?

"OH CRAP! ... ok guys, brainstorming session... how do we keep our jobs that were created and based on complete lies corruption and conspiracy?!"

most likely they will further tarnish the legitimacy of the scientific community by trying whatever they are going to do. it is just embarrassing at this point. all of these people should be prosecuted and burned for their deceit and lies.

[audtatious]

The problem with the MMGW "scientists" is they are using incomplete data, or completely manipulated data, to reach a pre-determined conclusion. They are ignoring the unknowns and trying to play "hide the bottle" since Mother Nature has not been following any of their predictions. Temps have not been going up (pretty even or actually dropping), the ice caps are not melting, sea levels have not risen, etc etc....The UN is all for anything which will give them greater powers. Cap & Trade initiatives in other countries have been a bust and have only made life more difficult for providers of energy to the masses while lining a select few's pocketbooks. I really hope that Obama does not throw his hat in with the UN and others at the Copenhagen meeting

[RobPaulson]

The problem with the MMGW "scientists" is they are using incomplete data, or completely manipulated data, to reach a pre-determined conclusion. They are ignoring the unknowns and trying to play "hide the bottle" since Mother Nature has not been following any of their predictions.

I don't understand what peoples problem is with accepting the idea of 'i just don't know'. So much action was taken based off this data, but none of the voices speaking out about it were heard because so many people latched onto the idea of 'knowing' what was going on. Accepting the unknown is part of the scientific process.

I say promote doubt in this situation. We honestly have no real idea what peoples problem is with accepting the unknown. To quote a brilliant man:

I think nature’s imagination is so much greater than man’s. She’s never going to let us relax.

Why is it so hard to think that we just dont get it yet?

[AZhitman]

This weekend, I heard some clips of an interview with Ed Begley (he's a real proponent of the greenie lifestyle, which I completely support - until it starts infringing on MY right)...

Anyway, I have lost any and all respect for him and his type... He was completely irrational and ridiculous, in his fervent, zealous defense of the MMGW position.

He kept yelling at the interviewer: "Stop saying that!!!" when confronted with the possibility that MMGW might indeed be a flawed conclusion.

Lemme see if I can find it....

Reminded me of a spoiled child or a religious zealot. I thought lefties were all about freedom of speech?

"STOP SAYING THAT!!!"

Ed Begley, YOU are a clown. And a moron. And if the media was worth a damn, they'd point out your absurd hypocrisy and zealotry.

[AZhitman]

Here we go: http://www.postchronicle.com/n...shtml

"STOP SAYING THAT!!!"



Ed, I hope your grass-covered roof leaks.

[audtatious]

Dude lives in a mansion, WTF is he talking about?

He sums things up quite well.....He thinks the direction to "solve" MMGW is like an insurance policy. Lots of people are that way and want to avoid the "what if" regardless of cost.

[RobPaulson]

wow... that video is ridiculous ...

people like this need to realize and hear what we are saying, environmentalism is great. making things more efficient and cleaner is great. imposing government regulation based on lies and false data is completely unacceptable though. I dont care how 'green' its helped make people. it's just not right.

not to mention this guy is doing nothing for his cause, flipping out, yelling and pointing your finger at people just makes you look like an uneducated emotional douche.
Modified by RobPaulson at 5:06 PM 11/30/2009

[BusyBadger]

wow... that video is ridiculous ...

Agreed.

He comes off like a raving lunatic or is it a close-minded zealot, whichever (or both) it certainly won't do his "side" any favours. I can't believe he actually brings Easy-Bake Ovens into the arguement.

[audtatious]

He's one of those who like to believe that man is evil and killing mother earth. MMGW causes heat, heat will kill the planet, incandescent bulbs cause heat, thus, incandescent bulbs cause heat and heat causes MMGW so light bulbs cause MMGW....

Makes sense in a psycho-mental way.

[AZhitman]

people like this need to realize and hear what we are saying, environmentalism is great. making things more efficient and cleaner is great. imposing government regulation based on lies and false data is completely unacceptable though. I dont care how 'green' its helped make people. it's just not right.

BRILLIANTLY-stated.

[audtatious]

Al Gore on the upcoming conference:

“Even a final treaty will have to set the stage for other tougher reductions at a later date,” he said. “We have already overshot the safe levels of CO2 in the atmosphere.”

“We are gamb|ing with the future of human civilisation in accepting odds that by any definition make our present course reckless"

He also stated that we need to implement international carbon taxes and that the US needs to cut carbon emissions by 17% before 2020. I do find it interesting that James Hansen, father of CO2 MMGW, has condemned both Gore and the Copenhagen meeting for their focus on carbon markets as a solution to climate change.

Finally, he states that the scientific consensus "continues to grow from strength to strength”. He added: “The naysayers are in a sunset phase with a spectacular climax just before they subside from view. This is a race between common sense and unreality.”

What a tool

[BusyBadger]

What a tool

You should use another word. Tool implies that he has a useful purpose.

[RobPaulson]

the fact that people buy into what al gore says makes me sad for my fellow man. why are people so stupid? i just don't get it. Audt your post put me in a bad mood. Then i saw this article.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/ear....html

Quote »"We thought they were not going to have many cars, due to it being a climate convention," she says. "But it seems that somebody last week looked at the weather report."

Ms Jorgensen reckons that between her and her rivals the total number of limos in Copenhagen next week has already broken the 1,200 barrier. The French alone rang up on Thursday and ordered another 42. "We haven't got enough limos in the country to fulfil the demand," she says. "We're having to drive them in hundreds of miles from Germany and Sweden."

And the total number of electric cars or hybrids among that number? "Five," says Ms Jorgensen. "The government has some alternative fuel cars but the rest will be petrol or diesel. We don't have any hybrids in Denmark, unfortunately, due to the extreme taxes on those cars. It makes no sense at all, but it's very Danish."[/quote]awesome. Way to live your cause.
Modified by RobPaulson at 8:52 AM 12/7/2009

[AZhitman]

Algore remains an enemy of the environment until he gives up his outdated jet, his limousines and his bigass houses.

He's a charlatan and a fraud.