Electronic Ign on an E1

[mklotz70]

    Okay...this hasn't been completely proven yet, but it's 90%

PalisadesPark(James) and I were talking about this months ago.....could an L series dizzy be mounted up to an E series motor....or in his case a J series.  James hasn't had time to  play with it yet, but he did call me the other day and say that he thought it would be a matter of simply changing the drive coupling on the end of it.

Well, I got the E1's on to the eng stands and had a couple extra min to play with the idea.  I didn't put the calipers to it, but it looks like it will work just fine.  The shaft is a bit shorter on the EI dizzy, but I think it engages just fine.  I should mention that that E1 came out of a '65 L320 and the mounting for the dizzy is a bit different than whats on the '64 E1. 

First, the stock dizzy.
[img]http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k162/ ... 1Alta1.jpg[/img]

Much different drive coupling than the L series dizzy.  You can see the L series end in pic 7.
[img]http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k162/ ... 1Alta2.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k162/ ... 1Alta3.jpg[/img]


The L series has the "cup" around the end of the shaft.  Some are plastic, some are metal, but they do the same thing. 
[img]http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k162/ ... 1Alta4.jpg[/img]


Couplings removed off of each dizzy.  Everything still looks pretty close
[img]http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k162/ ... 1Alta5.jpg[/img]


The slot wouldn't allow the bolt to go back in, so I had to file it just a bit...approx. 1/16"?  You'll need the metric bolt from the EI dizzy since the stock one is SAE.
[img]http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k162/ ... 1Alta6.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k162/ ... 1Alta7.jpg[/img]


The stock drive coupling went back onto the EI dizzy very nicely   There's a small amount of endplay(don't forget the shim or you'll have a lot!), but I don't think it's anymore or less than all dizzy's have.
[img]http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k162/ ... 1Alta8.jpg[/img]


Okay....here it is mounted up.  The drive coupling engages....I'll have to measure how much, but I think it's close to 1/8"....so that should be plenty.  The dizzy is in a different orientation than the stock one.  It would be the same if the adj. plate could be flipped over.  It has a raised area that goes over the adj screw.  If I cut the plate or fab a new one, I can put the vac adv back on top. 
[img]http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k162/ ... 1Alta9.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k162/ ... Altaa1.jpg[/img]

Okay.... I won't know how this turns out until I get the motor back in and fired up.....which won't be for a few weeks most likely.

I put the thread here since there isn't a "how to" or "projects" section

First time using photobucket on a thread like this.  Easy to use, but I miss not seeing the pics right in the thread.  I need to post some of this else where so I figured it'd be faster than having to upload the pics multiple times.

[IMH]

I remember reading somewhere about this being done with a B210 distrubutor but I don't remember where.  I like your setup better.  Does it really matter where the advance is as long as you can adjust the dist?  All you need now is a 280Z coil and to remove or bypass the ballast resistor.  Keep us posted on how it all works out.  I've been wanting EI on my 320 for some time now.  I tried the Pertronix but couldn't get it to work.

[71-521]

Mike...good post...this will come in handy really soon...

I edited your posting to where the pics are inline...

for some reason, I have to use IE to get this forum to show the "insert image" icon (4th from the right) to allow linking to off-site photo's...it doesn't show it to me when I use firefox...

 

 

[mklotz70]

I can't stand using IE so I guess I never see that icon.   Thanks for switching it. 

I'm not going to be firing this up for a few weeks, but after I pressure washed the eng today, I pulled the dizzy back out and did some measuring.  I took pics, but there's not much reason to post them.  I wanted to get this info out so that others could do this swap instead of waiting for me. 

The measurements say that it's a perfect fit!!!!  The dizzy base that goes into the block is exactly the same size.  The dia. of the shaft that the couplings go on are the same size.  The end play is about .025, but I don't think that is too much.....if someone knows better, please let me know. 

The shaft on the EI dizzy is about .100 shorter, but the stock coupling fully engages in the drive piece in the engine... which is .200.  The shaft is long enough to go past the tapered section in the hole, so....basically....it should work just fine. 

When installing the dizzy, it sits up .200(1/5th of an inch...so more than an 1/8") until you line up the drive coupling....then it drops in nicely.  There is still .025 end play in the shaft when the dizzy is seated, which means that it's not bottoming out, which would cause binding.  I confirmed everything with the calipers.......so.......

I'm completely convinced that the L series EI dizzy will work in the E1, with the coupling swap outlined above!

According to Bre620, the E1's and J series motors can interchange dizzies.....so, that means that this swap should work for those out there with J series motors!

The only thing left it to see if the plate allows enough adjustment to get it timed correctly.  If not, a different plate or a fabbed plate will fix that.  The plate is the easy part now that we know the dizzy is a perfect fit!

[matti]

Top work! Your next project could be fitting A/C for Kenbagby to have a look at!:D

cheers

[IMH]

I'm the resident HVAC/MVAC tech here.  I've been looking into 320 A/C for a couple of years now.  Two problems.  Fisrt of all, you'd have to use a York style compressor (very inefficient!) mounted on high on the engine (like they did on the 1200's and B210's) because there's no room on the sides.  Second, there's no way to mount a belt without it running into the water pump or fan and even if you could, there's no room between the front of the engine and the radiator for double row pulleys if you could find a set that would work on a E1/J engine.  But I haven't given up on the idea.  The condensor an evaporator and receiver/drier are the easy part as are the hoses and I have a hose crimper and can make them any length or configuration but the compressor situation is the main problem.  Any suggestions?  I'm going to look into MGB aftermarket A/C (if they ever did that?) and see how they set those systems up. 

[71-521]

I'm no expert but it seems to me that it would make sense to switch pulleys and belt to a serpentine one that can power all the needed goodies...
it's just a matter of finding the right length and making the correct ratio pulleys...
I knew a guy in Vegas that was a whiz at this sort of thing....he put a serpentine belt on his motor to power a compressor for his air system....worked and looked really cool too!

[mklotz70]

Thanks.  As for A/C....the E1 is only temporary.  The EI dizzy was just a quickie, but since it turned out that it fit, it will stay  

I did pull an EI dizzy out of an A14 the other day.  I haven't checked it with the calipers yet, but the hole in the shaft(5th pic) is in a different location.  If you can redrill the hole, I think it might work.  But....the L series is definitely an easier fit if only for that reason.

[IMH]

Okay, someone direct me to serpentine pulleys and a belt tensioner that will fit a E1/J engine.

[mklotz70]

 I had messed up the links for the pics I originally posted by moving them to a diff folder....but this forum won't let me edit the original posting....so I'm going to repost it with the correct links and new updated pics of the completed mod.


This is partly an update, partly a test to see how this works [img]http://forum.ratsun.net/images/smilies/smile.gif[/img]


First, the stock dizzy.
[img]http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k162/ ... 1Alta1.jpg[/img]

Much different drive coupling than the L series dizzy. You can see the L series end in pic 7.
[img]http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k162/ ... 1Alta2.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k162/ ... 1Alta3.jpg[/img]


The L series has the "cup" around the end of the shaft. Some are plastic, some are metal, but they do the same thing.
[img]http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k162/ ... 1Alta4.jpg[/img]


Couplings removed off of each dizzy. Everything still looks pretty close [img]http://forum.ratsun.net/images/smilies/smile.gif[/img]
[img]http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k162/ ... 1Alta5.jpg[/img]


The slot wouldn't allow the bolt to go back in, so I had to file it just a bit...approx. 1/16"? You'll need the metric bolt from the EI dizzy since the stock one is SAE.  I did end up having to elongate the hole as much as possible to get the timing retarded.  I also put a larger flat washer on the bolt to span the slot better and hold the plate to the dizzy so that it couldn't flex and be pulled out any.
[img]http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k162/ ... 1Alta6.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k162/ ... 1Alta7.jpg[/img]


The stock drive coupling went back onto the EI dizzy very nicely [img]http://forum.ratsun.net/images/smilies/smile.gif[/img] There's a small amount of endplay(don't forget the shim or you'll have a lot!), but I don't think it's anymore or less than all dizzy's have.
[img]http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k162/ ... 1Alta8.jpg[/img]


Okay....here it is mounted up. The drive coupling engages....I'll have to measure how much, but I think it's close to 1/8"....so that should be plenty. The dizzy is in a different orientation than the stock one. It would be the same if the adj. plate could be flipped over. It has a raised area that goes over the adj screw. If I cut the plate or fab a new one, I can put the vac adv back on top.
[img]http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k162/ ... 1Alta9.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k162/ ... Altaa1.jpg[/img]


Okay.... I won't know how this turns out until I get the motor back in and fired up.....which won't be for a few weeks most likely.

****edit****

Okay...it's weeks later, but I thought I would squeeze the rest of the dizzy info into this post to keep it in one spot.

Works awesome!!!! Strongest spark I've ever seen!!

I ended up using a different EI dizzy since I couldn't get the vac adv to come out. Here's some pics of the tear down, glass beading, and then results. The only other thing I had to do was to go back and file the slot in the plate even more than I showed before. With all the adjustment retarded as far as possible, it still has the timing advanced to the last timing mark farthest from the TDC mark. That's okay...a little extra advance shouldn't hurt anything.
[img]http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k162/ ... P_6742.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k162/ ... P_6743.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k162/ ... P_6744.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k162/ ... P_6745.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k162/ ... P_6748.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k162/ ... P_6749.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k162/ ... P_6750.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k162/ ... P_6751.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k162/ ... P_6752.jpg[/img]