Electrical Question/Proposal

[Clatch]

I want to upgrade the cabin lights, so I bought 3 white neon tubes, one for the each foot well, and one center. Currently they are tapped into the cig lighter, so they come on when the key is turned over. I want them to come on like the small little halogen lights under the dash that normally come on when entering/exiting the vehicle. You now, when the door opens, alram unlocks, and when the alarm goes off, etc. But I want them to stay on after the ignition is on (they are hooked up to toggle switches, so I can turn them off manually), not go off, like the small cabin lights.

So I attempted to splice (for mockup, solder later) into the power and ground of those small little cabin lights and run extensions off those splices to the power and ground of the neon which is tapped into the cig lighter, which should give me the power when the door opens from the baterry. Then I thought, after the door closes and I turn on the car the switch kills the light, and the cig lighter power takes over keeping them on. Yet when I got it all finished the cabin light fuse kept on blowing, even after I put in a 30amp fuse. What do I need to do?

[corn322]

run power to the lights straight from the batter with it's own fuse, and turn them on and off with a relay triggered by the inside lights/cig lighter

[Clatch]

From http://www.radioshack.com/cate...earch , which relay do I need? Do I only need 1 relay, or 2?

[Silvia2b]

Probably just one will work. The bosch kind of single pull double throw 30amp capacity would be best you can get one at an auto parts store. You need to do as "corn322" suggested run a wire to the battery, fuse it within 12" of this connection with a waterproof fuse holder. Run all the way through the fire wall using an existing rubber grommet. But do not go between the edge of grommet and the fire wall, this can cause a short. This wire will supply the relay with 12v constant power you will connect to the terminal #30 on the relay. Terminal #87 will be the output to your lights. Ground the ground wire from the tranformer to a suitable ground on bare metal with a ring terminal and a self-tapping screw. The #85 V terminals are the coil sides of ther relay that need to be activated to switch on the lights. you can do this by connecting one to the gound and the other to power when both have a connection the 12v constant will flow through the relay from terminal 30 to 87 and the loghts will come on. So if you want the lights to come on when you open a door or the dome light comes on tap in to you dome light switch, this wire will have 12v when the door is closed, and rest near ground when the door is opened or the alarm is disarmed. The other of terminal 85 & 86 which ever you didn't connect to the dome light switch will need to supply the coil with 12v so you can just jump to the terminal 30 connector for 12v.

This is isn't realy all that complicated even if the discription above seems like it. If you need help just ask. OH yeah, DO NOT CHANGE THE SIZE OF FUSE IN THE FUSEBOX. This can aslo cause a short or melt wires inside of harness throughout the vehicle.

[PoorManQ45]

Did someone say electrical question? I'll help you out on that one. Now I'll just come down and help you out with it, But I need a picture of you first

Just playin'

Gimme a sec, I'll see what I can find.

[PoorManQ45]

Ok, I have a question first:

Do your lights flash when you set the alram, or the alarm goes off? If so, which ones? Interior, Headlights, Brake lights?

If the head lights flash, you can just draw power from them. This will give you all of what you are wanting. At night when you turn the head lights on, the tubes would come on. When the alarm goes off, the tubes would turn on and off with the lights too.

Hmm.. I don't know about having them turn on when the door is open . That's a little trickier.

[Clatch]

Probably just one will work. The bosch kind of single pull double throw 30amp capacity would be best you can get one at an auto parts store. You need to do as "corn322" suggested run a wire to the battery, fuse it within 12" of this connection with a waterproof fuse holder. Run all the way through the fire wall using an existing rubber grommet. But do not go between the edge of grommet and the fire wall, this can cause a short. This wire will supply the relay with 12v constant power you will connect to the terminal #30 on the relay. Terminal #87 will be the output to your lights. Ground the ground wire from the tranformer to a suitable ground on bare metal with a ring terminal and a self-tapping screw. The #85 V terminals are the coil sides of ther relay that need to be activated to switch on the lights. you can do this by connecting one to the gound and the other to power when both have a connection the 12v constant will flow through the relay from terminal 30 to 87 and the loghts will come on. So if you want the lights to come on when you open a door or the dome light comes on tap in to you dome light switch, this wire will have 12v when the door is closed, and rest near ground when the door is opened or the alarm is disarmed. The other of terminal 85 & 86 which ever you didn't connect to the dome light switch will need to supply the coil with 12v so you can just jump to the terminal 30 connector for 12v.

This is isn't realy all that complicated even if the discription above seems like it. If you need help just ask. OH yeah, DO NOT CHANGE THE SIZE OF FUSE IN THE FUSEBOX. This can aslo cause a short or melt wires inside of harness throughout the vehicle.

Alrihgt from what I gathered, I drew up this relay diagram. If obviously did not work, because it fried my music interface box (the power and ground to my lights, and almost fired my lights, before I pulled the relay. What connections did I make wrong, also this is on one relay, I now have two relays so I have mnore rooms to work.
Modified by Clatch at 6:44 PM 2/6/2005

[Clatch]

Somebody showed me this way too, which also didn't work, but powered the cig lighter constantly no matter if the car was on/off, or the door was open/closed.

[PoorManQ45]

The reason your cigarette lighter stays on is that you connected it directly to the door trigger. Which always gets power.

It appears that in the second diagram that the ground is directly connected to the power source!

What is the "87a" for?

[Clatch]

The 87a is the constant when the coil is uncharged. I figured out almost all of it, but I con't figure out how to not blow the cig lighter fuse when both the door and key is on. As you can see in the diagram, the cig and switch (+) fuse at one point, causing this, I don't know how to fix this. Help!

[Clatch]

The 87a is the constant when the coil is uncharged. I figured out almost all of it, but I con't figure out how to not blow the cig lighter fuse when both the door and key is on. As you can see in the diagram I tried to race the power in order of operations, but that didn't work, the cig and switch (+) fuse at one point, causing this, I don't know how to fix this. Help!

[PoorManQ45]

Ok, the wiring for the cigarette lighter fuse is probably 5 or 10amps. You are probably sending more then 10 amps through it when the door is open and key turned.

Eventhough it's not recommended, try changing to a 15 or 20 amp fuse

[Clatch]

I figured i out with this new diagram, but the obnly thing that desn't work correctly is the door part. Instead of the light coming on when the door open it goes off, and the light comes on when the door is closed. So essentially the door swith part is reversed. How do I fix this?

[PoorManQ45]

Hm.. That just sounds funny. Lights turn on when door closes. LOL

Hmm.. Try switching around the "86" and "87" connections.

[Clatch]

Lol, I figured it in the time between my last and your post. Well actually the guys at the12volt.com did. It turns out I was accounting for the negative door switch as a positive, so all I had to do was switch the 85 to power.

My fingers hurt from twisting wires .

[PoorManQ45]

That's cool, but you're a trader! . JK. I usually frequent http://www.the12volt.com , but I havn't been there lately.

Can you take some pics of the whole thing?

What's your name on the12volt? Mines Poormanq45

[Clatch]

Lol! Yeah, the guy at Autotronics referred me there, and seeing how not everyone is an electrical installer/electrical genius on NICO like 12volt (I'm not hating, just who would you rather get advise from, somebody who does this stuff for a living or somebody that just knows some stuff about it), I figured I'd better results at 12volt .

You should of asked me to take pictures before I zipped tied and tucked everything under the dash. Also, why would you want pictures, its just two relays with wires running out of them. But, don't worry, I did a crappy install, I kept having to rip the splices off, and re-do them, theres electrical tape covering bare wires, and the relays are ghetto zipped tied together. Sooo, I'm going to redo everything next weekend professionally, soldered and whatnot. I'm planing on making a Lexan box, probably like 3 inch by 5 inch to hold the relays. I'm going to have one bigass power connector running from the relays to one of the walls of the box. that way its quick connect. I'll probably have to Bondo the power connector from the relays to the Lexan box wall so its nice and smooth/sturdy. Where as the other end will harness the mess of wires from the power source etc; btw these wires will then be in platic loom tubing. I like everything perfect, on the final, install. Oh, yeah the relay box will be in the engine bay, instead of stashed under the dash, that way, I can get to it easier.

Modified by Clatch at 11:25 PM 2/7/2005OT: Hey, how do I get back into the aim NICO chat.
Modified by Clatch at 11:38 PM 2/7/2005

[PoorManQ45]

OT: Hey, how do I get back into the aim NICO chat.

It's not the same every night. You just have to be sent an invite. Or you can start your own chat and invite people.

You should of asked me to take pictures before I zipped tied and tucked everything under the dash. Also, why would you want pictures, its just two relays with wires running out of them.

I don't know, it's always nice to have a visual of the work.

Lol! Yeah, the guy at Autotronics referred me there, and seeing how not everyone is an electrical installer/electrical genius on NICO like 12volt (I'm not hating, just who would you rather get advise from, somebody who does this stuff for a living or somebody that just knows some stuff about it), I figured I'd better results at 12volt .

I agree.
Modified by PoorManQ45 at 8:13 PM 2/7/2005

[Dattebayo]

You could also have used LED's instead of neons which use alot less energy...

Just a thought.

[Clatch]

Led's spotlight which isn't a consistant beam. When I open the door the beam spreads all the way across the driveway which is nice, and you would never get that from an led.

[Silvia2b]

I'm glad you solved your dilemma; it seems I’m too late to be of help, after reading the previous posts I’m trying to figure where exactly things went wrong. What repairs were necessary to the vehicle after your first attempt? Sorry if something was messed up with my explanation it seemed o.k. when I read back over it. I have requests to do this sort lighting all the time. It only takes like 15 minutes to change it for customers, I usually charge $37.50 for the extra labor if I’m doing other gear at the same time and have availability on my schedule when they check-in for their appointments

[Arrow]

This might be asking a little much, but would you by chance be able to put up another drawing of how it ended up being wired? I think that it would be an interesting setup and many people might be able to learn from it and branch off and do some of their own things from your design

Awesome job though! Get some pictures of the final product for all of us on here.