Hey, instead of asking questions, I'm sharing some info. I haven't really read around any of the electric fan posts, but I just wanted to make sure everyone knew that on 240sx's, a 95 anyway, the electric fan has two relays...one to turn it on when you turn the a/c on, and one that turns it on like a regular electric fan, when the temp gets up high enough (thermostatically controlled.) If you don't believe me, take off the mechanical fan and go run it for a while, the fan will go on by itself. Don't waste your money on new electric fans when we have a perfectly good one already controlled by a thermostat to come once the water temp gets up high enough....If this is all old info, disregard this!
Marc:pface
Electric Fan info on an S14...
Sorry kid, that fan doesn't push enough air on a hot day in a hot climate to cool your car as it should be. Relying on the stock backup fan is fool's work. If you want to do it right and professionally wire up a nice 16 inch or dual 12 inch to run constantly, or to your own preset thermostat at a lower temp. Your car should operate between 175 and 210 all the time, if you rely on the stock fan you have to have it count on bumping you down from 210 which is the kick-off point. I pity you if you are going to try to run a turbo KA with a stock radiator and the itty-bitty stock fan wired to the stock wiring. Please do it right, the first time.
Well good lord, I didn't know the guy with a list of ghetto mods was appointed the ultimate authority on all that has to do with cars. I'm not relying on the backup fan, I'm saying what a lot of people DON'T know, that the fan will go on by itself when the temp gets to a certain point and the thermostat turns the fan on. The fan's not itty-bitty either, I wonder if one of your ghetto mods consists of removing the fan shroud to take a good look...it's rather large, and it flows a lot of air....The 95 KA's had the largest radiators too, btw, and my temp gauge hasn't jumped ONCE since running it on pretty fast rides without the stock mechanical fan...but again, this was just to test the electric fan, my mechanical fan is back on as we speak. The stock cooling system does a fine job of cooling the engine, even turbocharged. I have a thermostatically controlled oil-cooler too, something that I've yet to see on ANYONE'S turbo car in this forum, except for the ones who have the $800 greddy oil coolers with the SR20DET's.
When you turbocharge your car, you can cool it however you wish. I'm just disseminating some info that no one on these forums every told me: that the electric fan will turn on by itself w/o the AC.
BTW, you don't need a professional to wire up a simple fan and thermostat...sounds like someone's a check-book mechanic. :rolleyes
I don't appreciate your condescending remarks at all, kid.
When you turbocharge your car, you can cool it however you wish. I'm just disseminating some info that no one on these forums every told me: that the electric fan will turn on by itself w/o the AC.
BTW, you don't need a professional to wire up a simple fan and thermostat...sounds like someone's a check-book mechanic. :rolleyes
I don't appreciate your condescending remarks at all, kid.
BTW, it's useful to note that on three separate rides at 6 psi when the car was warmed up with out the mechanical fan, the electric fan didn't turn on ONCE until I let my car idle for a while in my garage. I live in the country in Northern CT...I don't have to worry about stop and go traffic, I have plenty of air flow to my car on my commute to work, which is all 65 mph roads.
Marc
Marc
Sorry chief, go get a separate temp probe and check your actual temperature. Between the stock 2nd and 3rd tick mark on your temp gauge there is a 65 degree difference from Nissan. I've checked it with 4 different coolant temp sensors and 2 aftermarket numerical systems. "Don't waste your money on electric fans" is a COMPLETELY assinine move, the stock fan measured less than 10inches in diameter on my S13. Dont' you think if the Nissan engineers thought one electric thermostatically controlled would turn it on and cool the stock car sufficiently they would have just had that one on and no mechanical. You've GOT to think logically. Just because YOUR roads aren't in overheating conditions doesn't mean most people's aren't.
Also, for your information, I'm an ASE technician. I give information that helps the average driver or even the performance driver for their advantage. Removing the mechanical fan without a proper replacement is a bad idea, period. Someone in a hotter climate or in worse traffic conditions could seriously damage their vehicle if this information was followed. It is fools work to give out information like that.
Checkbook mechanic is hardly the term. Smart buyer, goal oriented, budgeted, and logical, yes.
Next, a search for "electric fan" would have yielded ALL the information you originally stated, as well as a glance at any FSM. If people are looking for this kind of information it's been well documented by the veterans. Please use the search function.
Also, for your information, I'm an ASE technician. I give information that helps the average driver or even the performance driver for their advantage. Removing the mechanical fan without a proper replacement is a bad idea, period. Someone in a hotter climate or in worse traffic conditions could seriously damage their vehicle if this information was followed. It is fools work to give out information like that.
Checkbook mechanic is hardly the term. Smart buyer, goal oriented, budgeted, and logical, yes.
Next, a search for "electric fan" would have yielded ALL the information you originally stated, as well as a glance at any FSM. If people are looking for this kind of information it's been well documented by the veterans. Please use the search function.
Chief, you still maintain that I'm running the electric fan without the mechanical fan. I'm NOT. It's useless to buy another electric fan when your mechanical fan and the stock electrical fan work fine. Don't you think if Nissan engineers thought the stock mechanical and electrical fan weren't good enough for the 240 they'd have installed DUAL electric fans like the ones found on the SAME YEAR Altimas? Mine is 12", btw, and there are NO tick marks on the temp gauges for 240s as far as I know....
Every single electric fan post I read said NOTHING about the stock electric fan having 2 separate relays...hence the reason I posted it. BTW, one 16" fan wont come close to covering the whole radiator....why didn't you opt for dual 12" fans? If i were to go the essentially useless route of electric fans in hopes of freeing up all that lost HP (lol), I'd do it right and get the dual 12" setup, so at least my WHOLE radiator would be covered.
I had no idea you were an ASE tech, It's probably because I only hang around the turbo ka forum, which unfortunately no longer exists. My bad.
Oh well, in the end, I'm pushing 7 pounds and loving it. Are you?
Every single electric fan post I read said NOTHING about the stock electric fan having 2 separate relays...hence the reason I posted it. BTW, one 16" fan wont come close to covering the whole radiator....why didn't you opt for dual 12" fans? If i were to go the essentially useless route of electric fans in hopes of freeing up all that lost HP (lol), I'd do it right and get the dual 12" setup, so at least my WHOLE radiator would be covered.
I had no idea you were an ASE tech, It's probably because I only hang around the turbo ka forum, which unfortunately no longer exists. My bad.
Oh well, in the end, I'm pushing 7 pounds and loving it. Are you?
"Don't waste your money on new electric fans"
This CLEARLY indicated that you thought the stock one was sufficient. And it's not about covering the whole radiator. Think thermodynamics here. All you need do is cool the passing coolant, think about it. If it was important to cover the whole radiator with fans, your stock mechanical would need to be much larger. You must only pull air through the radiator in a sufficient area to cool several of the lengthwise tubes. I have two aftermarket gauges for temp in my vehicle at both the inlet and outlet of my radiator and even in 95 degree weather, in traffic, temperatures on the hot side NEVER rise above 180, which is even better than Nissan speculates it should run. If you ever look up a table from Fluidyne, Hayden, BECOOL, or Flex-A-Lite they specify a 16-inch fan for ANY sub-225hp car, or any vehicle under 3.0L. Dual 12s are suggested for turbocharged applications, as I have told every one of my customers. And every 91 and up non-HUD equipped 240 has a temperature gauge with tick marks. ALL OF THEM. Only HUD equipped units have the riser type gauge. Research and knowledge base is the key here.
The reasons for removing the stock mech fan are severalfold. First, the fluid in the clutch-type rotating unit has a tendency to wear out and have the fan be lit up all the time. This IS a large parasitic drag, as Nissan originally intended the fan to drastically decrease speed when the car was at speed and the engine was getting sufficient air passage. After about 6-8 years of wear these clutch type mech fans are usually going at full blast all the time, putting a large drag on your engine.
Second, anytime you take rotational mass off of an engine you free it up. Maybe not in actual power, but a lot of other variables are important too. After removing my stock mechanical fan and putting it on the Dynojet we found a mere 2hp increase, but several areas of the power and torque curves were flattened out, instead of spiking. I also timed several runs at WOT from one speed to another on the same ground, etc, and found an increase. Also, try changing belts and pulling the timing covers with that thing on. I can cut almost a half hour off every one of those jobs with it off, which is worth it.
Third, the stock thermostatically controlled unit is specified as a BACKUP ONLY according to Nissan. You just plain shouldn't rely on that fan for any kind of cooling aside from A/C related. It's meant to come on 10 degrees before Nissan says the engine is at a non-safe operating temperature. I personally, and in any work I do, would not want it getting that close before my unit decided to START working.
"In the end"......... is a non-issue here. It's best to argue within the issue, that's very tantamount to a "my dad could beat up your dad" statement. I'd expect better out of just about anyone, but with the state of things these days, who knows. Cmon, this is just plain good sense and logic here folks, let's get to the issues and the research and the numbers and the facts, not who happens to have 7lbs of boost and who doesn't. My cars and what they have is my business and mine alone. Have fun with your 7lbs, and I'll have fun with my logic and good reason.
This CLEARLY indicated that you thought the stock one was sufficient. And it's not about covering the whole radiator. Think thermodynamics here. All you need do is cool the passing coolant, think about it. If it was important to cover the whole radiator with fans, your stock mechanical would need to be much larger. You must only pull air through the radiator in a sufficient area to cool several of the lengthwise tubes. I have two aftermarket gauges for temp in my vehicle at both the inlet and outlet of my radiator and even in 95 degree weather, in traffic, temperatures on the hot side NEVER rise above 180, which is even better than Nissan speculates it should run. If you ever look up a table from Fluidyne, Hayden, BECOOL, or Flex-A-Lite they specify a 16-inch fan for ANY sub-225hp car, or any vehicle under 3.0L. Dual 12s are suggested for turbocharged applications, as I have told every one of my customers. And every 91 and up non-HUD equipped 240 has a temperature gauge with tick marks. ALL OF THEM. Only HUD equipped units have the riser type gauge. Research and knowledge base is the key here.
The reasons for removing the stock mech fan are severalfold. First, the fluid in the clutch-type rotating unit has a tendency to wear out and have the fan be lit up all the time. This IS a large parasitic drag, as Nissan originally intended the fan to drastically decrease speed when the car was at speed and the engine was getting sufficient air passage. After about 6-8 years of wear these clutch type mech fans are usually going at full blast all the time, putting a large drag on your engine.
Second, anytime you take rotational mass off of an engine you free it up. Maybe not in actual power, but a lot of other variables are important too. After removing my stock mechanical fan and putting it on the Dynojet we found a mere 2hp increase, but several areas of the power and torque curves were flattened out, instead of spiking. I also timed several runs at WOT from one speed to another on the same ground, etc, and found an increase. Also, try changing belts and pulling the timing covers with that thing on. I can cut almost a half hour off every one of those jobs with it off, which is worth it.
Third, the stock thermostatically controlled unit is specified as a BACKUP ONLY according to Nissan. You just plain shouldn't rely on that fan for any kind of cooling aside from A/C related. It's meant to come on 10 degrees before Nissan says the engine is at a non-safe operating temperature. I personally, and in any work I do, would not want it getting that close before my unit decided to START working.
"In the end"......... is a non-issue here. It's best to argue within the issue, that's very tantamount to a "my dad could beat up your dad" statement. I'd expect better out of just about anyone, but with the state of things these days, who knows. Cmon, this is just plain good sense and logic here folks, let's get to the issues and the research and the numbers and the facts, not who happens to have 7lbs of boost and who doesn't. My cars and what they have is my business and mine alone. Have fun with your 7lbs, and I'll have fun with my logic and good reason.
You should be a lawyer, I'm sure you never use polysyllabic words to the common customer who wants an oil change... 
I had no idea it turned on 10 degrees before the max operating temperature of the engine; that's all you had to say...Had I known that, I never would have asserted that it offered sufficient cooling. The reason I flipped is because you came off very officiously and condescendingly...two attributes I hate in anyone, acting as if I've never done a thing to my car or have any working sense of it...that's a personal insult.
My 17 years have yielded little what I'd refer to as wisdom, but I'm still better off than most teenagers when it comes to car knowledge. Not better than an ASE tech, however.
I guess you have a different definition of tick marks than I do...there's a "low" tick mark, and 2 ones about 1/4" apart near the "high" side of the gauge. Nothing in between, I wish it did.
I understand the reasons for removing the stock fan, trust me, it's the same logic for upgrading to lighter pulleys, although I care not of 2 hp when I've got plenty of boost to back up such parasitic losses although such modifications would yield quicker spool time.
Just as your cars and what you do to them are your business, similarly, they're mine and only mine as well. I'll do as I wish, and I guarantee you I'd never be negligent to the only thing I really care for.
The whole purpose of this post was to let people know that the fan had two relays and turned on by itself...now that I know it turns on TOO late (even though my temp gauge has never fluctuated since taking off the mech. fan), this is useless information. Therefore, as a useless post, I'd hope a mod would delete it....
I apologize for disseminating deceiving information.
I had no idea it turned on 10 degrees before the max operating temperature of the engine; that's all you had to say...Had I known that, I never would have asserted that it offered sufficient cooling. The reason I flipped is because you came off very officiously and condescendingly...two attributes I hate in anyone, acting as if I've never done a thing to my car or have any working sense of it...that's a personal insult.
My 17 years have yielded little what I'd refer to as wisdom, but I'm still better off than most teenagers when it comes to car knowledge. Not better than an ASE tech, however.
I guess you have a different definition of tick marks than I do...there's a "low" tick mark, and 2 ones about 1/4" apart near the "high" side of the gauge. Nothing in between, I wish it did.
I understand the reasons for removing the stock fan, trust me, it's the same logic for upgrading to lighter pulleys, although I care not of 2 hp when I've got plenty of boost to back up such parasitic losses although such modifications would yield quicker spool time.
Just as your cars and what you do to them are your business, similarly, they're mine and only mine as well. I'll do as I wish, and I guarantee you I'd never be negligent to the only thing I really care for.
The whole purpose of this post was to let people know that the fan had two relays and turned on by itself...now that I know it turns on TOO late (even though my temp gauge has never fluctuated since taking off the mech. fan), this is useless information. Therefore, as a useless post, I'd hope a mod would delete it....
I apologize for disseminating deceiving information.
