Electoral versus Popular Vote

[szh]

Whoa Z, the EC votes the will of the people, not their own will. Other than missing that point...

I did not miss that point at all. Hamilton effectively stated quite blatantly that the people were too dumb to decide, so an Electoral College had to do it for them - which pretty much meant they would do as they wished. No "will of the people" in his viewpoint.

You entirely missed mine: in this day and age, when the "will of the people" (using your words) can be measured directly and quickly enough, and we can no longer support the elitist view that the "people" are too dumb to decide for themselves, the Electoral College is a completely archaic anachronism that should be drop-kicked as hard and as far as possible.

Hope that is clear enough!

Z

[ishkabibble]

I'm for the popular vote. Under the Electoral system, my vote doesn't count if the rest of the state I'm in votes for someone I didn't.

One example: DC always votes Democrat by a massive margin. There is no point whatsoever for a Republican to go to the polls in D.C.

[srellim234]

OT, but likewise there is no reason for a Democrat to go to the polls anywhere in the country if Obama doesn't have at least a 4% lead. Diebold has taken care of that.

[telcoman]

It's part of what makes this country so great - you can find some place in America that suits you.

Like in New Jersey

[AZhitman]

I'm for the popular vote. Under the Electoral system, my vote doesn't count if the rest of the state I'm in votes for someone I didn't.

One example: DC always votes Democrat by a massive margin. There is no point whatsoever for a Republican to go to the polls in D.C.

Well-said. It's past due.

[HashiriyaS14]

Conservatives pressing for a switch to the popular vote should reconsider.

If the Dems can ever solve their turnout problem, the major cities of this nation hold enough left/center-leaning people to override every rural conservative vote in this nation for the next century.

I know McCain is leading in the popular vote right now, but that's because both camps are geared to play towards an electoral strategy. It doesn't help Obama to get out every last single vote in New York, DC, LA, or similar places. If he actually did that, the Dems would CRUSH the popular vote every four years.

Be careful what you wish for, guys.

In a "popular vote" election, the Democrats would never go to Rural Ohio. They wouldn't waste the money, they would press for huge urban turnout in, say, Houston, Dallas, and New Orleans, where it doesn't make any sense for them to fight now. The way races are run would totally change, and the executive branch would be blue essentially forever.

[szh]

Conservatives pressing for a switch to the popular vote should reconsider.

If the Dems can ever solve their turnout problem, the major cities of this nation hold enough left/center-leaning people to override every rural conservative vote in this nation for the next century.

Maybe. But:

A. I think it would be good for the country to be that way for a while and realize what problems it has for everybody.

B. It is still the fair thing to do in this day and age, Particularly if t can be combined with direct vote and direct input from the people towards any issue.

C. Many other democracies do it this way and it works for them. It should work out in the long run for us.

So, I don't think it is that dire ... certainly not for long!

Z

[HashiriyaS14]

Maybe. But:

A. I think it would be good for the country to be that way for a while and realize what problems it has for everybody.

B. It is still the fair thing to do in this day and age, Particularly if t can be combined with direct vote and direct input from the people towards any issue.

C. Many other democracies do it this way and it works for them. It should work out in the long run for us.

So, I don't think it is that dire ... certainly not for long!

Z

Oh, I don't dispute for one instant that it isn't the fair thing to do. I completely agree that it is both fair and that it would work.

I just want to stress that what is fair isn't necessarily what is most advantageous for all parties. Just because McCain currently leads the popular vote doesn't mean that he would be winning in a real election structured in that way.

[SteveTheTech]

This is a great debate.

P Diddy stressed the "Vote or Die"campaign in 04, I really don't think that him and many other people get how the actual process works.

Technology has basically outdated the need for an electoral college. I no means am I calling for an over haul of the system since the likelihood of that is laughable.

I think changing the system would give the average American a feeling that their vote actually counted for something.

[Urabus GodofTraction]

Whoa Z, the EC votes the will of the people, not their own will. Other than missing that point...

*Bzzzt* They can vote however they wish. It's called a faithless elector, and it's legal in roughly half the states.

Interesting fact: the representatives of the EC are popularly elected.

Removing it would really shake things up. I'm unable to tell if it would be for the better.

[NMI]

"By the people, for the people"...lose the electoral system and count each vote individually. It makes no sense to me that we wouldn't have adopted this stance years ago.

The people should be the deciding factor...always. I place no amount of faith in the electoral system what so ever.

WD

I could not have said it better myself.

[APEXi240]

I'm for the popular vote. Under the Electoral system, my vote doesn't count if the rest of the state I'm in votes for someone I didn't.

One example: DC always votes Democrat by a massive margin. There is no point whatsoever for a Republican to go to the polls in D.C.

Same goes for New Jersey. That is why I don't even bother to vote. My vote does not count. Even county and municipal elections are pointless for me to cast my vote.

If we do away with the electoral college I can't say it would be for the better or for the worse, but we deserve less government and a more direct democracy.

[Jesda]

I favor the electoral system. Its a product of the US being a union of individual states. We are people of states first, the federal government second. I want my state to choose its president.